A
AnneTeresa
Guest
I believe there is a Scripture about God disciplining us. Does anyone know where it is? Also, what does that mean? What does God do when He disciplines us, I mean practical ways He does that.
- Status
T
tbcrawford
Guest
Hi Anne Teresa is this the verse you were thinking of? I don’t know if this is of any help!
Hebrews 12:8-9
8 If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. 9 Besides this, we have had earthly fathers to discipline us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live?
Since we respect our fathers here on earth, though they punish us, should we not all the more cheerfully submit to God’s training so that we can begin really to live?" (Hebrews 12:8-9,)
We know that we shouldn’t take things out of context. We should try to understand the subject of Hebrews 12. The main thrust of this chapter is learning to endure with faith as a Christian. The section that refers to God’s chastising is from verses 5-24, . God loves us all very much and as a good parent may feel that we need to be corrected and disciplined. Tests and trials are part and parcel of this human life.
God may punish us because we are sinning about something and are making no effort to overcome a certain sin in our life. Then again, it may not be a serious sin, but rather that God knows what we need in the way of correction and shaping in our character. He then creates circumstances that will put us through some kind of test or trial to develop the part of our character that God sees that we are lacking in.
Just my humble opinion hope it helps God bless
Hebrews 12:8-9
8 If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. 9 Besides this, we have had earthly fathers to discipline us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live?
Since we respect our fathers here on earth, though they punish us, should we not all the more cheerfully submit to God’s training so that we can begin really to live?" (Hebrews 12:8-9,)
We know that we shouldn’t take things out of context. We should try to understand the subject of Hebrews 12. The main thrust of this chapter is learning to endure with faith as a Christian. The section that refers to God’s chastising is from verses 5-24, . God loves us all very much and as a good parent may feel that we need to be corrected and disciplined. Tests and trials are part and parcel of this human life.
God may punish us because we are sinning about something and are making no effort to overcome a certain sin in our life. Then again, it may not be a serious sin, but rather that God knows what we need in the way of correction and shaping in our character. He then creates circumstances that will put us through some kind of test or trial to develop the part of our character that God sees that we are lacking in.
Just my humble opinion hope it helps God bless
R
roseo64
Guest
another word for discipline is obedience. thus …“the 10 commandments”.
with Christmas upon us Luke:2:51–where Jesus obeys his parents.
Romans:6:15-23–obediance from the heart.
Romans:13
and obediance or discipline in prayer when Jesus gave us the “our Father”
with Christmas upon us Luke:2:51–where Jesus obeys his parents.
Romans:6:15-23–obediance from the heart.
Romans:13
and obediance or discipline in prayer when Jesus gave us the “our Father”
N
Nita
Guest
*Deuteronomy 8:5 Know then in your heart that, as a man disciplines his son, the LORD your God disciplines you. *
In the OT, God disciplined the Israelites (punished them) when they did wrong.
His discipline may take many forms. As well as for puposes of punishment, He may allow hardships to train us in the virtues (patience, prudence, etc.)
Discipline is a good thing. Loving parents discipline their children when they do wrong for the purpose of getting them to cease doing wrong. Because they love them, they care about their welfare - not only here on earth, but their eternal welfare above all.
In the OT, God disciplined the Israelites (punished them) when they did wrong.
His discipline may take many forms. As well as for puposes of punishment, He may allow hardships to train us in the virtues (patience, prudence, etc.)
Discipline is a good thing. Loving parents discipline their children when they do wrong for the purpose of getting them to cease doing wrong. Because they love them, they care about their welfare - not only here on earth, but their eternal welfare above all.
A
AnneTeresa
Guest
I think Hebrews is what I was thinking of.
So what do you think these verses mean in a practical way today? Not the OT, how do you think God does this today in our lives? … I’m wondering how we would recognize when we are being disciplined, does life go very wrong in some way, or what? And what does “he scourges every son” mean? How does he reprove us?
For those whom the Lord loves he disciplines, and he scourges every son whom he receives.
He disciplines us for our good, that we may share His holiness.
