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ATeutonicKnight
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I’m arguing with a Protestant on this, but the problem is, I’m no good at quoting scripture, and therefore I couldn’t give any exact quotes. Any help?
Verses To Refute The "Call No Man Father" Misinterpretation
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Thankfulness
Guest
You can quote a Protestant source, shown below, and then ask if he/she calls their father ‘my father’ or Dad
’Abba’ is clearly cognate with the Hebrew word ’ab (pronounced ’ahv), “Father.” More specifically, it would be cognate to the Hebrew word with the definite article, ha’ab (“the Father”), because the ending -a’ on the Aramaic makes it a determined or definite noun. Hence, the translation could be “the Father” or “my Father” of just “Father.”
christianleadershipcenter.org/otws12.htm
Why does “Dad” also mean father?
franciscan-sfo.org/FP/abba.html
New Testament . an Aramaic word for father, used by Jesus and Paul to address God in a relation of personal intimacy.
Origin:
< Aramaic abbā father
dictionary.reference.com/browse/abba
’Abba’ is clearly cognate with the Hebrew word ’ab (pronounced ’ahv), “Father.” More specifically, it would be cognate to the Hebrew word with the definite article, ha’ab (“the Father”), because the ending -a’ on the Aramaic makes it a determined or definite noun. Hence, the translation could be “the Father” or “my Father” of just “Father.”
christianleadershipcenter.org/otws12.htm
Why does “Dad” also mean father?
franciscan-sfo.org/FP/abba.html
New Testament . an Aramaic word for father, used by Jesus and Paul to address God in a relation of personal intimacy.
Origin:
< Aramaic abbā father
dictionary.reference.com/browse/abba
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bmullins
Guest
Gen. 45:8
Job 29:16
Is. 22:20–21
2 Kgs. 2:12
2 Kgs. 6:21
Acts 7:2
Romans 9:10
Then compare Matt. 23:8–10 with Matthew 28:19–20 (Christ says call on man teacher, then appoints teachers. Clearly indicating that he didn’t mean it literally.) Also 1 Tim. 2:7, 2 Tim. 1:11, 1 Cor. 12:28, and Eph. 4:11
1 Cor. 4:14–15, Gal. 4:19, 2 Cor. 12:14
1 John 2:1, 3 John 4, 1 John 2:13–14
As one would see clearly from all of those verses, the Apostles definitely considered themselves spiritual fathers and the people they were guiding their children. This is exactly what a Parish Priest is. A father guiding his spiritual children. Completely biblical.
Job 29:16
Is. 22:20–21
2 Kgs. 2:12
2 Kgs. 6:21
Acts 7:2
Romans 9:10
Then compare Matt. 23:8–10 with Matthew 28:19–20 (Christ says call on man teacher, then appoints teachers. Clearly indicating that he didn’t mean it literally.) Also 1 Tim. 2:7, 2 Tim. 1:11, 1 Cor. 12:28, and Eph. 4:11
1 Cor. 4:14–15, Gal. 4:19, 2 Cor. 12:14
1 John 2:1, 3 John 4, 1 John 2:13–14
As one would see clearly from all of those verses, the Apostles definitely considered themselves spiritual fathers and the people they were guiding their children. This is exactly what a Parish Priest is. A father guiding his spiritual children. Completely biblical.
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asia53
Guest
1 Cor 4:15 “I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel”
Acts 7:2 (St Stephen calls Jewish leaders “fathers”)
Acts 22:1 (St Paul calls Jews in Jerusalem “fathers”)
Rom 4:16 “Abraham… is the father of all of us”
1 Thess 2:11 “treated each…of you as a father treats his children”
1 Tim 1:2 “Timothy, my true child in faith”
Phlm 10 “Onesimus, whose father I have become in my imprisonment”
Heb 12:9 “we have had our earthly fathers to discipline us”
1 John 2:13 “I am writing to you, fathers”
Please don’t think, I’m an exceptional Biblical scholar. I bought 2 pamphlets at a one-day Bible class, The Bible Thumper Volume 1 and 2, published by Ascension Press. It’s been a remarkable resource. If you need more quotes, please let me know, there are more listed.
