Venial sin becoming mortal sin?

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MilesVitae

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I know that no number of venial sins can amount to a mortal sin (except in certain cases where the effects of individual venial sins add up to a grave effect - for instance, stealing a lot of money from someone, but only a little bit at a time). However, I read once somewhere (and I can’t recall where) that obstinacy in venial sin can be mortally sinful. What does this mean?
 
I think it is the idea that being stubborn in commiting venial sins leads to a grave state. Another example can be going to confession for venial sins, but not actually being contrite and intending to attempt to correct the sin. Like ifI go to confession for using profane langauge in traffic, but in my heart I do not feel sorry or plan to stop doing it. This would cause me to make a bad confession and enter a worse state.
 
Compendium issued by Pope Benedict XVI
  1. When does one commit a mortal sin?
1855-1861
1874

One commits a mortal sin when there are simultaneously present: grave matter, full knowledge, and deliberate consent. This sin destroys charity in us, deprives us of sanctifying grace, and, if unrepented, leads us to the eternal death of hell. It can be forgiven in the ordinary way by means of the sacraments of Baptism and of Penance or Reconciliation.
  1. When does one commit a venial sin?
1862-1864
1875

One commits a venial sin, which is essentially different from a mortal sin, when the matter involved is less serious or, even if it is grave, when full knowledge or complete consent are absent. Venial sin does not break the covenant with God but it weakens charity and manifests a disordered affection for created goods. It impedes the progress of a soul in the exercise of the virtues and in the practice of moral good. It merits temporal punishment which purifies.

Catechism:

863 Venial sin weakens charity; it manifests a disordered affection for created goods; it impedes the soul’s progress in the exercise of the virtues and the practice of the moral good; it merits temporal punishment. Deliberate and unrepented venial sin disposes us little by little to commit mortal sin. However venial sin does not set us in direct opposition to the will and friendship of God; it does not break the covenant with God. With God’s grace it is humanly reparable. "Venial sin does not deprive the sinner of sanctifying grace, friendship with God, charity, and consequently eternal happiness."134

While he is in the flesh, man cannot help but have at least some light sins. But do not despise these sins which we call “light”: if you take them for light when you weigh them, tremble when you count them. A number of light objects makes a great mass; a number of drops fills a river; a number of grains makes a heap. What then is our hope? Above all, confession.135
You may be thinking of that underlined line…where we can be “disposed” to mortal sin…

Also you may be thinking of say what ordinarily would look to be venial matter…can be grave…such as taking a small amount of money from a starving man…that sort of thing.
 
Jay417 said:
example can be going to confession for venial sins, but not actually being contrite and intending to attempt to correct the sin. Like ifI go to confession for using profane langauge in traffic, but in my heart I do not feel sorry or plan to stop doing it. This would cause me to make a bad confession and enter a worse state.
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Actually such is not quite the case.

So long as one had some other sin for which one was contrite etc…it does not make it invalid or “a bad confession”…yes one should be sorry etc for at least one venial sin that one confesses (or already confessed mortal sin that one mentions) …(remember too that the purpose of amendment can for venial can be different then for mortal (which excludes them all)…such as one has the some often committed venial sin and so is seeking to at least be better…etc)…and yes those will not be forgiven…etc…but it is not what is called “a bad confession” …

I would be a bad confession etc if it was a mortal sin (I am assuming for argument and due to the question here asked…that it is venial sins one is speaking of).

…though if that was all you confessed…say you lied venially and you were not sorry and amended in any of the ways one can be for a venial sin …and confessed just that sin…and nothing else…that would be a bigger problem admittedly!

But often we have some of the same things…and sometimes we may not in fact be amended suffiently …on intent at all to work on that venial sin…the confession of it among other things…does not make it per se a “bad confession”.

This is one of the reasons why there is the practice to add some general category of sin at the end of your confession or even a specific one one is contrite etc for.

“and all the sins of my life especially for those against charity and chastity”
 
MilesVitae said:
I know that no number of venial sins can amount to a mortal sin (except in certain cases where the effects of individual venial sins add up to a grave effect - for instance, stealing a lot of money from someone, but only a little bit at a time). However, I read once somewhere (and I can’t recall where) that obstinacy in venial sin can be mortally sinful. What does this mean?
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hey stealing no matter what it is is still always mortal sin
 
Bookcat said:
Such is not the case. There is parvity of matter. (smallness of matter).
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hows so? one of ten commandments is thou shall not steal, but persnally no matter if the sin is mortal or venial i still dont want to offend God
 
CountrySteve said:
hows so? one of ten commandments is thou shall not steal, but persnally no matter if the sin is mortal or venial i still dont want to offend God
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While all of the 10 commandments involve grave matter…not everything under them is “grave matter” …many admit of smallness of matter…such as the example given as well as many others…such as lying etc.

But yes…just cause something is a venial matter…does not mean one should do it! 🙂 let us seek more and more to follow Christ!
 