Do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor faint when you are reproved by him.
So what do you think these verses mean in a practical way today? Not the OT, how do you think God does this today in our lives? … I’m wondering how we would recognize when we are being disciplined, does life go very wrong in some way, or what? And what does “he scourges every son” mean? How does he reprove us?
For those whom the Lord loves he disciplines, and he scourges every son whom he receives.
He disciplines us for our good, that we may share His holiness.
Do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor faint when you are reproved by him.
N
Nita
Guest
At first, I think we often don’t recognize that difficulties we encounter could be God disciplining and leading us. Many times it’s after the fact that someone sees how the difficulty worked for good in their life. For example, I’m sure you’ve heard stories by some who had tragedies (eg. accident that left them paralyzed) - but it was thru that very tragedy that they sought & found God, and changed their minds and hearts.
As one progresses in the spiritual life, I think one learns to look at any hardship, even little annoyances, and see them as “being allowed” by God for some good purpose – as an opportunity to practice a virtue that we are weak in, or as an opportunity to share in Our Lord’s suffering and offer it up for the salvation of souls.
Sometimes, I think when we commit sins against others (say gossip), God may allow us to be on the receiving end of the same type of sin at some point. In that way, we experience the pain we caused. Hopefully the pain will bring about repentance for our sin, and forgiveness for the one who sinned against us. (Similar to Jacob in the OT. He used trickery to get the blessing - Genesis 27. Later Jacob experiences trickery at the hands of Laban – Genesis 29:15–30.)
So, in trying to determine whether or not the hardship is God’s discipline, I would say:
- Examine your life to see if there is any connection to some sinfulness in your life.
Do I do something similar to others?
Is it a direct result of sin on my part (eg. disease resulting from immoral behavior)? - Examine the hardship to see what virtue is needed to accept and cope with the hardship.
Is it a virtue you have been trying to develop, perhaps even prayed about and asked for?
Is it a virtue you are weak in?
If so, it may be God helping you to grow in it by allowing situations that are opportunities for you to practice it.
T
tbcrawford
Guest
Hi Anne Teresa
My understanding of the verses you mention are that they may relate to purgatory where we may need to be purged of our sins
Hebrews 12:5-7, 11-13
Brothers and sisters, You have forgotten the exhortation addressed to you as children: “My son, do not disdain the discipline of the Lord or lose heart when reproved by him; for whom the Lord loves, he disciplines; he scourges every son he acknowledges.” Endure your trials as “discipline”; God treats you as sons. For what “son” is there whom his father does not discipline? At the time, all discipline seems a cause not for joy but for pain, yet later it brings the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who are trained by it
Heb 12:29
For our God is a consuming fire.
Heb 12:6,10
For whom the Lord loves, he disciplines; he scourges every son he acknowledges. … but he does so for our benefit, in order that we may share his holiness.
Jesus implies that our sins can be forgiven in the next world.
Mt 12:32
And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
Purgatory is a sign of God’s mercy on those who have honestly sought to know God and to do His will in this life and yet die in some degree of bondage to sin or the effects of sin.
We are deprived of the vision of God because of our sinfulness. But there is a divine purging fire which can heal us.
Catechism of the Catholic Church, Section 1472
To understand this doctrine and practice of the Church, it is necessary to understand that sin has a double consequence. Grave sin deprives us of communion with God and therefore makes us incapable of eternal life, the privation of which is called the “eternal punishment” of sin. On the other hand every sin, even venial, entails an unhealthy attachment to creatures, which must be purified either here on earth, or after death in the state called Purgatory. This purification frees one from what is called the “temporal punishment” of sin. These two punishments must not be conceived of as a kind of vengeance inflicted by God from without, but as following from the very nature of sin. A conversion which proceeds from a fervent charity can attain the complete purification of the sinner in such a way that no punishment would remain.
Luke 13:22-30
So strengthen your drooping hands and your weak knees. Make straight paths for your feet, that what is lame may not be disjointed but healed.