Acts 7:2 (St Stephen calls Jewish leaders “fathers”)
Acts 22:1 (St Paul calls Jews in Jerusalem “fathers”)
Rom 4:16 “Abraham… is the father of all of us”
1 Thess 2:11 “treated each…of you as a father treats his children”
1 Tim 1:2 “Timothy, my true child in faith”
Phlm 10 “Onesimus, whose father I have become in my imprisonment”
Heb 12:9 “we have had our earthly fathers to discipline us”
1 John 2:13 “I am writing to you, fathers”
Please don’t think, I’m an exceptional Biblical scholar. I bought 2 pamphlets at a one-day Bible class, The Bible Thumper Volume 1 and 2, published by Ascension Press. It’s been a remarkable resource. If you need more quotes, please let me know, there are more listed.
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EricFilmer
Guest
Just to add to what has already been stated in this thread…
When Jesus taught the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31), he used the term “Father Abraham.” As a matter-of-fact, Abraham is referred to as “father” three times in that parable.
When Jesus taught the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31), he used the term “Father Abraham.” As a matter-of-fact, Abraham is referred to as “father” three times in that parable.
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EricFilmer
Guest
As a side note, when this argument comes up, I have always noticed a large degree of hypocrisy concerning those who use it. To understand why, consider the full gospel passage in question:
But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brethren.
And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.
Neither be called masters, for you have one master, the Christ. (Matthew 23:8-10, RSV)
“Rabbi”, as you probably know, is simply the Hebrew word for “teacher” (and we see both words in the RSV’s translation of verse 8). So Jesus says we are to call no one “teacher” or “father”, and we are not to call ourselves “master.” Catholics, of course, interpret this teaching as a hyperbole and not to be taken literally, but many Protestants see this as a literal instruction and criticize Catholics for calling priests, “father.”
The hypocrisy I mentioned stems from the fact that I have never heard these same people objecting to calling people “teachers”, and I have never heard them objecting to calling graduate level education as a “master’s degree”. Therefore, in criticizing the Catholic usage of the term “father” but having no issue with their own usage of the terms “teacher” and “master”, they display an anti-Catholic bias. They likewise show such a bias if they have no problem with people referring to a male parent as “father”. If they want to interpret Matthew 23:8-10 literally then they should go all the way.
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pablope
Guest
Also, give this passage from Mark to your protestant friend…
Mark 11:9-10
And they that went before, and they that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna; Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord: Blessed be the kingdom of our father David, that cometh in the name of the Lord: Hosanna in the highest.
Then ask him this question…why is Jesus not stopping or condemning those Jews who are shouting and calling David…as father David…and certainly Jesus can hear them?
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WesleyF
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ATeutonicKnight
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Thank you all for the amazing answers! If I need more help I’ll let you know.
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Christina_G
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Ok, I’ve seen all of these answers before, but never have heard WHAT the Scripture IS meaning by this. So, if Jesus is using hyperbole, then what DOES He mean by this?
I’ve wondered this a lot. Especially, since one popular song in children’s classes is “Father Abraham”.
I’ve wondered this a lot. Especially, since one popular song in children’s classes is “Father Abraham”.
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Michael19682
Guest
We are taught to discern the “Lord” in all things. Who, therefore, can tell me who I am truly adressing in my heart when I say “Father”. If I am speaking to God but have nowhere else to look but at the person whom I was taught to call father, is it my fault if that person thinks he is my father and answers me so in such a belief? The real issue for me is if these people who contradict simple, respectful custom, acknowedge at all that God the Father may speak at all through the mouth of a man - and they claim to know scripture so well. Perhaps you might first attempt to teach them the names and relationship among the persons of the Trinity as our found in our Creeds.
