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Namaskar
Guest
I stumbled upon Luke 11:27-28 some time ago and to me it seems to challenge the veneration of Mary. I’ve done some research and haven’t come up with any solid answers thus far. Any thoughts?
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thistle
Guest
Well you have lost me. How does that challenge the veneration of Mary?
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Joe_Kelley
Guest
Do you not believe that Mary satisfied the condition
You might also consider the prophecy Of Luke 1:46-48
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
The translation of “On the contrary” is a faulty one.
The accurate translation was “Yes, and additionally”.
IOW, Jesus not only acknowledged that His Mother was blessed. . .but that all those who heard the word of God and obeyed would be blessed as well.
The accurate translation was “Yes, and additionally”.
IOW, Jesus not only acknowledged that His Mother was blessed. . .but that all those who heard the word of God and obeyed would be blessed as well.
Not just that, but the Gospels also tell us that Mary is blessed BECAUSE she listened and believed to the word of God. It is PRECISELY because of Luke 11:27ff that we venerate Mary, not because she bore and nursed Jesus, but most especially because she listened to God and said yes to him.
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MDK
Guest
A solid suggestion is to stop protesting the Church built by Christ. Otherwise, you will continue to experience the troubles of sola scriptura and right of private interpretation. How can one truly know our Lord, if one misunderstands either oral or written Tradition? Ignorance of the Bible is ignorance of Christ. Ever hear a televangelist or Billy Graham claim infallibility? They cannot do so without lying.
The Catholic Church is the only entity guaranteed to teach the truth about Christ, with sacred oral and written Tradition. Only the Catholic Church can claim to teach without error in faith and morals.
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twb1621
Guest
In this context, it is more suitable to say, …”blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it". Jesus was at the time teaching the crowd and considering our Holy Mother was without sin, He was placing more emphasis on those whom He was proclaiming the word of God to and who would repent in observance of it. This in fact does not challenge anything of her veneration.
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Namaskar
Guest
I appreciate all of your (name removed by moderator)ut, and this is much clearer to me. Please note that this was not an attempted ‘protest’ against the Church. I only wanted to voice a question to which my own efforts had not produced an answer. Thanks all 
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MDK
Guest
To be protesting doesn’t automatically require signs standing on a street corner. Are you following the doctrine of those who protested it and built man-made churches? Are you interpreting the Bible written by Catholics and intended for the faithful under the infallible protection of the Catholic Church? If you’re not in the Church built by Christ for all believers, call it what you want, but it’s not acceptance… whether a conscious decision or just by indoctrination.I appreciate all of your (name removed by moderator)ut, and this is much clearer to me. Please note that this was not an attempted ‘protest’ against the Church. I only wanted to voice a question to which my own efforts had not produced an answer. Thanks all
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JMJ_coder
Guest
Hello,
In this passage, Jesus is not reproaching His Mother, or slighting her - as some would suggest. Rather, He is telling us that blood relations are not what is important. It doesn’t matter if you are a relative of Jesus - as if that were something to boast about. What is important is to hear the Word of God and obey.
And this is exactly what Mary did and does to this day. It is precisely because she was immaculately conceived and sinless, because she listened to the Word of God and obeyed that she was able to freely give her assent, her fiat to God and conceive of Christ in her womb. The Father of the Church said that Mary conceived Jesus in her heart before ever conceiving Him in her womb.
In this passage, Jesus is not reproaching His Mother, or slighting her - as some would suggest. Rather, He is telling us that blood relations are not what is important. It doesn’t matter if you are a relative of Jesus - as if that were something to boast about. What is important is to hear the Word of God and obey.
And this is exactly what Mary did and does to this day. It is precisely because she was immaculately conceived and sinless, because she listened to the Word of God and obeyed that she was able to freely give her assent, her fiat to God and conceive of Christ in her womb. The Father of the Church said that Mary conceived Jesus in her heart before ever conceiving Him in her womb.
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jean8
Guest
namaskar,
You really should have more than one verse to support your comment.
In Lu.1:43 we find Elizabeth being filled with the Holy Spirit. She says to Mary, :In a loud voice, “But why am I so favored , that the mother of my Lord should come to me. 44. as soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy.” (John the Baptist was that baby) I believe John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit at that moment.
What do you think?
