Vent/Rant against non denominational Lack of Oversight

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Oh my! This is horrible! I am so sorry this happened to your Niece.

Get a background check done on this guy, get a Private Eye to do a background investigation on him also. Talk to your lawer, which you have. Also, try and spend time with your niece every day if possible. Become a Rock for her to build her house on, it seems the rest of her life right now is a sandy beach with unsure foundations.
 
BTW, I know Jesus is the only Rock for her to build her house on in a spiritual sense, I just mean in the real world secular sense.
 
sj, i am so sorry to hear about this. hopefully we have some attorney’s or crime agents of some sort on this site that can give you specific advice.

praying for you and your family.
 
With your niece breaking down after it was put to her what would her dad would think, it is looking like he is now trying to control her… You should call the police.

Keep you all in my prayers!
 
My attorney called early this morning, and is strongly advising me to consider what may happen if any action is taken against the minister man. He warns me that I could loose my relationship with my niece, and never see the baby. He also told me that (as a christian, not as my lawyer) that I shouldn’t interfere if they do intend and once they do marry. He also thinks the mother (my niece’s)should be on board with this, and at this point she is not sure what course of action to take. He spoke with her after he called me to get all the information he could from her that I don’t have.
We are all still waiting to hear from her, and are hoping she will be able to talk to us without him present. I do want to talk to her more, our call was cut short and there are still some things I would like to know. I want to know if drugs or drinking were involved. We also want to get her to a doctor right away to have an exam to see where she and the baby are health wise. She needs medical care during this pregnancy, proper check-ups and all that goes with that. I hope he is not against medical care. She is so tiny, she looks like a child. A child having a child.
I have left calls, finished my letters which my attorney is reviewing, and will have more to work with as soon as I can wiegh all this out. I may want to consult another attorney to make sure this is the best way to approach this. I wish her mother would come to a decision soon. We will appear to have a stronger front if we all agree how to do this.
 
StrawberryJam said:
My attorney called early this morning, and is strongly advising me to consider what may happen if any action is taken against the minister man. He warns me that I could loose my relationship with my niece, and never see the baby. He also told me that (as a christian, not as my lawyer) that I shouldn’t interfere if they do intend and once they do marry. He also thinks the mother (my niece’s)should be on board with this, and at this point she is not sure what course of action to take. He spoke with her after he called me to get all the information he could from her that I don’t have.
We are all still waiting to hear from her, and are hoping she will be able to talk to us without him present. I do want to talk to her more, our call was cut short and there are still some things I would like to know. I want to know if drugs or drinking were involved. We also want to get her to a doctor right away to have an exam to see where she and the baby are health wise. She needs medical care during this pregnancy, proper check-ups and all that goes with that. I hope he is not against medical care. She is so tiny, she looks like a child. A child having a child.
I have left calls, finished my letters which my attorney is reviewing, and will have more to work with as soon as I can wiegh all this out. I may want to consult another attorney to make sure this is the best way to approach this. I wish her mother would come to a decision soon. We will appear to have a stronger front if we all agree how to do this.
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What type of practice does your attorney have? is he a general practitioner or does he specialize in something? If what happened as against the law (age/consent) and he told you not to interfere, he could be in big trouble. I don’t say that to add stuff to your plate, but you need an attorney that will tell you what the law says and will prosecute accordingly.

I will continue praying for your niece and her mother. Also, I pray that you will be given clear guidance on how to deal with this situation the best way possible.

I am very sorry that you are going through all this.
 
StrawberryJam, as an attorney myself, I would strongly advise you not to post what your attorney tells you, as it waives the attorney client privilege. You may not care, but that sort of thing can come back to bite you. Just a tip, may want to revise your post a bit and not disclose the contents of the attorney’s communications to you. Maybe something like, “after talking to my attorney, I’ve decided that maybe I ought to…”
 
SonofMonica said:
StrawberryJam, as an attorney myself, I would strongly advise you not to post what your attorney tells you, as it waives the attorney client privilege. You may not care, but that sort of thing can come back to bite you. Just a tip, may want to revise your post a bit and not disclose the contents of the attorney’s communications to you. Maybe something like, “after talking to my attorney, I’ve decided that maybe I ought to…”
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Thanks for that tip, it’s too late to edit but I will remember this. Not thinking straight now.

THANKS TO ALL OF YOU FOR YOUR PRAYERS AND CONCERN
 
Sonofmonica…

Do attorneys give pretty much the same advice or do they differ?..do you switch to find an attorney that shares same convictions…and to win?

Sounds like the man is a predator…and with his control…he is sick.
 
KathleenGee said:
Sonofmonica…

Do attorneys give pretty much the same advice or do they differ?..do you switch to find an attorney that shares same convictions…and to win?

Sounds like the man is a predator…and with his control…he is sick.
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The update:

She sent me an email telling me they are “married in the eyes of God” and she will be back home in a few days but she wants us to “give him a chance” for her sake.

