Venial or Mortal Sin

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Judy57

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Hi all,

Today I was with a friend for lunch and I met her at Macy’s. When I was walking through the store I saw a skirt that I really liked that was 65% off. Here is the question, I dont know if I am being scrupulous or not. To get an additional 15% off I applied for a Macy’s card. The thing is I am currently unemployed and have been for 10 months now, but I am collecting unemployment. I really cant afford the dress being that money is really tight right now. Anyway I applied for the credit card and I lied about my income. I knew I was lying but wanted the skirt. I can pay off the amount when the bill comes. Its only $24.00 dollars. Only a couple of days ago I got help from St Vincent de Pauls to help with our electric bill and then I lie to get a discount on this skirt. I am not trying to acknowledge the fact I did this, but in the same token I havent bought cloths for myself in awhile. The up side of it is I can wear the skirt to church and job interviews (trying to make light of this action).

Is this a venial sin or a mortal sin? At the time I applied for it I knew I was lying but now I am concerned about my actions. I did not think I could lie then confess it though. That thought did not cross my mind…

Judy57
 
I think your conscience knows, for me this would be a moral sin. I would return the skirt and make a large donation to SVDP.
 
Judy57 said:
Hi all,

Today I was with a friend for lunch and I met her at Macy’s. When I was walking through the store I saw a skirt that I really liked that was 65% off. Here is the question, I dont know if I am being scrupulous or not. To get an additional 15% off I applied for a Macy’s card. The thing is I am currently unemployed and have been for 10 months now, but I am collecting unemployment. I really cant afford the dress being that money is really tight right now. Anyway I applied for the credit card and I lied about my income. I knew I was lying but wanted the skirt. I can pay off the amount when the bill comes. Its only $24.00 dollars. Only a couple of days ago I got help from St Vincent de Pauls to help with our electric bill and then I lie to get a discount on this skirt. I am not trying to acknowledge the fact I did this, but in the same token I havent bought cloths for myself in awhile. The up side of it is I can wear the skirt to church and job interviews (trying to make light of this action).

Is this a venial sin or a mortal sin? At the time I applied for it I knew I was lying but now I am concerned about my actions. I did not think I could lie then confess it though. That thought did not cross my mind…

Judy57
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What a delightful story! It’s about someone in financial trouble finding a little something they want (quite reasonably) and telling a white lie to get it… You could turn it into a short story, and then finish it with you asking this question about the severity of the sin. 🙂

Dishonesty and theft are only mortal sins if the damage done is grave.

The actual damage caused by this is negligible, in fact it has probably turned out for the best if you have a cheap skirt which you needed and can use. So, the only moral principle which applies is that we can’t willingly tell a lie so that good can come from it. You have paid for the skirt - you didn’t steal it. Keep the skirt, but possibly consider paying off the card ASAP and then returning it.
 
If it was a necessity (i.e. you absolutely needed something decent for a job interview), then I don’t see the problem. If not, I can’t say if it was a sin or what type, but I would suggest avoiding these morally gray areas. To me, it seems when a person is searching for justification it is usually a sin.
 
BTW, the only person you have harmed (potentially) by this is yourself, if you were to put yourself in trouble paying the credit bill. There is no chance that the store or credit company won’t get their money. Only big criminals get away with credit dishonesty.
 
i dont know why people go after credit cards. i say if you dont have the money to pay for something the you should look for something else that you can afford or save up for it and buy it a little later on. this credit card business is something this world does not need at all. they just cause alot of stress and worry
 
I feel sorry for your situation. The skirt sounds like a good buy and was made better by opening the credit card. But lying about your income is not a good idea. You are not alone in your circumstances, lots of people are out of work and can’t afford anything extra right now. Learn fom this mistake and pray for help and strength to avoid future temptations. One thing that I have always felt is true, if you think something was a sin, that’s it, it was a sin.
 
Lying about your income to get a skirt? I’m thinking that’s venial. I personally don’t see how that is grave matter. If you lied about your income by a few hundred thousand dollars to get a mortgage or car loan, I would classify that as grave matter. I’m no expert, that’s just my opinion. If you don’t have the chance to go to the sacrament of Reconciliation, I would not stay away from receiving Holy Communion because of this.
 
Judy57 said:
Hi all,

Today I was with a friend for lunch and I met her at Macy’s. When I was walking through the store I saw a skirt that I really liked that was 65% off. Here is the question, I dont know if I am being scrupulous or not. To get an additional 15% off I applied for a Macy’s card. The thing is I am currently unemployed and have been for 10 months now, but I am collecting unemployment. I really cant afford the dress being that money is really tight right now. Anyway I applied for the credit card and I lied about my income. I knew I was lying but wanted the skirt. I can pay off the amount when the bill comes. Its only $24.00 dollars. Only a couple of days ago I got help from St Vincent de Pauls to help with our electric bill and then I lie to get a discount on this skirt. I am not trying to acknowledge the fact I did this, but in the same token I havent bought cloths for myself in awhile. The up side of it is I can wear the skirt to church and job interviews (trying to make light of this action).

