Veneration Question

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memphian

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Hi,

An exact replica of the cloth made by the Blessed Virgin shown to St. Juan Diego is being shown in the parishes of my diocese. As a former Protestant, I admit I was taken back when I read that there will be veneration of the replica. I understand veneration of the actual cloth (if I were visiting in Mexico, for example), but I am puzzled by veneration of a replica. I would like to go and see it, but in my “formerly Protestant mind”, this seems to take it a bit far. Would someone please explain? By the way, I don’t mind revealing the diocese - San Antonio Texas.
 
Well,

Don’t confuse reverence with adoration. I don’t see any thing wrong to go pay respect to a copy of the image of the Patron Saint of the Americas…

Many people have the image of the blessed heart of Jesus, or a patron Saint, the Virgin Mary at home, they bring or should bring to our attention the love of GOD for us. And we pray or ask them to ask GOD on our behalf.

Now if you can make a pilgrimage to the Basilica and venerate the real thing that would even be better. Who knows maybe if you see the “copy” you might decide to do the pilgrimage…
 
JerryZ said:
Well,

Don’t confuse reverence with adoration. I don’t see any thing wrong to go pay respect to a copy of the image of the Patron Saint of the Americas…

Many people have the image of the blessed heart of Jesus, or a patron Saint, the Virgin Mary at home, they bring or should bring to our attention the love of GOD for us. And we pray or ask them to ask GOD on our behalf.

Now if you can make a pilgrimage to the Basilica and venerate the real thing that would even be better. Who knows maybe if you see the “copy” you might decide to do the pilgrimage…
Click to expand...
👍

But to clarify:
And we pray or ask them to ask GOD on our behalf.
Click to expand...
As Catholics, we do not pray to the statue or image, we pray to the individual that these holy images represent. Never to or thru the statue, picture, or item, always to and thru the actual Saint and our Lord Christ.
(ever notice, most Catholics start our prayers with “In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” and cross ourselves… it’s because we pray in our Lord’s name, even when we ask the Saints to pray for us :D)
 
And, images and sacramental are blessed, as they are set aside for a holy purpose.
 
JerryZ said:
Well,

Don’t confuse reverence with adoration. I don’t see any thing wrong to go pay respect to a copy of the image of the Patron Saint of the Americas…

Many people have the image of the blessed heart of Jesus, or a patron Saint, the Virgin Mary at home, they bring or should bring to our attention the love of GOD for us. And we pray or ask them to ask GOD on our behalf.

Now if you can make a pilgrimage to the Basilica and venerate the real thing that would even be better. Who knows maybe if you see the “copy” you might decide to do the pilgrimage…
Click to expand...
Thank you. I have pictures of our Lord and the Blessed Virgin which I respect. And of course, I don’t pray to the image, I pray to the Lord or ask our Mother to pray for me. Years ago I did want to go to the Basilica, but with the crime in Mexico, my wife and I decided against it.
I appreciate your answer. Looking at our Mass schedule, there will be Veneration of the Sacred Image, Litanies, Presentation of the Sacred Image, Presentation, Rosary/Veneration, Holy Hour/Veneration and a video on Our Lady of Guadalupe.

As mentioned, I am a former Protestant and still “knee jerk” occasionally. Thanks.
 
z_0101 said:
👍

But to clarify:
As Catholics, we do not pray to the statue or image, we pray to the individual that these holy images represent. Never to or thru the statue, picture, or item, always to and thru the actual Saint and our Lord Christ.
(ever notice, most Catholics start our prayers with “In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” and cross ourselves… it’s because we pray in our Lord’s name, even when we ask the Saints to pray for us :D)
Click to expand...
I understand we don’t pray to statues. My concern was veneration of a replica. However, being reminded many of us have replicas in our homes seemed to help.

Any further comments you have would be helpful. Thanks.
 
memphian said:
I understand we don’t pray to statues. My concern was veneration of a replica. However, being reminded many of us have replicas in our homes seemed to help.

Any further comments you have would be helpful. Thanks.
Click to expand...
ahh the clarification was just in that poster’s wording. They way it was written, one could have read it to mean an action thru the icon, which I am fairly certain was not the poster’s intent.

