VENT: In regards to # of children

[Tbrightson]

Just trying to figure out why someone would come on a Catholic forum, where most users are practicing Catholics, go to a thread about small families where no one had been talking about contraception

Well I guess if you see a small Catholic family, odds are you are also seeing contraception. So I guess thats the tie-in I thought made the post legitimate.

So pardon me…

BTW not looking to be judged or lectured.

But I do wonder the point of even being Catholic anymore. I mean if I am not repentant of the evil horrible thing I did, why bother? There is no hope for me; its just a matter of how hot its going to get. Feel like taking my kids to Mass is just an act of phonieness on my part.

I also wonder why if the vast majority of Catholic coupled are using contraceptive with no regret, and its pretty obvious with the small family size, why isn’t there is more hell and brimfire from the pulpit? Would it cause a cash flow problem

I have confessed to several Priests, they all blew it off…

 

[Iheartcoffee]

People really need to be careful with their perception of other families and the “right” number of children. I caught myself wondering about a couple once because they were so devoutly Catholic. I admit I wondered why they only had one child. (I never said anything though because that is just plain rude) I learned later while discussing something else entirely that they had tried for more but after a series of miscarriages they realized they were probably only going to have one child together. (As in, only one that makes it to birth). They accepted it as the number God wanted them to have and they stopped worrying so much about the size of their family. It is what it is. If they were to have another it would be a miracle, because they just don’t have a good track record of being able to stay pregnant. Needless to say, I felt like a jerk for secretly wondering why they didn’t have more. They were clearly leaving things up to God and that is just the way it worked out.

 

[anp1215]

Well I guess if you see a small Catholic family, odds are you are also seeing contraception. So I guess thats the tie-in I thought made the post legitimate.

So pardon me…

BTW not looking to be judged or lectured.

But I do wonder the point of even being Catholic anymore. I mean if I am not repentant of the evil horrible thing I did, why bother? There is no hope for me; its just a matter of how hot its going to get. Feel like taking my kids to Mass is just an act of phonieness on my part.

I also wonder why if the vast majority of Catholic coupled are using contraceptive with no regret, and its pretty obvious with the small family size, why isn’t there is more hell and brimfire from the pulpit? Would it cause a cash flow problem

I have confessed to several Priests, they all blew it off…

No, I don’t look at a small family and “see contraception.” I’ve been married 3 years myself and have no kids, so I honestly don’t even think at all about seeing another couple with no, or few, kids. I would say that I figure they have a good reason to not have kids, but the thought doesn’t even cross my mind, so I can’t say that I even think that.

I can only speculate why there isn’t more “hell and brim[stone] from the pulpit.” A lot of priests are probably scared of hurting people’s feelings and turning them away from the Church, which is unfortunate.

Why have you confessed the same sin to several priests? What do you mean by “they all blew it off?” If you brought the matter to Confession, you shouldn’t expect them to lecture you or something. They might give you brief council. Or they might just say the Absolution.

 

[lifeisbeautiful]

Ok, folks. This is part of the problem the OP was talking about. I think we have to try a little harder to connect with the sensitivities of parents with small families. I’m sure it was unintentional on your part here, but if you read your last two sentences, the natural interpretation is that you feel despair when you see small families…or atleast, you don’t feel “hopeful for the Faith” when you see them.

This thread is useful for two things.

1. Helping those with justified animosity towards judgmental outsiders from becoming over-sensitive or suspicious of valid observations and proclamations about the immorality of contraception (especially when such a topic includes the concept of large vs. small families)
2. Helping outsiders to understand their lack of business in private affairs, AND to otherwise carefully choose their words so as not to publicly suggest that small families represent hopelessness, selfishness, or some other vice.

Again, not saying you did this, pollycarp. But it’s a bit representative of a possible problem.

Although people do need to be charitable and sensitive towards others, this does not mean that saying something positive about large families needs to be avoided. Even the Catechism talks about large families:

2373 Sacred Scripture and the Church’s traditional practice see in large families a sign of God’s blessing and the parents’ generosity.163

Obviously it would be ridiculous to say that this is meant to insult smaller families.
I know one very generous and holy couple that has 0 children. I know the cross of infertility for them has been a very, very heavy one. They are a great inspiration to me, and I know they are very instrumental in helping another (large) familly. This couple’s path to holiness includes (so far, still praying for them) no children.

