Venting about watching my church break communion with Rome

[revert_jen]

I used to get upset about this sort of thing. But I stopped. Life is too short to get embroiled in politics and struggles. This liberal priest must be within the pale of orthodoxy, or else this priest’s boss, the bishop, would remove him. The person you are really accusing of evil is not this priest, but bishop who oversees this priest.

It is insulting to orthodox liberals to equate heresy with liberalism. Unless you are just saying you don’t believe the OP, it’s clearly not just liberalism that is going on. Someone who refuses to say the Creed unaltered has a serious problem.

Do you have evidence that the bishop is aware of this behavior? It takes real courage to report something to the bishop, and besides, a lot of people still think, “If it wasn’t OK, Father wouldn’t be doing it.”

But far, far, far, far better is you and I not to be angry and not to pass judgment on either this priest or on the bishop who supervises him.

It is necessary to differentiate between judging a person’s actions and judging the condition of someone’s soul. I saw no evidence that the OP was doing the latter. I didn’t see anyone on this thread (except you) assuming the OP’s bishop already knew about the problem and didn’t care about it.

Go to another parish if you want. But you and I must see ourselves as greater sinners in the eyes of God than this liberal priest. Otherwise, we go down the path of the spiritual Pharisee, who prayed this:

Luke 18:11: “God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector.”

But you’re not judging anyone, right? You aren’t saying that by complaining about the behavior of the priest, the OP is exhibiting spiritual pride, right?

Personally I do not see any benefit to comparing my level of sin with anyone else’s. There are a lot of things wrong with going around thinking “I’m more sinful than that guy” about everyone I see:

• I can’t know whether it’s true or not–It’s hard enough to figure out my own sins; I have no idea what other people’s “sin level” is
• It’s not my business whether it’s true or not–The state of someone else’s soul (even if it’s a great state) is really none of my business.
• It’s probably not always true–Given the law of averages, I’m likely to be wrong sometimes. It seems almost prideful to assume that I am the greatest sinner in the whole world.

So I completely disagree with the idea that I must go around thinking I’m more sinful than specific other people. It would leave me trying to (sometimes) believe a lie about myself as I concentrate on something that I don’t know and is none of my business.

It’s enough to think about my sins as they caused Jesus pain on the cross, and how they damage my relationship with God, and how ungrateful it is of me to return God’s infinite love with sin–without trying to compare myself to other people, either to say I’m better or to say I’m worse.

–Jen

 

[Semper_Zelare]

It is insulting to orthodox liberals to equate heresy with liberalism. Unless you are just saying you don’t believe the OP, it’s clearly not just liberalism that is going on. Someone who refuses to say the Creed unaltered has a serious problem.

I thought I might inquire as to who would qualify as an “orthodox liberal”. It was my understanding that orthodoxy was much the same as Margaret Thatcher’s view on crime:

“Crime is crime is crime, it is not political, it is crime… there can be no questioning of whether a criminal’s status is political”

“Orthodoxy is Orthodoxy is Orthodoxy, it is not political, it is Orthodoxy… there can be no use of political labels to describe those who are Orthodox”

That was my understanding. Am I not correct?

And yes, I agree with the calls to say something to the Bishop. I personally would be delighted to report something to my Bishop… he is a very good and holy man. However, he’s doing his job so well that instead of reporting liturgical abuses or renegade priests, I’ll probably be praising my priests instead :yup:

 

[The_Holy_War_11]

The Church should have an 911 emergency phone line for reporting this stuff!

“This is the Congregation for the doctrine of the faith, what is your emergency?”

" Yes sir, stay on the line, help is arriving shortly"

Cershkshisk “Roger Father Charlie, this is Father Oscar. We got a heresy over here.”

It’s funny because Charlie and Oscar…you know…phenetic alp- aw forget it!

 

[PeterJohn]

We tend to throw around the “contact your bishop” line here a lot. But you really, really, really need to contact your bishop for this one, and as soon as possible. Be objective and report facts. And do it quickly. This isn’t just liturgical abuse, it is plain heresy.