Jesus passed through towns and villages, teaching as he went and making his way to Jerusalem. Someone asked him, “Lord, will only a few people be saved?” He answered them, “Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I tell you, will attempt to enter but will not be strong enough. After the master of the house has arisen and locked the door, then will you stand outside knocking and saying, ‘Lord, open the door for us.’
He will say to you in reply, ‘I do not know where you are from. And you will say, ‘We ate and drank in your company and you taught in our streets.’ Then he will say to you, ‘I do not know where you are from. Depart from me, all you evildoers!’ And there will be wailing and grinding of teeth when you see Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God and you yourselves cast out. And people will come from the east and the west and from the north and the south and will recline at table in the kingdom of God.
For behold, some are last who will be first, and some are first who will be last.”
In my humble opinion God’s love for us so as we may reach eternal life in heaven is to chastise us either in this life or in purgatory so we may have the opportunity of acheiving eternal life with Him.Some may learn and be chastised in this life and others may have to wait until in purgatory.
This is only my personal belief and not official church doctrine.I just used verses to show you my views.
What are your thoughts Anne? God bless
A
AnneTeresa
Guest
I don’t follow how you make the jump from these verses to Purgatory. Where are seeing that connection? I thought they referred to our current life on earth.
T
tbcrawford
Guest
Hi Anne I am no expert just a regular catholic gal! We know from our catholic knowledge that for us to have the opportunity to live in eternal life we must be as perfect to God as possible.
When you sin - you sin against both God and your fellow man.
God, through a priest and the sacrament of reconciliation, will forgive you for your sins - this eliminates “eternal” punishment (hell).
But you still need to repair the damage you have done here on earth - this is known as “temporal” punishment. That is what penance is all about.
But the repayment doesn’t always have to be while you are alive - it may happen after you have died - that is the concept of Purgatory.
The Bible shows in its description of Heaven as a place inhabited by the “souls of the just men made perfect” (Heb 11:23).
What happens if we die before we are “perfected” or “completed”? Do we go to Hell? Can we still be saved? Here again, the Catholic teaching is the only one that makes sense. If we die before achieving perfection, there is a place to undergo perfection.Purgatory.
” Our Lord commands us in Matthew 12:36 to be perfect: “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in Heaven is perfect.” Not only did our Lord command perfection, He also stated, through His Apostle, that it would certainly happen: “Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ” (Philippians 1:6).
How does this relate to Purgatory? Purgatory is a state of suffering, then the doctrine of Purgatory is consistent with the Biblical doctrine that suffering is necessary for salvation, which we are made fit for Heaven.
This is done by working for restitution and the restoration of justice on earth, and by continuing that work in purgatory if there are still scars of our sin upon our souls.
Thats the connection I am trying to explain I made! Purification Of The Soul Here Or Hereafter
I don’t know if I have helped you or not Anne,I am just giving you my opinion have I managed to explain it any better? In any case God bless you
R
roseo64
Guest
i think of the our father–
thy kingdom come
thy will be done
on earth as it is in heaven…
thy kingdom come
thy will be done
on earth as it is in heaven…
R
roseo64
Guest
unfortunately, i can’t remember if it was st. theresa of avilla or st. theresa of the little flower.
one of them was crossing a stream on a mule with some other nuns and somehow st. theresa fell off and into the stream. she said something to Christ, like how come you have done this to me, what have i done to displease you. she then, heard a voice saying–
“I treat all my friends this way”, and st. theresa replied,“no wonder you don’t have many friends.”
God and saints do have humorous interchanges!!
i do think this is also an example of how discipline, obediance in particular is important.
God does try us in our sincerity in obediance and love for Him and others and we know not when or how>
one of them was crossing a stream on a mule with some other nuns and somehow st. theresa fell off and into the stream. she said something to Christ, like how come you have done this to me, what have i done to displease you. she then, heard a voice saying–
“I treat all my friends this way”, and st. theresa replied,“no wonder you don’t have many friends.”
God and saints do have humorous interchanges!!
i do think this is also an example of how discipline, obediance in particular is important.
God does try us in our sincerity in obediance and love for Him and others and we know not when or how>
- Status