With that being said, I think encouraging and supporting large families is not an attack on smaller ones, and is something that should be done.

Even Pope Benedict said something similar to the PP:
“In the modern social context, families with many children represent a testimony of faith, courage and optimism, because without children there is no future.”

 

[Tbrightson]

No, I don’t look at a small family and “see contraception.” I’ve been married 3 years myself and have no kids, so I honestly don’t even think at all about seeing another couple with no, or few, kids. I would say that I figure they have a good reason to not have kids, but the thought doesn’t even cross my mind, so I can’t say that I even think that.

I can only speculate why there isn’t more “hell and brim[stone] from the pulpit.” A lot of priests are probably scared of hurting people’s feelings and turning them away from the Church, which is unfortunate.

Why have you confessed the same sin to several priests? What do you mean by “they all blew it off?” If you brought the matter to Confession, you shouldn’t expect them to lecture you or something. They might give you brief council. Or they might just say the Absolution.

“I would say that I figure they have a good reason to not have kids”

Im not questioning the REASON, just that the METHOD is probably via contraception.

The brief counsel I have received over the issue has been that its no big deal, dont worry about it.

 

[anp1215]

“I would say that I figure they have a good reason to not have kids”

Im not questioning the REASON, just that the METHOD is probably via contraception.

The brief counsel I have received over the issue has been that its no big deal, dont worry about it.

You didn’t include my full quote.

I would say that I figure they have a good reason to not have kids, but the thought doesn’t even cross my mind, so I can’t say that I even think that.

The thought of why a couple doesn’t have that many kids honestly does not even cross my mind.

It’s unfortunate that you received that kind of counsel.

I don’t want to derail the thread any further over this, though. Peace.

 

[Debora123]

IOW, you are simply asking what is so hard about being asked to mind one’s own business!

Lol, YES!!

 

[CatholicFireman]

Um…one child…no contraception, thank you very much.

You know what happens when you assume…

 

[Annabelle_Marie]

“I would say that I figure they have a good reason to not have kids”

Im not questioning the REASON, just that the METHOD is probably via contraception.

The brief counsel I have received over the issue has been that its no big deal, dont worry about it.

You don’t know that the method is contraception. I am a very private person…I would not share infertility problems with everyone. You just do not know!

 

[_Jenn]

You don’t know that the method is contraception. I am a very private person…I would not share infertility problems with everyone. You just do not know!

EXACTLY!!!

Here’s the bigger question - who here honestly scrutinizes every family they see and wonder about the number of children they have? It’s just as bad as all the complaints about what people wear in church, or who wasn’t there for how many weeks, etc. Good grief - have you NOTHING better to do while you are in church? You know, like, oh, I don’t know - PRAY?

I have a relative like this - this person could tell you, without error, who wasn’t in church who normally is, what people wore, where they sat (and heaven forbid they sat in a different spot than usual), etc.

When I go to church, I couldn’t tell you any of that! I am there to focus on prayer - to focus on my time in God’s house. Yes, I may be able to tell you some people who were there because I sat near them, or spoke with them before and/or after Mass. But I honestly don’t care what they wear, where they sit, who they sit with, etc. Why? Because it is none of my business. Just like it is nobody’s business how many children a couple has.

 

[divinefaith]

I’m sorry I get judgmental about big families. It’s not because I like to disrespect those who like having a certain # no. of children, but because of the teachings I got at school and I still see among many conservative Catholics. I had the impression that the Catholic Church expects many kids from us unless we’re going through a major circumstance. Hearing this made me fear losing my dreams because kids will have to take priority regardless of my ambitions. I then started to dis big families because it was a sight of the strict teachings I had at school.

Im learning to stop making comments about those with 5+ children I’m really starting to look at it as an individual family decision I need to respect.

 

[pollycarp]

yes

I’m sorry. This has just been on my mind because I attend another church where there are only 2-3 kids seen on a Sunday, the church has a dwindling congregation, has no one in the seminary, and I’m very sad for it’s future. I apologize if I seemed judgmental or derailing.

