Versus Populum in Eastern Iconography

[Spyridon]

I don’t think I’ve “won,”

I perceive that there is a language and cultural barrier between us, and we are essentially expressing the same substantial reality but from different perspectives and in different language.

Such ethnolinguistic differences were a major reason for the dreadful schism of 1054 and to this day remain a hurdle which must be overcome between the Orient and the Occident.

 

[Kmon23]

Generally, the theology of “persona Christi” is much larger in the West than in the East. For example, the words of absolution during confession in the East don’t stress much of the priest being in the Person of Christ (vs. the Western words of absolution).

Likewise, although the Priest represents Christ (my body and blood, during the anaphora), theologically we don’t equate the priest and Christ as strongly generally.

 

[dochawk]

I’d be surprised to not wee it.

We face east as that is where Christ is to return from.

But if He is standing there, it would be odd, for the same reason, not to turn to face him . . .

In the RC churches in Rome itself where the liturgy has always been versus popular, due to the altar having been forced to the west end of the church, there are three, iirc, points of the Mass where the congregation turns and faces east, as there priest does the entire liturgy.

 

[HeDa]

I have a question regarding traditional Eastern icons. The only once I have seen have people facing or having their side to the one looking at the icon. Their faces would be facing Christ or facing the one looking at the icon. Never having a person stand with their back turned to the one looking at the icon unless he/she is looking to the side (towards Christ) so their face is seen. The only person who is turning his back to Christ is Judas. Is this the traditional way of writing icons?

 

[Mary888]

Actually in EO the priest faces the altar when invoking God and faces the people during other parts of the liturgy. For example when the reading of the Gospel is done the priest faces the people.
But if the church could not be built with the altar facing East then what makes sense the priest would do? Is Ad Orientem referring to the geographical East or the spiritual East (where the Sun is a metaphor for God’s light)? How physically linked should the Christian rites be regarding geographical symbols?
Imho which is extremely uneducated in liturgy or theology, I would always support the idea that the altar is the east because this is where the Holy Mystery of Christ being slayed for the Eucharist takes place. What other physical light can be greater than the Lamb of God’s sacrifice?
But when addressing or reading to the people without a doubt it makes sense the priest faces people.

 

[dochawk]

How physically linked should the Christian rites be regarding geographical symbols?

Historically, churches (Eastern and Western) were deliberately built that way–the altar in the East. In the case where it wasn’t physically possible to do so, the liturgy was altered so that the priest would still face East.

I think it’s only the last century or so that the notion that “liturgical East” didn’t need to be, well, East has come into acceptance–and it’s already going back out.

If you look at an older parish in California, where the older church has now become the hall and a newer church has now been built, the older one tends to be east-facing, and the newer one wherever it could fit on the lot.

(although the parish I grew up in was on a huge lot, and they built the school first, using a double room for services [which were initially in the barn, which I think has finally come down]). But the school was built on the east of that huge lot, so the altar is actually in the west end of the church. But that was the 60s, so . . . )

But when addressing or reading to the people without a doubt it makes sense the priest faces people.

I believe the priest has always done so, both East and West.

And over the years, I’ve notice that the old, raised preaching pulpits are typically about a third of the way into the congregation–reflecting the reduced voice behind the priest, and carrying his voice through the church the best that could be done without microphones.

hawk

 

[twf]

At our cathedral, Mass is said versus populum but according to the so called “Benedictine arrangement” (6 large candles on the altar, crucifix in the centre of the altar). During the Christmas season, they brought out such massive grand candles, that I almost felt like they became a mini-rood screen .

 

[Spyridon]

At our cathedral, Mass is said versus populum but according to the so called “Benedictine arrangement” (6 large candles on the altar, crucifix in the centre of the altar). During the Christmas season, they brought out such massive grand candles, that I almost felt like they became a mini-rood screen .

Same here.

I feel the Benedictine arrangement is by far the superior set up for Versus Populum celebration.

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