Venial/mortal sins & "obligations"

[nodito]

But your answer to my question about Sunday obligation was “It depends.” And it depends on many things, not just one factor. Your answer is not an insufficient answer, but in my opinion, it is complicated. And for a life-long Protestant, confusing as well.

Hi friendlymomma!

Thanks for your question.

Keeping the Lord’s Day is a serious obligation for all Catholics. We are obliged to attend Mass on Sundays and Holy Days of Obligations. Missing mass without a sufficient reason (illness, caring for a sick child, etc) is grave matter. In order for a sin to be mortal (i.e., send you to hell if you die without repenting), the sin must be grave matter chosen freely, with the knowledge that it offends God. So, yes, if you deliberately miss Mass because you felt like sleeping in or going out to breakfast instead, for example, that would constitute mortal sin.

But I’d argue that it’s not hard to avoid mortal sin, especially if you make frequent use of the sacraments and have family support. Mass going is a habit for our family and it honestly never occurs to me to not go on Sundays. It doesn’t seem like a big obstacle to our day, either. It’s just what we do on Sundays. And you can’t sin mortally by accident or against your will. You can’t sin when you’re sleeping, for example. Your culpability is reduced if you sin out of habit. So it is definitely very possible to live your life in God’s friendship and without risking your immortal soul.

God bless, and welcome home!

 

[friendlymomma]

Thanks, everyone. That is helpful.
I think things are becoming a little more clear in my mind now. After reading everyone’s comments and pondering further, I certainly have more peace about this teaching. If anyone has any more insights, though, I would be happy to hear them.

 

[friendlymomma]

I don’t mean to be off-putting. Sorry if I sounded that way.

Let me try to explain myself better. The Church’s teaching on keeping the Lord’s day is quite simple; participate in the Holy Mass and refrain from unnecessary labor.

Where it get messy are the complicated situations we imperfect humans find ourself in, or often put ourselves in. When try to see what we can get by with and not offend the letter of the law, a lot of complications set in. When strive to be holy as Jesus called us to be, we try to follow the narrow way, staying as far away from the boundries of sin as we can.

Thanks, David. Good insights.

 

[friendlymomma]

Also, my husband & I would like to know if the “Sunday obligation” is a discipline or a doctrine. Is it a current discipline of the Church, or has it always been that way?

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Also, my husband & I would like to know if the “Sunday obligation” is a discipline or a doctrine. Is it a current discipline of the Church, or has it always been that way?

Attending Mass or services on the Sabbath was established by Jesus, so yes, it has always been that way. Before that, our Jewish predecessors also celebrated the Sabbath.

If God tells us to do something, then it’s considered an obligation.

Did you not go to Sunday services at your church, or were these optional? I know at least one Protestant denomination that demands not only Sunday church attendance but Wednesday evenings as well, or as some members say, “every time the church doors are open, we have to be there.”

 

[venite_adoremus]

Are you going to hell if you skip Mass and you don’t have any excuses for missing it?

Separating one’s self from the Mass is one of the loneliest feelings in the world. So for those Sundays where something comes up and you simply, positively, cannot make it, unite yourself with Christ in the Eucharist in a spiritual way. Your standard prayer books will contain an “act of spiritual communion” and it’s a great prayer to use every day, not just Sundays. Buy a missal or a liturgical Bible, and be familiar with the readings of the day. Ponder those readings, offer the Lord’s Prayer, then add,

“My Jesus, I believe you are present in the Most Holy Sacrament of the altar. I love you above all things, and I long for you in my soul. Since I cannot now receive you sacramentally, come at least spiritually into my heart. As though you were already here, I embrace you; I unite myself entirely with you; never let me be separated from you.”

Your RCIA leaders and your pastors know that there are no “dumb” questions among the seekers, the catechumens, the candidates, and the elect when it comes to revising ancient spiritual programming. Raise your hand and ask.

BTW, trying to draw the line between when a sin is venial and when a sin is mortal is like eating too much at Thanksgiving. When you’ve crossed the line, you’ll know.

 

[venite_adoremus]

Also, my husband & I would like to know if the “Sunday obligation” is a discipline or a doctrine. Is it a current discipline of the Church, or has it always been that way?