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Fr_of_Jazz
Guest
I put a “fact sheet” of sorts together on this bogus objection . . . or rather insult to the intelligence.
The text in question is Matt 23:9. It reads, “Call no one on earth your father (patera umon); you have one Father in heaven.” This is construed to mean Jesus, in this passage, prohibits priests from being addressed as “Father.” Is this valid?
Three biblical arguments suggest otherwise.
First, the preceeding passage used the title “Rabbi” in the absolute: “do not be called ‘Rabbi.’”
This passage, however, says call no one your (umon) father. It does not say: “call no one on earth ‘father.’” Jesus is using hyperbole to stress the uniqueness, sovereignty, and commonality of our heavenly Father with reference to earthly fatherhood.
Second, the above comports with other instances of hyperbole (exaggeration) in Christ’s teaching which are not followed literally even by those who want to follow the text in question literally.
Jn 6:27 – “Do not work for food that perishes but for the food that endures for eternal life.” No one says this text means we should not work for a living.
Mt 18:8-9 // Mk 9:43-48 – No one holds one should literally cut off ones hand if it is a cause of sin, etc.
Mt 23:8,10 – within the passage in question we read: “Avoid being called kathegetes teacher/leader/guide/master.” Are these titles rejected just like “your father”? NO!
Third, there are numerous instances in the New Testament where people on earth are called “father” using the same Greek word pater. St. Paul, a religious leader, is included. Below is a list.
Lk 15:12, 20, 22, 29 – In narrating the parable of the prodigal son, Jesus himself uses the word “father” four times when referring to the prodigal son’s . . uh . . dad.
Acts 7:2 – “. . . our father Abraham . . .”
Rom 4:12, 16, 17, 18 – for a total of five times Abraham is referred to as our “father” in faith
*1 Cor 4:15 – St. Paul describes himself as the Corinthian’s father in Christ Jesus
1 Cor 4:17 – St. Paul calls Timothy his “son.”
*1 Thess 2:11 – St. Paul says he treats the Thessalonians as a father treats his children
See also Gal 4:19.
Philemon 10 – In his imprisonment, St. Paul is the [spiritual] father of Onesimus.
Heb 7:9-10 – Levi’s “father” Abraham
Heb 12:7, 9 – fathers discipline their sons
James 2:21 – “. . . Abraham our father . . .”
*1 John 2:13-14 – John writes to “fathers” and calls his readers “children”
1 Tim 1:2, 18 – to Timothy, my true child in faith [which means Paul sees himself as a Father]
2 Tim 1:2; 2:1; Titus 1:4 – my true child (in faith) [which means Paul sees himself as a Father]
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pollycarp
Guest
No scripture quote, but ask them what they called that man married to their mother.
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David
Guest
Hello Christina, I was taught that Jesus is teaching that God is the source of knowledge and fatherhood.Ok, I’ve seen all of these answers before, but never have heard WHAT the Scripture IS meaning by this. So, if Jesus is using hyperbole, then what DOES He mean by this?
I’ve wondered this a lot. Especially, since one popular song in children’s classes is “Father Abraham”.
hope that helps.
Peace
David
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pablope
Guest
Click on the link in post 7…here is an excerpt…Ok, I’ve seen all of these answers before, but never have heard WHAT the Scripture IS meaning by this. So, if Jesus is using hyperbole, then what DOES He mean by this?
I’ve wondered this a lot. Especially, since one popular song in children’s classes is “Father Abraham”.
OK, so what’s He saying here? What’s His point? He is admonishing those who would raise themselves up as “holier than thou,” are spiritually prideful, and boasters. He is saying that we are not to put any man, including ourselves, including the Pope, above God, simple as that. He is not saying that we are not to literally ever call a man father or rabbi or teacher or master; to believe otherwise is to call Him a liar because He Himself calls people father, in both the physical and spiritual sense (in that same chapter, even, in Mark 7, Mark 10, Mark 13, Luke 6, etc.) and doesn’t admonish those who refer to “our father David” as they greet Him during His triumphant entry into Jerusalem. The four evangelists speak the same way, Christ’s Mother speaks the same way, as does Paul who refers numerous times to our “father Abraham.”