Is this a venial sin or a mortal sin? At the time I applied for it I knew I was lying but now I am concerned about my actions. I did not think I could lie then confess it though. That thought did not cross my mind…

Judy57
Click to expand...
Your story is funny and some answers here are funnier.

So, if Macy or whatever it is (I do not know the Company) asks for my income and I reply that I earn more than Bill Gates, I lie and it is a mortal sin and I will go to hell. :confused:

Boy, let us not confuse $$$$ with Christianity.

What you did was no sin whatsoever. Remember that the credit card companies write off 10% for losses for people who will never pay (and are not committing mortal sins!).

To get help from St.Vincent of Paul and buy a skirt is something out of this world? You can use the skirt for interviews, maybe you will get one job nicely dressed.

For me, you are a balanced conscience, a fine tuned soul who do not want to hurt anybody and want to please God. You are doing all that. Remember that your so-called lie (which was not because a lie is not to give information that the other person HAS THE RIGHT to know; now, the credit card company does not have any legal right to know my income, OK?) did not hurt anybody not even the credit card company. So, why should it be a sin?

Pray that you find a job soon, lady. You deserve it. I think that if I had a job opening for your competences, you would be my choice.
 
Whether venial or mortal, a lie is a lie. Though only mortal sins are required to be confessed, the Church encourages us to confess venial sins and imperfections. If one wants to work toward holiness, he will receive the sacraments as often as possible. If one only wants to get by, then he can choose to do the minimum. Each of us has to ask this: Do I want to reach holiness and have a great relationship with the Lord, or do I simply want to get by and do the minimum ?
 
Edmundus1581 said:
What a delightful story! It’s about someone in financial trouble finding a little something they want (quite reasonably) and telling a white lie to get it… You could turn it into a short story, and then finish it with you asking this question about the severity of the sin. 🙂

Dishonesty and theft are only mortal sins if the damage done is grave.

The actual damage caused by this is negligible, in fact it has probably turned out for the best if you have a cheap skirt which you needed and can use. So, the only moral principle which applies is that we can’t willingly tell a lie so that good can come from it. You have paid for the skirt - you didn’t steal it. Keep the skirt, but possibly consider paying off the card ASAP and then returning it.
Click to expand...
I plan on paying it off when the bill comes, I just am not sure if it is a venial or mortal sin. I am able to go to conession today. I also am struggling with whether I should take it back or not. Do I keep the card is also another question.

I do struggle with what is venial and what is mortal. Right now it is early enough in the day where I can go to confession. I know it is a sin, there I dont have any doubt. I just dont want to miss the sacraments on Sunday because of this stupid decision I made. Maybe I am trying to justify in my own mind but I dont really buy a lot of cloths for myself, not that that makes it right.
 
HisIsTheCrown said:
Your story is funny and some answers here are funnier.

So, if Macy or whatever it is (I do not know the Company) asks for my income and I reply that I earn more than Bill Gates, I lie and it is a mortal sin and I will go to hell. :confused:

Boy, let us not confuse $$$$ with Christianity.

What you did was no sin whatsoever. Remember that the credit card companies write off 10% for losses for people who will never pay (and are not committing mortal sins!).

To get help from St.Vincent of Paul and buy a skirt is something out of this world? You can use the skirt for interviews, maybe you will get one job nicely dressed.

For me, you are a balanced conscience, a fine tuned soul who do not want to hurt anybody and want to please God. You are doing all that. Remember that your so-called lie (which was not because a lie is not to give information that the other person HAS THE RIGHT to know; now, the credit card company does not have any legal right to know my income, OK?) did not hurt anybody not even the credit card company. So, why should it be a sin?

Pray that you find a job soon, lady. You deserve it. I think that if I had a job opening for your competences, you would be my choice.
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Thank you for your support of confidence 🙂
 
InLight247 said:
Whether venial or mortal, a lie is a lie. Though only mortal sins are required to be confessed, the Church encourages us to confess venial sins and imperfections. If one wants to work toward holiness, he will receive the sacraments as often as possible. If one only wants to get by, then he can choose to do the minimum. Each of us has to ask this: Do I want to reach holiness and have a great relationship with the Lord, or do I simply want to get by and do the minimum ?
Click to expand...
How would you define a lie, please?
 
Judy57 said:
I plan on paying it off when the bill comes, I just am not sure if it is a venial or mortal sin. I am able to go to conession today. I also am struggling with whether I should take it back or not. Do I keep the card is also another question.