As one of the precepts of the Church, made equal to the Ten Commandments, I believe it’s dogma. Correct me if I’m wrong, y’all.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Separating one’s self from the Mass is one of the loneliest feelings in the world. So for those Sundays where something comes up and you simply, positively, cannot make it, unite yourself with Christ in the Eucharist in a spiritual way. Your standard prayer books will contain an “act of spiritual communion” and it’s a great prayer to use every day, not just Sundays. Buy a missal or a liturgical Bible, and be familiar with the readings of the day. Ponder those readings, offer the Lord’s Prayer, then add,

“My Jesus, I believe you are present in the Most Holy Sacrament of the altar. I love you above all things, and I long for you in my soul. Since I cannot now receive you sacramentally, come at least spiritually into my heart. As though you were already here, I embrace you; I unite myself entirely with you; never let me be separated from you.”

Your RCIA leaders and your pastors know that there are no “dumb” questions among the seekers, the catechumens, the candidates, and the elect when it comes to revising ancient spiritual programming. Raise your hand and ask.

BTW, trying to draw the line between when a sin is venial and when a sin is mortal is like eating too much at Thanksgiving. When you’ve crossed the line, you’ll know.

I don’t think they are actually in RCIA yet.

 

[englishredrose]

Let’s not give people the wrong impression, you can definitely still go to hell! Of course God does not WANT to punish us, but Hell is still a reality and we can definitely be separated from God forever. There are such things as mortal sins and if our sins are not repented of, we can be doomed to Hell.

As an Anglican, you should not advise people of what the Catholic Church teaches.

Previousl by chance I am in church on Sundays most weeks of the year and Serve on the Altar or singing in the choir and the current priest has very much guided me on how to cope on those Sundays when really don’t want to be there,totally don’t want to be there(I have been going 25 years and received that help in the last 6 month) . That is why I said talk the priest on these things. They have the authority to know how to help us through the times we sure don’t want to go. But I don’t want someone to think they are going to hell for skipping services. That surely isn’t a loving God that we know and love?:

If we all did what we should on these boards then it would be a better board I will add without any malice etc… just plainly stating it

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Previousl by chance I am in church on Sundays most weeks of the year and Serve on the Altar or singing in the choir and the current priest has very much guided me on how to cope on those Sundays when really don’t want to be there,totally don’t want to be there(I have been going 25 years and received that help in the last 6 month) . That is why I said talk the priest on these things. They have the authority to know how to help us through the times we sure don’t want to go. But I don’t want someone to think they are going to hell for skipping services. That surely isn’t a loving God that we know and love?:

If we all did what we should on these boards then it would be a better board I will add without any malice etc… just plainly stating it

The problem is that you give the impression that there is no such thing as Hell and God is only love. Of course God loves us but there is such a thing as Hell and we can separate ourselves from God forever if we choose to do that. God isn’t going to bring us to himself against our own free will. If decisions like skipping Mass become habit, then chances are good that other mortal sins are being committed and blown off as “not that important.” Well, then you are on shaky ground indeed. Most of us here on CAF are trying to be the people God wants us to be, and not even commit mortals in the first place. But if we do, we need to be aware, to repent, to confess and be absolved. And not commit that sin again if at all possible.

 

[englishredrose]

Hang on

I posted my reply as a direct answer to the opening post. "you won’t go to hell for skipping service (((meaning mass))) " At no point did I talk about any other sin. I wasn’t talking about other sins. Just specific to the opening post. I kept to the topic in hand

I did not say anything about there being not a Hell and gave no suggestion about not being a hell. I simply answered the question. If somehow you interpreted that to mean I don’t believe in Hell then its all gone astray somewhere because I clearly do believe in Hell. However whether anybody has gone to Hell that is an entirely different question and for another thread. But whether there is Hell then yes there is Hell. And I somehow fail to see that by saying you wont go to hell for skipping service/mass means that I am saying there isn’t a hell? Sorry if thats what you thought but that was so far from my thoughts.

I hope we can let the thread go back to the opening posts please? Sorry you misunderstood me

 

[Bookcat]

Also, my husband & I would like to know if the “Sunday obligation” is a discipline or a doctrine. Is it a current discipline of the Church, or has it always been that way?

You could say it is a bit of both.

From the very early days the Lords Day has been a very important day.

For Christians the 3rd Commandment began to be lived on the Lords Day due to the Resurrection.

How one is to live it has had various “disciplines” through the centuries.