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Craig_Holler
Guest
Respectfully.
We are talking here about a command about Holy living. I am not under any misconception about the Holy Scripture and of course it implies that we should only refer to our Living God, Jesus Christ as our Father Spiritually. "Thou shalt have NO other Gods…I get this fully…!!!
However, how do the Catholic Church leaders get away with calling the “pope”
Holy Father…???
Is. 6: 1-3…1 Sam. 2: 2…Who is Holy???
Who is Righteous…??? Romans 3: 10
Who is without Sin…?? 1st John 1: 7-9…and by the way who can forgive our sins…??
Help us ALL to be like Jesus…Phil. 2: 1-11 suffering, humble…
My hope and prayer for the Catholic Church is that the leadership will strive to understand the humility of Christ and apply it to their teachings…Walk in Love Eph. 5:2
Romans…12: 1-2
Strive to be like HIM…Gal. 2:20 and Phil. 1:21
Help us to remember that there is One Lord, one Faith and one Baptism.
Humbly submitted,
Pastor Craig Holler
We are talking here about a command about Holy living. I am not under any misconception about the Holy Scripture and of course it implies that we should only refer to our Living God, Jesus Christ as our Father Spiritually. "Thou shalt have NO other Gods…I get this fully…!!!
However, how do the Catholic Church leaders get away with calling the “pope”
Holy Father…???
Is. 6: 1-3…1 Sam. 2: 2…Who is Holy???
Who is Righteous…??? Romans 3: 10
Who is without Sin…?? 1st John 1: 7-9…and by the way who can forgive our sins…??
Help us ALL to be like Jesus…Phil. 2: 1-11 suffering, humble…
My hope and prayer for the Catholic Church is that the leadership will strive to understand the humility of Christ and apply it to their teachings…Walk in Love Eph. 5:2
Romans…12: 1-2
Strive to be like HIM…Gal. 2:20 and Phil. 1:21
Help us to remember that there is One Lord, one Faith and one Baptism.
Humbly submitted,
Pastor Craig Holler
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Craig_Holler
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Wampa
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Catholic Answers also has a nice article covering it: catholic.com/tracts/call-no-man-father
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FCEGM
Guest
Welcome to the Forum
Many times in the Gospels Jesus refers to our earthly fathers as well as our Heavenly Father; if the command to call no one on earth father were in the strict literal sense, He would not have done so. Similarly, we would not be commanded to “Honor your father and mother,” (Exodus 20:12).
Father Mitch Pacwa points out that “There are 144 occasions in the New Testament when the title of father is used for someone other than God. It is applied to the patriarchs of Israel, the fathers of families, to Jewish leaders and to Christian leaders” (“Call No Man Father?”, THIS ROCK, January 1991).
Many Christians call their ministers “Pastor” - as you refer to yourself. Pastor means shepherd. In John 10:14-16 Jesus says, “I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, as the Father me and I know the Father, and I lay down my life for the sheep. And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd.” If we reason that we cannot call anyone Father who is in heaven, then can we not also reason that we cannot call a minister Pastor because there is only “one Shepherd?”
God is Father and Jesus is Shepherd in the ultimate sense. Church leaders are shepherds and fathers in a lesser sense. Why else would Peter say in 1 Peter 5:2-4, “Tend the flock of God that is your charge, not by constraint but willingly, not for shameful gain but eagerly, not as domineering over those in your charge but being examples to the flock. And when the chief Shepherd is manifested you will obtain the unfading crown of glory.” The term “Chief Shepherd” indicates that there are subordinate shepherds. One scripture verse clarifies another, and so it is with the different verses pertaining to the title offather.