Please read the entire story from verse, Lu1: 26-45
God bless,
jean8
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turtle18
Guest
I think He is saying that the reason his mother is blessed is because she does the will of God–that the state of her spiritual soul is what causes her to be blessed not her physical capabilities.
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mild7
Guest
I know this is an old thread, and may have already been debated heavily in others.
But I felt compelled to sign up and post here.
The answer to this problem can be clearly found in Luke 1:38 where Mary says, “behold the handmaid of the Lord, be it unto me according to thy WORD”.
So when Jesus says in Luke 11:28 “blessed are they that hear the WORD of God, and keep it”, he is not putting down his mother.
In fact, it is Jesus himself honoring Mary… because indeed, she heard the WORD, and kept it, despite it being revealed by Simeon that her soul would be pierced also (Luke 2:35).
Everything is in scripture, but the key is to read and put things in context.
But I felt compelled to sign up and post here.
The answer to this problem can be clearly found in Luke 1:38 where Mary says, “behold the handmaid of the Lord, be it unto me according to thy WORD”.
So when Jesus says in Luke 11:28 “blessed are they that hear the WORD of God, and keep it”, he is not putting down his mother.
In fact, it is Jesus himself honoring Mary… because indeed, she heard the WORD, and kept it, despite it being revealed by Simeon that her soul would be pierced also (Luke 2:35).
Everything is in scripture, but the key is to read and put things in context.
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alpharomeo3
Guest
Well Adam came from the ground and eve came from the side of him Jesus came from heaven and through his mother’s womb Adam & Eve where our first parents Adam calls eve mother in Genesis 3:20 Now the man called his wife’s name Eve, because she was the mother of all the living. They brought death and original sin to all man.
Christ sacrifice on the cross eliminates sin and final death Mary besides being Christ mother is our spiritual mother not by mere blood relationship to Christ but my her obedience to the lord she first had a vow of purity to remain a virgin and said yes to the angel Gabriel without that yes there would be no salvation the exact opposite to eve’s yes to sin. this is very important to understand if eve had said no there would be know sin period but since mary said yes to god the road to salvation can be had.
God and the Church didn’t leave out woman in this very important salvation plan.
The bible is very well written all good books have symmetry all artist can be seen by their works and the bible is God’s fingerprints left for us to know him.
I would suggest to anyone to read the bible in its entirety not just to stick to the new testament but rather like a historian reading a novel about clues to our history.
Christ sacrifice on the cross eliminates sin and final death Mary besides being Christ mother is our spiritual mother not by mere blood relationship to Christ but my her obedience to the lord she first had a vow of purity to remain a virgin and said yes to the angel Gabriel without that yes there would be no salvation the exact opposite to eve’s yes to sin. this is very important to understand if eve had said no there would be know sin period but since mary said yes to god the road to salvation can be had.
God and the Church didn’t leave out woman in this very important salvation plan.
The bible is very well written all good books have symmetry all artist can be seen by their works and the bible is God’s fingerprints left for us to know him.
I would suggest to anyone to read the bible in its entirety not just to stick to the new testament but rather like a historian reading a novel about clues to our history.
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PJM
Guest
This verse in no way lessens the veneration due to Mary; the Mother of God. Rather Jesus is saying that as HIGHLY venerated as Mary is; one who LIKE MARY Knows, Loves and Serves God is ALSO worthy of recogination from God because they freely accomplished this as did Mary;** BUT with far less grace.**
The second point made in the verse in question points out that God always comes before Mary; and Godly Worship is of GREATER value than veneration to Mary or the Saints.
Love and prayers,
Pat
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composer
Guest
The VENERATION by Catholics towards Mary is counted as a sin of ’ IDOLATROUS WORSHIP / SINFUL WORSHIP ’
Proof: -
Word Origin & History
veneration
early 15c., from M.Fr. veneration , from L. venerationem (nom. veneratio ) “reverence,” from venerari “to worship, revere,” from venus (gen. veneris ) “beauty, love, desire” (see Venus). (Source: dictionary.reference.com/browse/veneration)
Proof: -
Word Origin & History
veneration
early 15c., from M.Fr. veneration , from L. venerationem (nom. veneratio ) “reverence,” from venerari “to worship, revere,” from venus (gen. veneris ) “beauty, love, desire” (see Venus). (Source: dictionary.reference.com/browse/veneration)
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pablope
Guest
Why do you say it is wrong? By what authority do you declare it as such?
So by your declaration, all those billions, those christians before you who venerated Mary are all condemned?