 

[Bookcat]

"Iuxta dominicam viventes – living in accordance with the Lord’s Day

1. From the beginning Christians were clearly conscious of this radical newness which the Eucharist brings to human life. The faithful immediately perceived the profound influence of the eucharistic celebration on their manner of life. Saint Ignatius of Antioch expressed this truth when he called Christians “those who have attained a new hope,” and described them as “those living in accordance with the Lord’s Day” (iuxta dominicam viventes). (204) This phrase of the great Antiochene martyr highlights the connection between the reality of the Eucharist and everyday Christian life. The Christians’ customary practice of gathering on the first day after the Sabbath to celebrate the resurrection of Christ – according to the account of Saint Justin Martyr(205) – is also what defines the form of a life renewed by an encounter with Christ. Saint Ignatius’ phrase – “living in accordance with the Lord’s Day” – also emphasizes that this holy day becomes paradigmatic for every other day of the week. Indeed, it is defined by something more than the simple suspension of one’s ordinary activities, a sort of parenthesis in one’s usual daily rhythm. Christians have always experienced this day as the first day of the week, since it commemorates the radical newness brought by Christ. Sunday is thus the day when Christians rediscover the eucharistic form which their lives are meant to have. “Living in accordance with the Lord’s Day” means living in the awareness of the liberation brought by Christ and making our lives a constant self-offering to God, so that his victory may be fully revealed to all humanity through a profoundly renewed existence."

–Pope Benedict XVI

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_ben-xvi_exh_20070222_sacramentum-caritatis_en.html

 

[Bookcat]

“95. At the beginning of the fourth century, Christian worship was still forbidden by the imperial authorities. Some Christians in North Africa, who felt bound to celebrate the Lord’s Day, defied the prohibition. They were martyred after declaring that it was not possible for them to live without the Eucharist, the food of the Lord: sine dominico non possumus. (252) May these martyrs of Abitinae, in union with all those saints and beati who made the Eucharist the centre of their lives, intercede for us and teach us to be faithful to our encounter with the risen Christ. We too cannot live without partaking of the sacrament of our salvation; we too desire to be iuxta dominicam viventes, to reflect in our lives what we celebrate on the Lord’s Day. That day is the day of our definitive deliverance. Is it surprising, then, that we should wish to live every day in that newness of life which Christ has brought us in the mystery of the Eucharist?”

–Pope Benedict XVI

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_ben-xvi_exh_20070222_sacramentum-caritatis_en.html
*
““Sine dominico non possumus!”* Without the gift of the Lord, without the Lord’s day, we cannot live: That was the answer given in the year 304 by Christians from Abitene in present-day Tunisia, when they were caught celebrating the forbidden Sunday Eucharist and brought before the judge. They were asked why they were celebrating the Christian Sunday Eucharist, even though they knew it was a capital offence. “Sine dominico non possumus”: in the word dominicum/dominico two meanings are inextricably intertwined, and we must once more learn to recognize their unity. First of all there is the gift of the Lord – this gift is the Lord himself: the Risen one, whom the Christians simply need to have close and accessible to them, if they are to be themselves. Yet this accessibility is not merely something spiritual, inward and subjective: the encounter with the Lord is inscribed in time on a specific day.”

–Pope Benedict XVI Saint Stephen’s Cathedral, Vienna Sunday, 9 September 2007

 

[friendlymomma]

We are not in RCIA yet. We looked into it, talked to the priest about beginning right away, but it looks like we will not begin until September.

 

[friendlymomma]

Attending Mass or services on the Sabbath was established by Jesus, so yes, it has always been that way. Before that, our Jewish predecessors also celebrated the Sabbath.

If God tells us to do something, then it’s considered an obligation.

Did you not go to Sunday services at your church, or were these optional? I know at least one Protestant denomination that demands not only Sunday church attendance but Wednesday evenings as well, or as some members say, “every time the church doors are open, we have to be there.”

Of course I went to church. But if I felt like not going and stayed home, I never worried for a second that I might end up in hell.
A Protestant may feel guilty about not going, and may have felt obligated by pressure from others, but would never, ever wonder about the state of his soul in regards to church attendance.
Salvation is a matter of faith, of believing that Jesus died on the cross for your sins, not a matter of what you do. In Christ, you ARE righteous no matter what you do, because His blood covers you.
(Some Protestants do not believe in “eternal security”, but all the churches I have been to have held very firmly to this doctrine.)
It would make sense to a Protestant that an unrepentant murderer who once proclaimed belief in Christ would not inherit eternal life. Or someone who in every way seems to reject the faith that they once proclaimed. (They would likely argue that such a person had never been truly saved in the first place.) But skipping church? That just seems too legalistic. Too much like following “works of the law.”
Of course, at a Protestant church, a person is not partaking of the real body and blood of Jesus Christ. So he or she would just be going for spiritual growth and to follow Hebrews 10:25: “Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing.”