Here are a few more scriptural examples which support the usage:
Acts 7:1 - Here Stephen addresses the Sanhedrin as “my brothers” and “my fathers”. If the Lord’s words are to be taken as literally as some would take them, would not Stephen now be sinning in the very act of defending the faith? - a faith for which he was about to be martyred?
In Acts 22:1 we see St. Paul addressing the crowd in Jerusalem with the same words as St. Stephen, “My brothers, my FATHERS.” Is St. Paul committing the same “sin” as St. Stephen?
In 1 Thess. 2, is not St. Paul refering to himself as a spiritual father? And in 1 Corinthians 4 does he not say, “You have in Christ ten thousands teachers, but not many fathers, because in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through announcing the gospel. Therefore I exhort you to become imitators of me.”
St. Paul further writes: “I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the Gospel” (1 Corinthians 4:14-15).
St. Paul refers to Timothy as “my son” and Titus as “true child of mine.” Is he not then arrogating to himself the position that only God the Father should have in their lives according to the way some read the Lord’s words?
Look into 1 John 2 where the beloved disciple calls the Christian men “Fathers.” Was he sinning in doing so? The cumulative effect of these verses certainly casts doubt on a literalistic reading of Matt 23.
In the NT, besides the passages already cited, we have both James and Paul speaking of “our father Abraham”. If one were to apply the Lord’s words in Matthew 23 as stringently as some question suggest, would they not be sinning - or at least in error - by referring to Abraham as “father”?
Looking at the manner in which Our Lord is speaking, we have to remember, too, that the limited vocabularly of Hebrew and Aramaic necessitated the use of hyperbole to get points across. We see this, e.g, in His words about “if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off - if your eye, pluck it out, . . . [etc]”.
The Catholic priest is a spiritual father* those who have been placed in his charge. He acts as Christ’s instrument by bringing new members into His Body through Baptism, proclaims the Gospel, reconciles us to God through the Sacrament of Penance, and feeds us with the Body and Blood of our great High Priest. That some have not lived up to these awesome responsibilities no more calls into doubt the applicability of the word “father” for them then does the sinning of those men who contributed to our conception and nurtured and taught us in our natural lives.
Regarding calling the Pope “Holy” Father it is a reference to his position as the one having received the keys of the kingdom through his apostolic succession from St. Peter to guide the Church on earth to holiness; it doesn’t refer to his personal state of holiness, though very holy he may be.
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Randy_Carson
Guest
Holy Father – is he holy?
By Steve Ray, Former Baptist
The young man stood up at my conference and parroted the Fundamentalist mantra: “The Pope is a sinner like everyone else; why do you call him ‘HOLY Father’?”
I leaned into the microphone and said to the young man, “You should really read your Bible more carefully and do your homework before you stand up and embarrass yourself in front of 2,000 people.” I then explained why we call the Pope our Holy Father.
There are several meanings for the word “holy” and that is what the young man did not understand. If holy simply means without sin, it is hard to see why “things” are called holy. For example, the HOLY OF HOLIES is a place. Is it called holy because it has not sinned?
And what about HOLY GROUND? God told Moses to remove his sandals — he was standing on HOLY GROUND. I guess that means that this dirt had not sinned but the dirt in the next gully had sinnned. HUH?
The word HOLY in Hebrew is *kodesh *and means apartness, holiness, sacredness, consecration, separateness. Holiness can mean without sin. It can also means dedicated or set apart for God.
So, is the Pope holy in the sense of being completely sinless? Of course not. But the Pope is set apart for God in a special way as the HOLY Father, the Vicar of Christ, the Bishop of Rome and the Successor of Peter.
Bottom line, he is the HOLY FATHER and this fits perfectly with the Bible.
So much for a dumb challenge at a conference.
PS Remember that even WE are called holy. Paul considered all of us saints (literally “holy ones” with a small “s”). He writes, “Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother. To the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints who are in the whole of Achaia: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ” (2 Corinthians 1:1-2).
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