Agreed

 

[Jegudiel]

FWIW, based on what you have written below, your parish is not bring communion with Rome…

Hi, I just wanted to vent because I’ve been watching things unfold at my church since a new priest arrived and now I am going to have to quit my local parish church. I’m heart broken over it. This is the church where I became a Catholic at the Easter Vigil a couple of years ago. It’s the church where I used to pray in front of the Tabernacle while I waited to become Catholic because I longed for Communion.

Long story short, it started with the new priest rarely wearing the chasuble and using gender-neutral language (ie. referring to God as “God” instead of “He”). I tried to be patient and put up with this because I didn’t want to be critical. But then the priest started ad libbing to the prayers from the Missal. He started adding “other denominations” after praying for the Pope, Bishop, etc. during the prayers at the altar. Recently, he started saying “Father and Mother” at every reference to “Father” in the Creed. Plus, everything is always a big joke. I brought my Protestant father to Good Friday with me and I was embarassed. The priest made jokes multiple times in the Good Friday service! Plus at Easter, he said the Church was excluding women. I was planning to leave over the “Father and Mother” Creed stuff but as if that wasn’t enough, I’m wondering if the Mass was valid yesterday . . . in the homily, he compared Communion with the presence of Christ to going to the nearby pub where sharing a table there is also sacred.

Anyway, I suppoed this isn’t shocking to most because you’ve probably experienced this kind of stuff occasionally but for me, I’m so sad because I left Protestantism because the one true Church is also the one Church that actual has rules and order and while I knew that some priests might have lightweight or left wing homilies, I didn’t expect them to be so bold like mine is being.

 

[Phemie]

I feel for you and hope you would not be the only person contacting the bishop. But in my experience, a priest such as you describe is generally seen as a great guy who gives great homilies by most of the parish.

I’ve seen that in my own parish, where Fr. Never-genuflect who gives his homilies from “Chicken Soup for the Soul” and won’t sit in the confessional or schedule regular confession time and cracks jokes during the Consecration is thought to be a wonderful priest by all but a handful. I was there when the Bishop complained about what he was using as an altar cloth (a multicoloured cloth that the bishop compared to ‘an old headscarf’) and heard him reply, “I know you don’t like it but I do and I’m not changing it.”

 

[etmom]

I feel for you and hope you would not be the only person contacting the bishop. But in my experience, a priest such as you describe is generally seen as a great guy who gives great homilies by most of the parish.

I’ve seen that in my own parish, where Fr. Never-genuflect who gives his homilies from “Chicken Soup for the Soul” and won’t sit in the confessional or schedule regular confession time and cracks jokes during the Consecration is thought to be a wonderful priest by all but a handful. I was there when the Bishop complained about what he was using as an altar cloth (a multicoloured cloth that the bishop compared to ‘an old headscarf’) and heard him reply, “I know you don’t like it but I do and I’m not changing it.”

Yikes! Way to be obedient to the bishop…

 

[Phemie]

Yikes! Way to be obedient to the bishop…

This is the same priest who, at the first Sunday Mass after a visit by the newly installed bishop, genuflected after the first Elevation then looked at the congregation and said “Be sure to let the Bishop know,”, thereby triggering much laughter. He had never genuflected during Mass before nor has he since.

Once we started using the new translation I had to show him that because of the way the Missal was laid out, instead of continuing the Eucharistic Prayer after we said the Memorial Acclamation, he was reciting the last of the Memorial Acclamations then continuing the EP. That was an easy mistake due to the layout.

But then he was changing another part of EPII and in the section where he’s supposed to pray with “our Pope, our Bishop and all the clergy” he was saying "and all “God’s holy people.” I asked him why he wasn’t praying for the clergy or whether he meant that they were only the ones who could be called “God’s holy people”? He did start reading the words as written after I asked but not before saying “Oh, I don’t have to worry about things like that in my other parishes.”

Of course he doesn’t, because he celebrates Mass there in a language that is only spoken by about 10,000 people in the entire world. None of the people who attend can read Latin and many can’t read English if they can read at all – most of the elders are illiterate. They don’t know what the original text actually says so they can’t tell if what he says in their language is correct or not.