Praying for you
 
Thank you for the clarification. I attended the event and was deeply moved by our Mother to pray more often.😊
 
memphian said:
Hi,

An exact replica of the cloth made by the Blessed Virgin shown to St. Juan Diego is being shown in the parishes of my diocese. As a former Protestant, I admit I was taken back when I read that there will be veneration of the replica. I understand veneration of the actual cloth (if I were visiting in Mexico, for example), but I am puzzled by veneration of a replica. I would like to go and see it, but in my “formerly Protestant mind”, this seems to take it a bit far. Would someone please explain? By the way, I don’t mind revealing the diocese - San Antonio Texas.
Click to expand...
Whether we venerate the cloth or the reproduction we are not worshiping either the cloth, the replica or Mary. The cloth and the replica bring to our physical eyes and to our minds the reality of the love of Jesus as he is shown through the loving eyes of Mary.
 
What difference does it make if it’s a replica? A holy image is a holy image. They are all worthy of veneration.

As the prophets beheld, as the Apostles have taught, as the Church has received, as the teachers have dogmatized, as the Universe has agrees, as Grace has shown forth, as Truth has revealed, as falsehood has been dissolved, as Wisdom has presented, as Christ awarded, thus we declare, thus we assert, thus we preach Christ our true God, and honor as Saints in words, in writings, in thoughts, in sacrifices, in churches, in Holy Icons; on the one hand worshiping and reverencing Christ as God and Lord; and on the other hand honoring them as true servants of the same Lord of all and accordingly offering them veneration.

This is the Faith of the Apostles, this is the Faith of the Fathers, this is the Faith of the Orthodox, this is the Faith which has established the Universe. - 7th Ecumenical Council
 
Seraphim73 said:
What difference does it make if it’s a replica? A holy image is a holy image. They are all worthy of veneration.

As the prophets beheld, as the Apostles have taught, as the Church has received, as the teachers have dogmatized, as the Universe has agrees, as Grace has shown forth, as Truth has revealed, as falsehood has been dissolved, as Wisdom has presented, as Christ awarded, thus we declare, thus we assert, thus we preach Christ our true God, and honor as Saints in words, in writings, in thoughts, in sacrifices, in churches, in Holy Icons; on the one hand worshiping and reverencing Christ as God and Lord; and on the other hand honoring them as true servants of the same Lord of all and accordingly offering them veneration.

This is the Faith of the Apostles, this is the Faith of the Fathers, this is the Faith of the Orthodox, this is the Faith which has established the Universe. - 7th Ecumenical Council
Click to expand...
Point taken, but I’m going to be more in awe of I were in the presence of the actual Tilma versus a replica. I understand the Tilma is blessed and sanctioned by the bishops and worthy of respect.
 
HelenRose said:
Whether we venerate the cloth or the reproduction we are not worshiping either the cloth, the replica or Mary. The cloth and the replica bring to our physical eyes and to our minds the reality of the love of Jesus as he is shown through the loving eyes of Mary.
Click to expand...
Agreed.
 
Perhaps the replica was touched to the original image, that would make it a third class relic, is that correct?
 
For me veneration is about prayerfully respecting what the object/person represents - not that which is [only] of itself. For me the likes of the Turin Shroud or a well loved saint, or a crucifix or statue are pointers/signifiers/prompters to that which is worthy of LOVE and WORSHIP - namely God.
 
Mount_Carmel said:
For me veneration is about prayerfully respecting what the object/person represents - not that which is [only] of itself. For me the likes of the Turin Shroud or a well loved saint, or a crucifix or statue are pointers/signifiers/prompters to that which is worthy of LOVE and WORSHIP - namely God.
Click to expand...
Our Lady always points us to Jesus and any statue, Tilma or other object should do the same. But being human, if I’m in the presence of the actual Tilma crafted in heaven and sent down here to Earth, it’s going to evoke a greater sense of awe in me. For the object?? No the Lord. But an actual object crafted in heaven is going to grab my attention more so.
 
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