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ADiosgracias
Guest
When I say at confession our venial sins and I get absolution for them, does God deleted the temporary punishment for these sins that we should purge in purgatory?
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MichaelHowling
Guest
No, satisfaction still needs to remain either to be done in this life or purgatory (if we are so blessed to get there).
Confession removes the thorn…the wound still needs to be healed.
Otherwise, people with addictions and such would be tormented in heaven.
Confession removes the thorn…the wound still needs to be healed.
Otherwise, people with addictions and such would be tormented in heaven.
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Bookcat
Guest
It can. Much depends on the disposition of the penitent.
But yes temporal punishment can remain.
But yes temporal punishment can remain.
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EricFilmer
Guest
The Catechism addresses this topic in terms of sin in general (i.e., not making a distinction between mortal and venial sin). On one hand, according to the Catechism, temporal punishment due to sin still remains after one receives absolution in the context of the Sacrament of Reconciliation:
“The forgiveness of sin and restoration of communion with God entail the remission of the eternal punishment of sin, but temporal punishment of sin remains.” (CCC #1473, emphasis added)
On the other hand, the Catechism also states…
“The spiritual effects of the sacrament of Penance are:
…remission, at least in part, of temporal punishments resulting from sin” (CCC #1496)
As you can see, there appears to be a bit of a discrepancy here. I once was doing a series of articles on the subject of indulgences and needed to have a proper understanding on this. I had the fortune to ask one of the priests who worked on the English translation of the Catechism about this. He told me that the Sacrament of Reconciliation has the power to purify one of the temporal punishment due to sin if you consider that in the past penitents were often given extremely rigorous types of penance. The Church has gotten away from lengthy penances which impose a notable degree of hardship. Nevertheless, a penance given during Confession should still be appropriate, given the weight of the sin confessed:
“The penance the confessor imposes must take into account the penitent’s personal situation and must seek his spiritual good. It must correspond as far as possible with the gravity and nature of the sins committed. It can consist of prayer, an offering, works of mercy, service of neighbor, voluntary self-denial, sacrifices, and above all the patient acceptance of the cross we must bear.” (CCC #1460, emphasis added)
Naturally, it can be a difficult thing to gauge the appropriateness of a penance against the sin in question. Because of this, even though the Sacrament of Reconciliation can allow for the remission of the temporal punishment due to sin, it usually does not. Because penances in the old days were so extreme, the idea is that there was a good chance that such penances “got the job done” in terms of also dealing with the temporal punishment situation. Keep in mind that patiently bearing the hardships of this life, whether or not it is part of a penance, can allow for purifying the soul of the taint of past sins.
Note how all this is worded in the Baltimore Catechism:
“Does the sacrament of Penance, worthily received, always take away all punishment?
The sacrament of Penance, worthily received, always takes away all eternal punishment; but it does not always take away all temporal punishment.” (Baltimore Catechism #422)
“What are the chief means of satisfying the debt of our temporal punishment, besides the penance imposed after confession?
Besides the penance imposed after confession, the chief means of satisfying the debt of our temporal punishment are: prayer, attending Mass, fasting, almsgiving, the works of mercy, the patient endurance of sufferings, and indulgences.” (Baltimore Catechism #425)
“The forgiveness of sin and restoration of communion with God entail the remission of the eternal punishment of sin, but temporal punishment of sin remains.” (CCC #1473, emphasis added)
On the other hand, the Catechism also states…
“The spiritual effects of the sacrament of Penance are:
…remission, at least in part, of temporal punishments resulting from sin” (CCC #1496)
As you can see, there appears to be a bit of a discrepancy here. I once was doing a series of articles on the subject of indulgences and needed to have a proper understanding on this. I had the fortune to ask one of the priests who worked on the English translation of the Catechism about this. He told me that the Sacrament of Reconciliation has the power to purify one of the temporal punishment due to sin if you consider that in the past penitents were often given extremely rigorous types of penance. The Church has gotten away from lengthy penances which impose a notable degree of hardship. Nevertheless, a penance given during Confession should still be appropriate, given the weight of the sin confessed:
“The penance the confessor imposes must take into account the penitent’s personal situation and must seek his spiritual good. It must correspond as far as possible with the gravity and nature of the sins committed. It can consist of prayer, an offering, works of mercy, service of neighbor, voluntary self-denial, sacrifices, and above all the patient acceptance of the cross we must bear.” (CCC #1460, emphasis added)
Naturally, it can be a difficult thing to gauge the appropriateness of a penance against the sin in question. Because of this, even though the Sacrament of Reconciliation can allow for the remission of the temporal punishment due to sin, it usually does not. Because penances in the old days were so extreme, the idea is that there was a good chance that such penances “got the job done” in terms of also dealing with the temporal punishment situation. Keep in mind that patiently bearing the hardships of this life, whether or not it is part of a penance, can allow for purifying the soul of the taint of past sins.