 

[legaleagle]

Wow, thanks for all your answers and comments. I do feel the Bishop needs to know but I’ve been scared to do anything yet because I thought I’d need to speak with the priest first and that terrifies me. One of my friends wrote him a letter a couple of weeks ago and he received no reply. Another friend went to speak with him and he had an answer for everything she brought up. So, I’m dreading the idea of making an appointment with him. The Bishop is going to be in town next week . . .

I saddens me to see this happening before my eyes . . . and it started out very subtly.

God bless you and thanks for your prayers for my priest and my parish.

 

[Stylites]

. . . I’m so sad because I left Protestantism because the one true Church is also the one Church that actual has rules and order and while I knew that some priests might have lightweight or left wing homilies, I didn’t expect them to be so bold like mine is being.

“Actually has rules and order” might be a strong draw, apart from the Real Presence in the Holy Eucharist and chasubles. Seriously, you should feel blessed at having a Catholic priest at all there to hand you Holy Communion and to help you grow in the spirit rather than sad at his words.

 

[Stylites]

I used to get upset about this sort of thing. But I stopped. Life is too short to get embroiled in politics and struggles. This liberal priest must be within the pale of orthodoxy, or else this priest’s boss, the bishop, would remove him. The person you are really accusing of evil is not this priest, but bishop who oversees this priest.

But far, far, far, far better is you and I not to be angry and not to pass judgment on either this priest or on the bishop who supervises him.

Far, far, far, far better is for you and I to pass judgment on ourselves according to the standards set in the Teachings of Christ.

Just take this standard for instance:

1 John 4:20 If anyone says, “I love God,” yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.

Are you and I loving others–neighbors, co-workers, rivals, relatives, customers, bosses, clients, enemies, strangers and sinners as we ought to be?

Are you and I the saints that we ought to be?

We feel peace and enjoy other spiritual fruits when we judge and correct ourselves.

We feel chaos and anger when we judgment and wish to correct others.

Go to another parish if you want. But you and I must see ourselves as greater sinners in the eyes of God than this liberal priest. Otherwise, we go down the path of the spiritual Pharisee, who prayed this:

Luke 18:11: “God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector.”

Jesus:

Matthew 20:16: “So the last will be first, and the first will be last.”

Well said. I once heard a priest say in a homily about the chronic complainers of his day: “If you don’t like the quality of vocations today, then step up to the plate and become a priest yourself, if you think you could do better than others!”

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Well said. I once heard a priest say in a homily about the chronic complainers of his day: “If you don’t like the quality of vocations today, then step up to the plate and become a priest yourself, if you think you could do better than others!”

We are all called to be aware of abuses of the Holy Sacrifice of the Eucharist. It is not “chronic complaining” to let the Bishop know of these abuses. We should not sit back and “be grateful” for anything at all.

 

[Stylites]

We are all called to be aware of abuses of the Holy Sacrifice of the Eucharist. It is not “chronic complaining” to let the Bishop know of these abuses. We should not sit back and “be grateful” for anything at all.

Changing the words in the Creed would be an abuse, if it ever happened, which we don’t really know for a fact. Nothing else mentioned was worthy of having conniptions over, or reliving Exodus for.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

This is the same priest who, at the first Sunday Mass after a visit by the newly installed bishop, genuflected after the first Elevation then looked at the congregation and said “Be sure to let the Bishop know,”, thereby triggering much laughter. He had never genuflected during Mass before nor has he since.

Once we started using the new translation I had to show him that because of the way the Missal was laid out, instead of continuing the Eucharistic Prayer after we said the Memorial Acclamation, he was reciting the last of the Memorial Acclamations then continuing the EP. That was an easy mistake due to the layout.

But then he was changing another part of EPII and in the section where he’s supposed to pray with “our Pope, our Bishop and all the clergy” he was saying "and all “God’s holy people.” I asked him why he wasn’t praying for the clergy or whether he meant that they were only the ones who could be called “God’s holy people”? He did start reading the words as written after I asked but not before saying “Oh, I don’t have to worry about things like that in my other parishes.”

