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ATeutonicKnight
Guest
I’m debating two Protestants that want a verse stating that not all sins are equal. The one about the unforgivable sin of sinning against the Holy Spirit does not work.
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Oregooner
Guest
How about 1 John 5:16-17? It states explicitly that all wrongdoing is sin, but not all sin is deadly (what we call “mortal sins”). It also tells us we can’t just pray about deadly sins, implying that something else needs to be done, i.e., confession.
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Gorgias
Guest
It’s a stretch, but…
in Jesus’ time, those who were thought possessed by demons were thought to have committed some sin, such that this befell them (or that their parents committed some sin). In Mt 17:21, Jesus mentions that some demons can be exorcised only by prayer and fasting; in other words, some demons are worse than others. This seems to imply that the sins that caused the possession are on a scale, too – some worse than others.
It’s not explicitly stated as such, but isn’t too unreasonable a leap of logic…
Also, we see throughout the Bible (especially in the OT, in the Mosaic law) that different sins have different effects and different punishments. If all sins were equal, then it would be unjust that one sin causes blindness while another causes demon possession; or God’s law would be unjust if one sin’s punishment were the cutting off of a hand while another’s was capital punishment. Since God is just, it follows that the effects and punishments for sin vary in the proportion that the gravity of the sins vary.
in Jesus’ time, those who were thought possessed by demons were thought to have committed some sin, such that this befell them (or that their parents committed some sin). In Mt 17:21, Jesus mentions that some demons can be exorcised only by prayer and fasting; in other words, some demons are worse than others. This seems to imply that the sins that caused the possession are on a scale, too – some worse than others.
It’s not explicitly stated as such, but isn’t too unreasonable a leap of logic…
Also, we see throughout the Bible (especially in the OT, in the Mosaic law) that different sins have different effects and different punishments. If all sins were equal, then it would be unjust that one sin causes blindness while another causes demon possession; or God’s law would be unjust if one sin’s punishment were the cutting off of a hand while another’s was capital punishment. Since God is just, it follows that the effects and punishments for sin vary in the proportion that the gravity of the sins vary.
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fermat
Guest
[bibledrb]1 John 5:16-17[/bibledrb]
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The_Scott
Guest
How about Mark 3:28-30?
“Amen, I say to you, all sins and all blasphemies that people utter will be forgiven them. But whoever blasphemes against the holy Spirit will never have forgiveness, but is guilty of an everlasting sin.”
Obviously, if one is forgivable and the other is not, then there’s different levels or categories of sin.
Good luck! Please tell us what happens next!
“Amen, I say to you, all sins and all blasphemies that people utter will be forgiven them. But whoever blasphemes against the holy Spirit will never have forgiveness, but is guilty of an everlasting sin.”
Obviously, if one is forgivable and the other is not, then there’s different levels or categories of sin.
Good luck! Please tell us what happens next!
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Gorgias
Guest
:doh2:
LOL… but seriously – why does this one “not work” for the purposes of your discussion? Just curious…
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The_Scott
Guest
…OH!
That’s what I get.
Five Hail Mary’s for being lazy and not reading the entire sentence, Scott.
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ATeutonicKnight
Guest
His theory is that this isn’t a sin, it’s a blaspheme. Denying Jesus is a blaspheme against the Holy Spirit.
But, I found the verse I needed. If you guys have more that would be great.
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Gorgias
Guest
OK. But… erm… blasphemy isn’t a sin?
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ATeutonicKnight
Guest
No. Because if it doesn’t directly say sin, then it’s not one.OK. But… erm… blasphemy isn’t a sin?
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bmullins
Guest
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Jim_Dandy
Guest
John 19:11 RSV - “You would have no power over me unless it had been given you from above; therefore he who delivered me to you has the greater sin.” Jesus himself tells us there are degrees of sin.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 RSV - “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts, nor theives, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.” St. Paul specifies a number of sins that are deadly – i.e., that cut us off from the life of God. If all sins were considered equal in the eyes of God, then for Paul to do so would have been meaningless as well as misleading.
1 Corinthians 6:9-11 RSV - “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor sexual perverts, nor theives, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.” St. Paul specifies a number of sins that are deadly – i.e., that cut us off from the life of God. If all sins were considered equal in the eyes of God, then for Paul to do so would have been meaningless as well as misleading.
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WesleyF
Guest
“You would have no power over me unless it had been given you from above; therefore he who delivered me to you has the greater sin.” (John 19:11)
"Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.“You have heard that it was said to the men of old,
Here we see Jesus making a distinction between grave matter and not so grave matter. So the one who disobeys the least of the commandments, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but the point is he shall still be in the kingdom of heaven!! However, those who commit grave offenses, such as calling one’s brother a “fool” shall not be in the kingdom of heaven but they shall be liable to the hell of fire.
"Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.“You have heard that it was said to the men of old,
You shall not kill; and whoever kills shall be liable to judgment.' But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says, You fool!’ shall be liable to the** hell of fire**.” (Matthew 5:19-22)\Here we see Jesus making a distinction between grave matter and not so grave matter. So the one who disobeys the least of the commandments, will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but the point is he shall still be in the kingdom of heaven!! However, those who commit grave offenses, such as calling one’s brother a “fool” shall not be in the kingdom of heaven but they shall be liable to the hell of fire.
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ATeutonicKnight
Guest
I actually found this verse before, and I thought it would be perfect, so I used it, and guess what? He gave me a ridiculous argument on why this didn’t prove my point. It’s like talking to a wall, really. He’s one of those guys that believes Jesus hates Religion, and that he abolished it.
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WesleyF
Guest
Typical response!! You might want to see something similar that recently happened with me, here.
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