Venerating Holy Protestant Christians as Saints

[mrsdizzyd]

The USCCB considers MLK a Christian Martyr (and by extension a Catholic Saint):

Martin Luther King Jr. at top of Vatican's martyrs list | Christianity Today

Your source does not say he was declared a martyr. There is a very specific process for declaring someone a martyr in the Catholic Church.

You need to be more careful with the terms you are using.

Then explain to me Sts. Gregory Palamas and Gregory of Narek?

St. Gregory Palamas was canonized by the Orthodox and is recognized by Byzantine Catholics who are in communion with Rome.

St. Gregory of Narek lived before the schism. We share many saints with the orthodox especially before the schism.

This information is easily available online.

 

[meltzerboy2]

Neither Catholics nor Jews can claim they know who is in heaven and who is not, with the exception of sainthood bestowed by the Church. So we cannot say it is “dubious” whether MLK is in heaven.

 

[ChristMyLife]

Rather than pray to them, we should pray for them. Pray that they received final repentance and that

I do both.

Since I don’t have the Church’s infallible insurance that they are in Heaven, I say “Lord Jesus have mercy on and bless MLK; St. MLK ora pro nobis.”

And using “saint” not as an official Church-bestowed title, but as a word representing the ontological fact that all souls in heaven are Saints.

 

[ChristMyLife]

St. Gregory of Narek lived before the schism. We share many saints with the orthodox especially before the schism.

St. Gregory of Narek belonged to the Armenian Orthodox, which have been in schism from Rome since the 5th century.

He is a post-Schism non-Catholic Doctor of the Catholic Church.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

But some Anglo-Catholics who held to basically all Catholic doctrines (Lewis, Underhill and Sadhu) and never preached against Catholicism or taught open heresy, or Christians who died as martyrs after living “mere Christianity” like the Coptic Martyrs and MLK - these I believe are Saints.

My question would be, how do you know they did not preach against Catholicism, if they were protestant? Why did they not become Catholic, especially if they had nothing bad to say about it?

It is also not our place to declare any one a saint. That alone is reserved for the Church. We are to pray for the souls of the deceased. We do not know who is in heaven. These people would appreciate it much more if you would pray for them, for the repose of their souls. Many souls in purgatory have no one to pray for them and it could be that they are suffering.

Then pray to the Saints of the Catholic Church.

 

[Cruciferi]

Canonization for the 1st thousand years of the Church was by popular veneration

This is TODAY.

the cult of a saint still plays an important role in the canonization of them today.

For those who’re Catholic.

The Catholic Church in the year 2000 recognised MLK as a martyr.

This was not a declaration of Sainthood.

Pope Francis declared St. Gregory of Narek a Doctor of the Church a few years ago - but he wasn’t Catholic, he was Armenian Orthodox.

Yes, that was controversial. His Church was in Schism; however, I’m pretty sure that they had Apostolic Succession and valid Sacraments.

The USCCB considers MLK a Christian Martyr (and by extension a Catholic Saint):

READ

“The Vatican has collected the names of more than 12,000 martyrs from churches around the world, to be submitted for the pope’s consideration by the end of the year. The campaign is separate from any individual lobbying in behalf of would-be Catholic saints.”

“The Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., the slain American civil rights leader who was a Baptist minister, is on the unfinished list, which has not been published.”

every bit as much God’s Children as even St. Peter himself.

Being God’s child doesn’t equal Canonization or prove that they lived a Life of Heroic Virtue.

Rather than pray to them, we should pray for them.

Yes. This is Right and Proper.

 

[ChristMyLife]

It is also not our place to declare any one a saint. That alone is reserved for the Church. We are to pray for the souls of the deceased. We do not know who is in heaven. These people would appreciate it much more if you would pray for them, for the repose of their souls. Many souls in purgatory have no one to pray for them and it could be that they are suffering.

Such a view shows a fundamental lack of understanding in the cults of saints.

A regrettable effect of the modern Church canonization process…

I DO pray for them, but I also beseech their prayers, and there is nothing wrong with doing that.

 

[meltzerboy2]

Fair enough. I just interpreted the word “dubious” as meaning doubtful.

 

[ChristMyLife]

Yes. This is Right and Proper.

I concur.

I don’t see anything wrong with praying for them and then beseeching their prayers.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

Such a view shows a fundamental lack of understanding in the cults of saints.

A regrettable effect of the modern Church canonization process…

I DO pray for them, but I also beseech their prayers, and there is nothing wrong with doing that.