CountrySteve said:
hey stealing no matter what it is is still always mortal sin
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That is not necessarily the case.

CCC 2408 The seventh commandment forbids theft, that is, usurping another’s property against the reasonable will of the owner. There is no theft if consent can be presumed or if refusal is contrary to reason and the universal destination of goods. This is the case in obvious and urgent necessity when the only way to provide for immediate, essential needs (food, shelter, clothing . . .) is to put at one’s disposal and use the property of others.
 
thistle said:
That is not necessarily the case.

CCC 2408 The seventh commandment forbids theft, that is, usurping another’s property against the reasonable will of the owner. There is no theft if consent can be presumed or if refusal is contrary to reason and the universal destination of goods. This is the case in obvious and urgent necessity when the only way to provide for immediate, essential needs (food, shelter, clothing . . .) is to put at one’s disposal and use the property of others.
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In that case…the moral object itself is different. It simply is not theft.

My point was things that are theft…but not grave matter…like I just stole a pen from a store when I signed my credit card slip (not really)
 
‘Venial sin as venial never becomes mortal sin, just as whiteness does not become blackness. But an act generically venial can become a mortal sin from the will of one who constitutes a creature as the person’s end, since even something by its nature cold, like water, can become hot.’

St. Thomas Aquinas

‘Venial sin becomes mortal sin when one approves it as an end, not when one approves it in any way.’

St. Thomas Aquinas

‘Venial sin becomes mortal sin because of one’s contempt, as I have said before.’

St. Thomas Aquinas

St. Thomas Aquinas’s, ‘De Malo’ goes into this, which is where the above is from.

‘Moreover, know that just as all mortal sins are very serious, so too a venial sin is made mortal if a human being delights in it with the intention of persevering.’

Our Lord Jesus Christ, ‘The Revelations of St. Bridget of Sweden’

'Moralists give seven cases in which circumstances may change a venial into a mortal sin:
  1. Ratione conscientiae erroneae, when a man through ignorance thinks a venial sin to be mortal.
  2. Ratione scandali rel gravis damni, when grave scandal is given to one’s neighbor, doing spiritual or temporal harm; as, for instance, if a priest were to speak lightly of sacred things.
  3. *Ratione pravi finis graviter mali, *when for example a small lie is told to lead a girl into sin. The evil intention may not only increase the guilt of a sinful action, but it will make an otherwise innocent action sinful.
  4. Ratione formalis contemptus legis rel superioris, when a venial sin is committed out of a formal contempt for the law or lawgiver, as when a Catholic on an abstinence day, and quite aware of the duty of abstaining, eats ostentatiously a little flesh-meat to show the slight regard in which he holds the law.
  5. Ratione pravi affectus in rem alioqui leviter malam, when a man is so attached to a venial sin that he would commit it even if it were mortal, or in consequence of this attachment would be ready to commit other mortal sins, as for instance, a man chose rather to steal than to overcome his vanity or intemperance.
  6. Ratione periculi seu occasionis proximae in peccatum mortale labendi, when the venial sin is known, or can be known, as a proximate occasion of mortal sin; a man, for example, looks at a person of the other sex or entertains rather familiar relations with her though he knows that such conduct in his case is a proximate occasion of gravely sinful desires or actions. Even actions otherwise neutral or indifferent may for this reason become gravely sinful.
  7. Ratione cujuscunque circumstantiae quae mortalem in se malitiam contineat; thus insults, proceeding from envy and desire of revenge may be mortal sins. Hence those circumstances must be confessed.
The following circumstances may make sins venial which are of their own nature mortal: 1. Smallness of matter; 2. Want of full advertence; 3. Want of consent; 4. A false conscience.’
  • Theory and Practice of the Confessional
 
Note: Those who are scrupulous out there…or have a difficulty in that area…listen to your confessor and perhaps the principles one is given…do not scruple.
 
Shin said:
‘Moreover, know that just as all mortal sins are very serious, so too a venial sin is made mortal if a human being delights in it with the intention of persevering.’
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What does that mean?
 
MilesVitae said:
What does that mean?
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I repeat my question.

Persevering?

What does that mean? If it means delight in a venial sin while intending to continue to commit it, doesn’t that contradict the other quotations?
 
Shin said:
No, it’s not a contradiction as far as I can see.

Think about it.
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I did.

It does not seem to square with anything else I am reading that seems authoritative.

For instance, it does not seem to fall under any of the seven examples you listed.

One can intend to continue to commit a venial sin without doing it out of contempt for God and without being willing to commit mortal sin for the sake of that particular venial sin.
 
Perhaps there is trouble in understanding because there are different interpretations of when the decision (intention) to persevere in the act of sinning occurs. Does it occur during the sin (e.g., ‘I’m going to keep doing what I’m doing’) or after the sin (e.g., ‘I plan on doing that again’)? Or both?
 
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