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codeyrolley
Guest
Agreed and Jesus was just saying not only the mother but, ‘blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it’ including the mother.
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Mintaka
Guest
composer –
I hate to be the one to break this to you, but not all dictionaries are created equal. Or rather, not all etymological linguistic research is created equal. This shows up a lot in dictionaries, but only because people have misread Lewis and Short.
The association of “veneration” with “Venus” is not that of child and mother, but rather of cousins descended from a similar group of words. (Other cousins are Sanskrit “vankh”, pray, and Old English “wunsc”, wish.)
But “venus, venustas” means lovely or charming (the kind of woman you’d wish to meet, maybe, or the sort of beauty that awes you), and “veneror” means to give honor or worship to someone worthy of it, like a wise old Roman man or the gods in general. (A wise old man being supposed to awe you with his experience and insight, for example, not that he awes you into thinking he’s a god.)
The Early Christians used it the same way – honor for humans and worship for God. “Veneranter” (with veneration, reverently) was a favorite adjective for how the Christians adored and worshipped God. (So it doesn’t really behoove a Christian to ride the Venus theory-pony.)
For example, here’s a bit about the Ascension from Sedulius’ “Carmen Paschale” (Easter Song). He’s 5th century.
Illi autem lætis cernentes vultibus, altas
Ire super nubes Dominum, tractusque coruscos
Vestigiis calcare suis, veneranter adorant…"
“But they with rejoicing faces, seeing high
Above the clouds the Lord walk, treading the place
with His footsteps flashing, adore venerantly.”
Over time, technical theological meanings have been adopted for words that were essentially synonyms back in the Roman Empire. So the idea of veneration being a technical term for honors done to good people has become more prominent.
Of course, if you’re determined to misread a word, you’re free to misuse it, too. And you’re free never to do anything on Viernes or Vendredi (dies Veneris, aka Friday, or Frigga’s Day), because it really is named after Venus.
(Though it probably came over from Babylonian, Sumerian, or Indian weekday systems, them being the big astronomy folks. So it’s really another pagan goddess representing similar concepts and planet, but who’s counting?)
I hate to be the one to break this to you, but not all dictionaries are created equal. Or rather, not all etymological linguistic research is created equal. This shows up a lot in dictionaries, but only because people have misread Lewis and Short.
The association of “veneration” with “Venus” is not that of child and mother, but rather of cousins descended from a similar group of words. (Other cousins are Sanskrit “vankh”, pray, and Old English “wunsc”, wish.)
But “venus, venustas” means lovely or charming (the kind of woman you’d wish to meet, maybe, or the sort of beauty that awes you), and “veneror” means to give honor or worship to someone worthy of it, like a wise old Roman man or the gods in general. (A wise old man being supposed to awe you with his experience and insight, for example, not that he awes you into thinking he’s a god.)
The Early Christians used it the same way – honor for humans and worship for God. “Veneranter” (with veneration, reverently) was a favorite adjective for how the Christians adored and worshipped God. (So it doesn’t really behoove a Christian to ride the Venus theory-pony.)
For example, here’s a bit about the Ascension from Sedulius’ “Carmen Paschale” (Easter Song). He’s 5th century.
Illi autem lætis cernentes vultibus, altas
Ire super nubes Dominum, tractusque coruscos
Vestigiis calcare suis, veneranter adorant…"
“But they with rejoicing faces, seeing high
Above the clouds the Lord walk, treading the place
with His footsteps flashing, adore venerantly.”
Over time, technical theological meanings have been adopted for words that were essentially synonyms back in the Roman Empire. So the idea of veneration being a technical term for honors done to good people has become more prominent.
Of course, if you’re determined to misread a word, you’re free to misuse it, too. And you’re free never to do anything on Viernes or Vendredi (dies Veneris, aka Friday, or Frigga’s Day), because it really is named after Venus.
(Though it probably came over from Babylonian, Sumerian, or Indian weekday systems, them being the big astronomy folks. So it’s really another pagan goddess representing similar concepts and planet, but who’s counting?)
M
Mintaka
Guest
(And of course, it does no Christian any harm to use weekday and month names drawn from the names of old pagan gods. They are the “spoils of the Egyptians”, or in this case, the Romans and the Greeks. If anything, their presence in the Christian world is a reminder of Christ’s triumph over false gods and the way He changed the world.)
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