I am not saying you can’t pray to them. You certainly can but you do not know that they are in heaven and that is not a modern thought. The modern theology is what says all are in heaven and all religions are equal.

My biggest problem with your whole post is putting them up against great Catholic saints. People who lived and died, shed their blood for Christ’s Church.

And again, you do not know they did not preach against the Catholic church. You do not know they did not lead anyone out of the Catholic Church.

I am an ex- protestant and I can tell you, I (regrettably now) and other protestants I knew at that time worked hard but quietly to bring people out of the Catholic church.

 

[semper_catholicus]

Just out of curiosity, what would you think of the faithful generation Archbp. Lefebvre?

 

[ChristMyLife]

My biggest problem with your whole post is putting them up against great Catholic saints. People who lived and died, shed their blood for Christ’s Church.

And again, how do you know they did not preach against the Catholic church? How do you know they did not lead anyone out of the Catholic Church?

I have no reason to believe they ever preached anti-Catholicism or drew people out of the Church, and every reason to believe they preached the Gospel of Christ.

The Catholic Church contains the fullness of the Christian revelation, but the Gospel is quite simple. It is possible (though more difficult) to live a Christian life without being in full visible communion with the Catholic Church.

Technically it’s possible to preach the Gospel to a remote island community who never build a Church or attend Mass in their entire life but yet who live as Christians and end up in heaven.

 

[ChristMyLife]

Just out of curiosity, what would you think of the faithful generation Archbp. Lefebvre?

I have no problem with praying for him and asking his prayers, as he was clearly devoted to Christ and love of his Church and is most likely in heaven or on his way there.

Although to be honest, from what I can see, it appears that Sadhu and CS Lewis led holier lives than Abp. Lefebvre…

I’d be more inclined personally to think CS Lewis would be in heaven before His Excellency.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

reason to believe they preached the Gospel of Christ.

Similar to what someone else said, preaching the Gospel of Christ, is preaching the Catholic faith.

I will pray for their souls also and that God granted them final reprentance.

God bless.

 

[ChristMyLife]

preaching the Gospel of Christ, is preaching the Catholic faith.

In its fullness I would agree.

But I’d disagree that a holy Eastern Orthodox person or Anglo-Catholic evangelist isn’t preaching the Gospel of Christ…

 

[ChristMyLife]

What’s not Christ-like is failing to belong to His Church.

What’s not Christ-like is belonging to His Church and not embodying the Life of the Master and being an Image of Christ on Earth.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

But I’d disagree that a holy Eastern Orthodox person or Anglo-Catholic evangelist isn’t preaching the Gospel of Christ…

How can they preach the Gospel if they are not including the Church Jesus spoke of in the Gospel. I am not saying they did not live the Christian faith as they best knew but the Gospel has to include the Church.

What’s not Christ-like is belonging to His Church and not embodying the Life of the Master and being an Image of Christ on Earth.

That is probably a new topic.

 

[ChristMyLife]

ow can they preach the Gospel if they are not including the Church

They can preach a type of the Gospel I suppose would be a better way of saying that. The fullness of the revelation of the Gospel belongs to the Church and contains the Church.

The Gospel is a living Person, Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ is Love.

Technically anyone doing acts of self-giving love are doing acts of the Gospel, and anyone preaching peace and love are preaching an aspect of the Gospel.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

They can preach a type of the Gospel I suppose would be a better way of saying that. The fullness of the revelation of the Gospel belongs to the Church and contains the Church.

The Gospel is a living Person, Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ is Love.

Technically anyone doing acts of self-giving love are doing acts of the Gospel, and anyone preaching peace and love are preaching an aspect of the Gospel.

I would agree with this. It would be an aspect or part of the Gospel. Protestantism can preach a part of the Gospel but sometimes those parts by virtue of what they are not saying is a type of preaching against the Church.

I believe there is good in everyone and everyone can do good and be self sacrificing but that would not mean they have attained or will attain salvation upon their death.

I agree also that Jesus is a living person. He is love. He is also the Bridegroom and the Catholic Church is the Bride. The Church was given to us for our salvation and so like I said I agree that they would be preaching a part of the Gospel.

God bless.

 

[ChristMyLife]

believe there is good in everyone and everyone can do good and be self sacrificing but that would not mean they have attained or will attain salvation upon their death.

I agree also that Jesus is a living person. He is love. He is also the Bridegroom and the Catholic Church is the Bride. The Church was given to us for our salvation and so like I said I agree that they would be preaching a part of the Gospel.

God bless.

I think me and you have reached a mutual understanding.