 

[sanctamaria17]

Some people have two or three kids and aren’t using artificial contraception. Some of them have reasons to and some can’t have any more kids. Due to environmental issues and doctors prescribing the pill like it’s candy, infertility is on the rise. One of my newlywed friends found out she has endometriosis. My younger sister has a medical condition she’s treating because, untreated, it’ll lead to infertility (she’s not even twenty). For some, it’s finances-cost of living is different in many places (no, it doesn’t mean they’re living luxuriously). Couples also don’t get married till they’re older.

I would not think of judging a woman with five or more kids. I would also hope that others wouldn’t judge me, regardless of whether my family was big or small.

In addition, I wonder if dwindling churches have to do with how young people are engaged. If the church’s youth are seen as a nuisance, aren’t given opportunities to participate, aren’t given a thorough education, and doesn’t make faith relevant to them, they’re going to leave. When I was at school, university chaplains of all denominations were banging their heads against the wall because off-campus churches would complain about not getting the youth but then act like they didn’t want them around once they came.

 

[CatholicFireman]

You don’t know that the method is contraception. I am a very private person…I would not share infertility problems with everyone. You just do not know!

Thank you! :clapping:

People need to stop assuming.

 

[Tbrightson]

I agree. The fact that you have taken in a child as your own who is not “biologically yours” shows much love and compassion. This action IMHO takes more love and sacrifice than raising a child who is your own offspring. I think that in this you have been given a wonderful opportunity for reparation and it is admirable that you have chosen to adopt this child as your own.

Thanks for the kind words and support…

The little girl has warmed up to me more lately, and I have started to enjoy her more as a result…things are going in the right direction…

Its kinda weird that this little girl’s situation was kind of a consequence of my parents having more kids then they could handle…a domino effect of sorts that
I dont want to elaborate on, at least not publicy. Hopefully our intervention for her will
stop anymore dominoes from falling.

 

[EasterJoy]

I’m sorry. This has just been on my mind because I attend another church where there are only 2-3 kids seen on a Sunday, the church has a dwindling congregation, has no one in the seminary, and I’m very sad for it’s future. I apologize if I seemed judgmental or derailing.

If we mind our own business, we do not risk harming the already broken-hearted in an effort to go after those we fear are hard-hearted.

It may help to remember that the average age of first marriage is much later than it used to be. This will inevitably lead to smaller families, and there is nothing inherently immoral about that. Neither is it immoral that couples, to be blunt, are sometimes too tired or otherwise suffering from issues that stand in the way of the kind of frequency that previous generations may have taken for granted:

This is from the Dr. Phil website, which was convenient:

*Married couples say they have sex an average of 68.5 times a year. That’s slightly more than once a week. — Newsweek

Married people have 6.9 more sexual encounters per year than people who have never been married. — Newsweek

15 to 20 percent of couples have sex no more than 10 times a year, which experts define as a sexless marriage. — Newsweek

20 to 30 percent of men and 30 to 50 percent of women say they have little or no sex drive. — USA Today

25 percent of all Americans (a third of women and a fifth of men) suffer from a condition known as hypoactive sexual desire (HSD), which is defined as a persistent or recurring deficiency or absence of sexual fantasies or thoughts, or a lack of interest in sex or being sexual. — Psychology Today*

So I think the better thing to do is to realize that when you’re looking at a small family, you may easily be looking at a family that got pregnant as often as nature and their circumstances allowed, with no moral failure on their part. Judging that the couple did not want more children is not necessary to explain a small family size. Since we are bound to put the most charitable view on the circumstances of others, let’s do that, then.

 

[FatherOfTwelve]

I’m sorry I get judgmental about big families. It’s not because I like to disrespect those who like having a certain # no. of children, but because of the teachings I got at school and I still see among many conservative Catholics. I had the impression that the Catholic Church expects many kids from us unless we’re going through a major circumstance. Hearing this made me fear losing my dreams because kids will have to take priority regardless of my ambitions. I then started to dis big families because it was a sight of the strict teachings I had at school.

Im learning to stop making comments about those with 5+ children I’m really starting to look at it as an individual family decision I need to respect.