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Of course I went to church. But if I felt like not going and stayed home, I never worried for a second that I might end up in hell.
A Protestant may feel guilty about not going, and may have felt obligated by pressure from others, but would never, ever wonder about the state of his soul in regards to church attendance.
Salvation is a matter of faith, of believing that Jesus died on the cross for your sins, not a matter of what you do. In Christ, you ARE righteous no matter what you do, because His blood covers you.
(Some Protestants do not believe in “eternal security”, but all the churches I have been to have held very firmly to this doctrine.)
It would make sense to a Protestant that an unrepentant murderer who once proclaimed belief in Christ would not inherit eternal life. Or someone who in every way seems to reject the faith that they once proclaimed. (They would likely argue that such a person had never been truly saved in the first place.) But skipping church? That just seems too legalistic. Too much like following “works of the law.”
Of course, at a Protestant church, a person is not partaking of the real body and blood of Jesus Christ. So he or she would just be going for spiritual growth and to follow Hebrews 10:25: “Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing.”

I was thinking more about your question as I went about my day…It is not just for our own edification that we attend Mass (or church services, for Protestants). It is also because we are members of the BODY of Christ, and all the members need to come together in one place for worship. (Of course not literally, but in spirit, we are united.) So skipping Mass or church removes you from the Body and makes that Body weaker by 1, and if lots of people end up staying home, then the Body is very much weaker. We go not only for ourselves but for our fellow Christians/Catholics.

I hope that you soon leave behind your idea that Catholics are legalistic. We go to Mass every Sunday not because we want to avoid Hell, but because we yearn for a glimpse and a taste, if you will, of Heaven.

 

[underacloud]

Hi friendlymomma,

Others have provided some very helpful insights into our Sunday obligation. I thought I’d share a few thoughts also.

a) If a friend invited you over for a meal, you wouldn’t decline without good reason. You wouldn’t sit at home thinking “I couldn’t be bothered today”. You would understand that your friend went to some effort and would be upset if you simply failed to come. Well, God went to some effort in preparing the meal offered at mass each Sunday. Moreover, God would love to see you there.

Note: if you were sick, worn out, or something came up, a friend would of course understand, as will God.

b) The word “obligation” seems very cold and inflexible. But keep in mind that in life we have many obligations that are wonderful. My wife and I have an obligation to love each other and forsake all others. That’s a great obligation. I have an obligation to care for my children…which is sometimes very hard!..but again it’s a great obligation. Obligations are given to us as blessings, when we understand the riches that they bring us. When we understand the grace we receive at mass, we understand that the obligation is entirely in our interest. The Sunday obligation is a blessing, not a burden. Even when it seems like a burden, that’s because we cannot see the bigger picture, so we entrust ourselves to God and fulfill our obligation, through which, whether we are aware or not, He richly blesses us.

 

[SteveGC]

Of course I went to church. But if I felt like not going and stayed home, I never worried for a second that I might end up in hell.
A Protestant may feel guilty about not going, and may have felt obligated by pressure from others, but would never, ever wonder about the state of his soul in regards to church attendance.
Salvation is a matter of faith, of believing that Jesus died on the cross for your sins, not a matter of what you do. In Christ, you ARE righteous no matter what you do, because His blood covers you.
(Some Protestants do not believe in “eternal security”, but all the churches I have been to have held very firmly to this doctrine.)
It would make sense to a Protestant that an unrepentant murderer who once proclaimed belief in Christ would not inherit eternal life. Or someone who in every way seems to reject the faith that they once proclaimed. (They would likely argue that such a person had never been truly saved in the first place.) But skipping church? That just seems too legalistic. Too much like following “works of the law.”
Of course, at a Protestant church, a person is not partaking of the real body and blood of Jesus Christ. So he or she would just be going for spiritual growth and to follow Hebrews 10:25: “Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing.”

Hi friendlymomma, glad to see you got your thread up and running. Sorry I was delayed in joining in the already engaging discussion. Thought I would add a comment or two.

The dilemma many have over the gravity of Sunday mass attendance is often linked to two issues. 1) an under-developed understanding of the Mass and specifically the Eucharist as the source and summit of the Catholic faith, and 2) a less-than-full appreciation for the commandment to keep holy the Sabbath. Those who fret over the issue, incredulously fixated on how a good God could allow for such a thing, are often subject to both of these aspects.

Explore these two in greater detail within the Catholic body of literature and I think you will begin to see the significance of the matter, and understand why others here have stated that it simply would seem utterly unnatural to miss Mass intentionally. If you need some direction to some resources, I and others here would surely love to help.

Peace be with you.