Of course he doesn’t, because he celebrates Mass there in a language that is only spoken by about 10,000 people in the entire world. None of the people who attend can read Latin and many can’t read English if they can read at all – most of the elders are illiterate. They don’t know what the original text actually says so they can’t tell if what he says in their language is correct or not.

This is also very - worthy!

He is mocking God within the Mass itself!

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Changing the words in the Creed would be an abuse, if it ever happened, which we don’t really know for a fact. Nothing else mentioned was worthy of having conniptions over, or reliving Exodus for.

That is YOUR opinion. I would let the Bishop know exactly what happened and then leave it to him but I would not return to that church.

Don’t mock by using the word “conniption” or saying that leave a church is “reliving Exodus.” This is a new Catholic who is being confused by this rebel priest. People leave the faith over things like this.

 

[Stylites]

The Church should have an 911 emergency phone line for reporting this stuff!

“This is the Congregation for the doctrine of the faith, what is your emergency?”

" Yes sir, stay on the line, help is arriving shortly"

Hahaha. Great idea. Or another idea would be to join your local St. Vincent de Paul Society and carry a pager for a week to be alerted to neighbors who need assistance in their lives.

 

[legaleagle]

Well said. I once heard a priest say in a homily about the chronic complainers of his day: “If you don’t like the quality of vocations today, then step up to the plate and become a priest yourself, if you think you could do better than others!”

Well considering I’m a woman, I can’t become a priest myself. . . but then again, that’s exactly what my priest wants . . . he’s preached a few times about the “inequalities” between the sexes in our Church and says women are excluded.

Changing the words in the Creed would be an abuse, if it ever happened, which we don’t really know for a fact. Nothing else mentioned was worthy of having conniptions over, or reliving Exodus for.

As for your doubt that he actually did what I said . . . I didn’t post on here to make a legal case with evidence. Being an anonymous forum, I posted on here for advice so it would be pointless to lie about this. Also, the week after he first added “mother” to the Creed, he prefaced the Creed by saying that we should do what we’re comfortable with but that he would be adding “mother” to every reference to “Father” because, in his words, God is our Father, mother, brother and friend.

As for being thankful to have a priest. I pray for my priest daily and I pray for vocations, etc. I can’t be thankful if the person giving me Communion believes the Holy Sacrifice of my Lord’s Body and Blood are equal to a meal at a pub - - read my original post!

That is YOUR opinion. I would let the Bishop know exactly what happened and then leave it to him but I would not return to that church.

Don’t mock by using the word “conniption” or saying that leave a church is “reliving Exodus.” This is a new Catholic who is being confused by this rebel priest. People leave the faith over things like this.

Thanks, TheRealJuliane.

 

[Marchmain1987]

Hahaha. Great idea. Or another idea would be to join your local St. Vincent de Paul Society and carry a pager for a week to be alerted to neighbors who need assistance in their lives.

Ouch.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Hahaha. Great idea. Or another idea would be to join your local St. Vincent de Paul Society and carry a pager for a week to be alerted to neighbors who need assistance in their lives.

I agree, we should all be more aware of the needs of our neighbors. However, we can hopefully do both - be concerned about the integrity and orthodoxy or the Mass, and our neighbors needs. No where does the Church say that the corporal and spiritual works of mercy are mutually exclusive.

 

[Jegudiel]

I feel for you and hope you would not be the only person contacting the bishop. But in my experience, a priest such as you describe is generally seen as a great guy who gives great homilies by most of the parish.

I’ve seen that in my own parish, where Fr. Never-genuflect who gives his homilies from “Chicken Soup for the Soul” and won’t sit in the confessional or schedule regular confession time and cracks jokes during the Consecration is thought to be a wonderful priest by all but a handful. I was there when the Bishop complained about what he was using as an altar cloth (a multicoloured cloth that the bishop compared to ‘an old headscarf’) and heard him reply, "I know you don’t like it but I do and I’m not changing it."

It sounds like that priest literally needs a good old-fashioned paddling from his bishop…