What the heck is he telling her? Where is he getting this idea from? How can they be married in the eyes of God? What the…:confused:
 
KathleenGee said:
Sonofmonica…

Do attorneys give pretty much the same advice or do they differ?..do you switch to find an attorney that shares same convictions…and to win?

Sounds like the man is a predator…and with his control…he is sick.
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They absolutely differ. The law is the law (in a particular state or jurisdiction), but what to do with it is a matter of personal conviction, practical experience, and the goal the attorney and client have set. Winning is always the goal of the attorney, but sometimes the client’s best interest is not to “win” but achieve something else that is important (protection, security, an apology, assurances, etc.). So I guess you could redefine “win.”
 

The church should follow Matthew 18. If the man does not submit to discipline, what he did should be made public within the Chrsitian community. (This is assuming your side of the story is accurate). I could be angry about this abuse too.​

That being said, this is not a non-denominational issue. All religions have leaders misusing their positions to get innocient women and children to do things they should not be forced to do. I hope you get my drift.
 
Dokimas said:

The church should follow Matthew 18. If the man does not submit to discipline, what he did should be made public within the Chrsitian community. (This is assuming your side of the story is accurate). I could be angry about this abuse too.​

That being said, this is not a non-denominational issue. All religions have leaders misusing their positions to get innocient women and children to do things they should not be forced to do. I hope you get my drift.
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Maybe you can help me here. The latest update is that she sent me an email telling me they are “married in the eyes of God”

??? How so???
 
Dokimas said:

The church should follow Matthew 18. If the man does not submit to discipline, what he did should be made public within the Chrsitian community. (This is assuming your side of the story is accurate). I could be angry about this abuse too.​

That being said, this is not a non-denominational issue. All religions have leaders misusing their positions to get innocient women and children to do things they should not be forced to do. I hope you get my drift.
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Yes, they do. All men are sinners. However, the OP is complaining that there is no authority to take it to, due to a lack of oversight. So it is a non-denominational issue. If this were the Catholic Church, you may see those charged with oversight failing to exercise that oversight responsibly. But the OP is complaining that there is no such oversight, if I’m understanding him/her correctly.
 
Sonofmonica,

Thanks for clarifying…Now is the time for me to start praying…

Strawberry Jam,

I will pray very much that you get the best and wisest legal help, and for your niece and that she get help very soon…I pray now in faith that this situation will end soon regarding my immediate the impression that she is entrapped and confused…and that things will work out one step at a time…for God’s glory, and in Christ good will eventually come out.

kathleen
 
StrawberryJam said:
The update:

She sent me an email telling me they are “married in the eyes of God” and she will be back home in a few days but she wants us to “give him a chance” for her sake.

What the heck is he telling her? Where is he getting this idea from? How can they be married in the eyes of God? What the…:confused:
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The further one gets away from the authority of the Church, the wackier the notions become. Who is her guardian, I missed that?
 
Somehow the facts of the situation have kept us from the real issue. If this were a church of nearly any established denomination, RC, United Methodist, Greek or Russian Orthodox, Episcopal, Presbyterian, etc., there would be appropriate recourse. This church, being “non-denominational” has no oversight.

Many years ago, a lay youth leader had sexual relations with a young girl in Upland CA. The youth leader was the brother of the church’s rector. Only this year, the rector, who had risen to be Episcopal Bishop of Pennsylvania, was deposed and laicized. About 4 years ago, the brother, rector of a church in California, was persuaded to step down from his position and resign his clerical state. I admit it takes a long time. The RCC is dealing with victims now in middle age.

But, as imperfect as it is, when there is oversight, there is the possibility keeping predators from continuing in church employ. Independent churches do not have this kind of protection.

As to the situation at hand, how many girls have been victimized by him but been lucky enough to not become preggers?
 
I think there are 2 very different issues at stake here. The first is; was there a crime committed. This is an issue for law enforcement and would be handled at that level. It would be up to the DA to determine if charges were justified.

The second issue is the marriage and the child. This is a difficult decision and should be made in light of what is best for the child and her baby. This man is obviously troubled and may or may not be the best thing for them at this time. I think I would want as much information regarding this man and his past as possible. Talk to the senior pastor of the church. Talk to his family, find out his past. Then, with those results and the results of the legal investigation, you can make an informed decision regarding supporting their marriage or not. Heck, he may go to jail for this so it may not even be an issue.

As far as already being married; thats a crock. He is polluting her mind with this to convince her that he did nothing wrong.

I will pray for youo and your family.
 
Usbek_de_Perse said:
Somehow the facts of the situation have kept us from the real issue. If this were a church of nearly any established denomination, RC, United Methodist, Greek or Russian Orthodox, Episcopal, Presbyterian, etc., there would be appropriate recourse. This church, being “non-denominational” has no oversight.
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You’ve got it spot on.
 
He must have performed some religious wedding ceremony with at least one witness where vows were exchanged. The marriage must not be state liscensed and recognized yet. That is all I can think of with what your niece is saying.
 
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