Note how all this is worded in the Baltimore Catechism:
“Does the sacrament of Penance, worthily received, always take away all punishment?
The sacrament of Penance, worthily received, always takes away all eternal punishment; but it does not always take away all temporal punishment.” (Baltimore Catechism #422)
“What are the chief means of satisfying the debt of our temporal punishment, besides the penance imposed after confession?
Besides the penance imposed after confession, the chief means of satisfying the debt of our temporal punishment are: prayer, attending Mass, fasting, almsgiving, the works of mercy, the patient endurance of sufferings, and indulgences.” (Baltimore Catechism #425)
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Michael1966
Guest
Does anyone know the origin of the teaching that we must still face punishment for sin?
Personally I can see an argument for final sanctification (the removal of tendency to sin, as nothing impure enters heaven, Revelation 21:27) , but I don’t know where the idea of punishment for sins that our Lord took upon Himself on the cross came from. It’s interesting that the last two popes have pulled back from the position of purgatory being a place of punishment.
Personally I can see an argument for final sanctification (the removal of tendency to sin, as nothing impure enters heaven, Revelation 21:27) , but I don’t know where the idea of punishment for sins that our Lord took upon Himself on the cross came from. It’s interesting that the last two popes have pulled back from the position of purgatory being a place of punishment.
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Bookcat
Guest
To highlight “purification” is just that …it is not to say it is not also regarding temporal punishment…It’s interesting that the last two popes have pulled back from the position of purgatory being… of punishment.
Bl Pope John Paul II issued the Catechism which yes teaches about the purification of purgatory …but also teaches about temporal punishment
Pope Benedict XVI issued the Compendium that also teaches about the purification involved with purgatory …but it also contains references to temporal punishment
One can say that “purification” includes temporal punishment …and it is the more important aspect
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Michael1966
Guest
Thanks Bookcat. I still found it interesting that the last two Popes, when they spoke or wrote individually on purgatory did not describe it as a place of punishment, but one of sanctification. I trust they chose their language carefully on this matter.
JP-II: ewtn.com/library/papaldoc/jp2heavn.htm#Purgatory
B-XV (para 45): vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20071130_spe-salvi_en.html
Appreciating that we probably differ on our views on purgatory.
God bless +
JP-II: ewtn.com/library/papaldoc/jp2heavn.htm#Purgatory
B-XV (para 45): vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20071130_spe-salvi_en.html
Appreciating that we probably differ on our views on purgatory.
God bless +
B
Bookcat
Guest
The Teaching of the Church involves both aspects.Thanks Bookcat. I still found it interesting that the last two Popes, when they spoke or wrote individually on purgatory did not describe it as a place of punishment, but one of sanctification. I trust they chose their language carefully on this matter.
JP-II: ewtn.com/library/papaldoc/jp2heavn.htm#Purgatory
B-XV (para 45): vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20071130_spe-salvi_en.html
Appreciating that we probably differ on our views on purgatory.
God bless +
As to my “view” – I tend to the language and the view noted in Spe Salvi by Pope Benedict XVI
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Bookcat
Guest
Blessed Pope John Paul II:Thanks Bookcat. I still found it interesting that the last two Popes, when they spoke or wrote individually on purgatory did not describe it as …punishment, but one of sanctification. I trust they chose their language carefully on this matter.
“For the souls in purgatory, waiting for eternal happiness and for meeting the Beloved is a source of suffering, because of the punishment due to sin which separates them from God. But there is also the certitude that once the time of purification is over, the soul will go to meet the One it desires (cf. Ps 42; 62).”
vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/letters/1998/documents/hf_jp-ii_let_19980602_cluny_en.html
The Teaching of the Church involves both aspects.Appreciating that we probably differ on our views on purgatory.
God bless +
As to my “view” – I tend to the language and the view noted in Spe Salvi by Pope Benedict XVI
(note for readers – it is not to be understood that Pope Benedict XVI does not accept the aspect of temporal punishment …that is not what we are getting at…rather the reference is to the way certain recent theologians have expressed things regarding or discussed purgatory (him being one of them prior to being Pope) (see Spe Salvi))
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