I do struggle with what is venial and what is mortal. Right now it is early enough in the day where I can go to confession. I know it is a sin, there I dont have any doubt. I just dont want to miss the sacraments on Sunday because of this stupid decision I made. Maybe I am trying to justify in my own mind but I dont really buy a lot of cloths for myself, not that that makes it right.
Click to expand...
You are, it seems to me, tripping over your own feet, it seems to me …
“I do struggle with what is venial and what is mortal.” - isn’t it up to Jesus Christ to decide?
“I know it is a sin, there I dont have any doubt.” - are your sure? Are not you being too harsh judge on yourself? Sometimes we are our own worst enemies.
“Maybe I am trying to justify in my own mind but I dont really buy a lot of cloths for myself, not that that makes it right.” - you are a fine tuned conscience, too fine tuned for today’s world. My view. But I see your demanding too much from yourself. My view …
 
HisIsTheCrown said:
How would you define a lie, please?
Click to expand...
A lie is saying something not true. For example, if one’s income is 10,000 per year, but put down 15,000 per year on a form. Or if one is collecting unemployment and telling people he is not, etc… The Bible clearly tells us to say yes for yes, say no for no.

If one wants to avoid lying but don’t want to give the true answer, he can avoid answering by asking “why do you want to know?” and don’t give an answer.
 
InLight247 said:
A lie is saying something not true. For example, if one’s income is 10,000 per year, but put down 15,000 per year on a form. Or if one is collecting unemployment and telling people he is not, etc… The Bible clearly tells us to say yes for yes, say no for no.

If one wants to avoid lying but don’t want to give the true answer, he can avoid answering by asking “why do you want to know?” and don’t give an answer.
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I think it is true what you said but the think is that some people are not entitled to the truth they are asking for.
I can say whatever I want if someone asks:
  • the color of my underwear;
  • how much do I earn;
  • if I committed a sin;
  • if I have cancer or any other disease that he is not entitled to know. Now if I engage in free love, the other is entitled to know whether I have got HIV.
  • and so on.
We are not entitled to know everything, only God knows. There are gossipy people that must be dealt with with every weapon we have got. To define truth is hard. If I say with intent that 2+2=5, this is not a moral (!!!) lie. What it is is complicated to define.
 
InLight247 said:
A lie is saying something not true.
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Yes, it is as simple as that. The Catechism says something similar - I remember, because we once had some debate in CAF about whether being late for an appointment is a “lie”. Oh… one must also know the statement to be untrue.
InLight247 said:
For example, if one’s income is 10,000 per year, but put down 15,000 per year on a form.
Click to expand...
Correct.

Just relating this to the case of applying for a store credit card…

If your income really mattered to the store they’d check it, just like they check your ID, and like banks check your income for larger loans. The store wants to give you a credit card so you’ll start using it and buy more from the store, and pay credit card interest. In fact, they probably want people to overstate their income, and spend more than they can afford, and end up paying twice as much for the goods. The income declaration is just to cover themselves legally so that if you can’t pay you can’t sue them for giving you a card you can’t afford.

So, it is a “lie”, no doubt, and thus a sin, but you are definitely not hurting the store or the credit card company. As the gravity of a sin of dishonesty depends on the amount of damage it causes, and (possibly) who it is done to, it would would be a venial sin, unless you somehow got yourself a credit card which **knew **was going to cause severe damage to yourself or your family (which seems unlikely).
 
The thing is it doesnt matter what the credit card company does or does not do to get a card. The fact that I lied about my income is what is important here. I know it was a lie, the problem I was having was is it a venial or mortal sin. I did go to confession on Saturday and needless to say the priest did not sound happy about what I did, do I blame him, of course not. When I asked him what I should do he said it was up to me. So I am not going to return it, but one thing I know for sure is I WILL NOT DO IT AGAIN until I am back to work. I am going to pay off the $24.27 when the bill comes in. The priest told me he could not tell me what to do. I was so itimidated by what he said I was still upset even by the time I got home. I didnt even finish telling him the other things I wanted to say. All he said was a sin is a sin it doesnt matter if it was venial or mortal and that he was going to absolve me. I only went because I was not sure if it was a venial or mortal and I wanted to be able to receive the sacraments on Sunday. I know that if was a Mortal sin I would not have been able to receive the sacraments on Sunday.

I am looking at this learning experience with a positive spin. Maybe this was meant to happen since I had did something similar a month ago or so, but I did not apply for any card I already had the credit card, I just bought something I probably shouldnt have. I guess this is what you call the “Fear of God”. Because it has definetly put the “Fear of God” in me not to do this again.

Also just for curiosity, if you discuss your confession with someone is that a sin?

Judy
 
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