Very bad experience in Church

[DeniseNY]

I assume that because of where you live, there isn’t another nearby Church? If that’s the case, please speak with the priest. I’m so sorry that you were treated like this. Perservere and continue on your journey!

 

[lerapt78]

Are cultural differences causing difficulties? Just a thought. I wouldn’t give up, because from the outside, it looks to me as if God has something special in mind for you. It’s possible “someone else” other than God is throwing these challenges in your path, which must mean the enemy doesn’t want you to complete your journey. That would be encouragement enough for me.

I was wondering the same thing. Even though English is an official language, do you find that most parishioners speak Cantonese? And if so, do you speak it? You mentioned that the church is in a small villiage - it can be difficult anywhere to fit in a small community, but don’t let that stop you! Keep trying, and especially focus on befriending a *small *circle of acquaintances first (like the man that you said had been friendly to you). Hopefully, you can widen your group of friends through him.

I can sympathize with you to a certain extent. Although I haven’t experienced feeling alientated culturally, I’ve found that it’s difficult to make friends who are practicing Catholics because our Masses are geared toward the Liturgy, with little emphasis on community/socialization. But, maybe you could change that! Have you thought about collaborating with one or two people to organize an after-Mass luncheon?

Catholics are not perfect and we can be rude and uncharitable and many other things to boot. If you are looking for a perfect Church, the Catholic Church is it. But if you are looking for perfect Christians, you’ll never find a church, Catholic or otherwise. Perfect Christians are only found in heaven.

Very honest, and well said!

 

[pristine2]

All of you are very kind, and I appreciate the suggestions.

Of course I understand that no one at the church really meant us harm. Most people we have met there are warm and kind. And it is a cultural mix. Most people attending English service are from the Philippines, with the remainder split about equally between Westerners (esp. British and Irish) and foreign-born Chinese. There were more Westerners at the Saturday mass than we’d seen on Sundays. The priest is Italian, I think.

Our village is very small, but the church is the largest in Hong Kong’s rural New Territories. There are other Catholic churches in Hong Kong of course, but our mobility is limited. There really isn’t another practical option. We’ve been here for nearly 20 years.

I am still trying to digest the experience. I had grown increasingly comfortable with the idea of being Catholic. But the most important factor of all was providing for my children the extended love, security and sense of belonging only a religious community can provide. Maybe this was my mistake.

I know I should choose to look at this as just another challenge to overcome. God knows my family has had many. But rationally, it really seems like an unmistakeable sign to stop approaching the Catholic Church.

Before, I actually appreciated the fact that the church did not actively seek to convert us, like many of the local protestant denominations do. It made sense that the initiative to join should come from us. But after this experience, I can’t ignore the fact that no one has reached out to us at all. It really seems we don’t belong. We weren’t born Catholic, after all, and maybe our presence in the church, at some basic & unspoken level, simply isn’t welcome.

With a severely handicapped child living in a foreign country, we are already intimately familiar with ostracism and humiliation. After our child was born, our friends dropped off one by one. They weren’t mean about it or anything. On the Internet, we’ve discovered that many or most parents of disabled children experience the same thing. And you can imagine what my child experiences at school.

But this is the first time ever my children and I have been hissed at. It really hurt. I didn’t expect anything like this in church, where I’ve come to enjoy a sense of security and serenity. Even the memory of it makes me cringe. I can live with it, but this is not what I want for my children, and I don’t think I can look at the Catholic Church in the same way again.

 

[martininthefiel]

“Alpha” is a program often associated with the Charismatic Movement. If my memory serves me correctly, its origins are in the Evangelical wing of the Church of England, and its use in the Catholic Church has been widely questioned.

I took “Alpha” in an Episcopal Church in the states, and found it wanting–even subversive–in that it teaches things that are more appropriate in a Protestant context. I think it often focuses on the psychological at the expense of the spiritual, and undermines the authority of the episcopate by stressing “a priesthood of all believers”

 

[lerapt78]

“Alpha” is a program often associated with the Charismatic Movement. If my memory serves me correctly, its origins are in the Evangelical wing of the Church of England, and its use in the Catholic Church has been widely questioned.

I took “Alpha” in an Episcopal Church in the states, and found it wanting–even subversive–in that it teaches things that are more appropriate in a Protestant context. I think it often focuses on the psychological at the expense of the spiritual, and undermines the authority of the episcopate by stressing “a priesthood of all believers”

Interesting. So it stresses a feeling of social community rather than a focus on the Mass?

 

[InspiritCarol]

As to socializing… when I lived in town with my children, it was very difficult to socialize. My children were homeschooled, and it seemed like other parents thought their children had so many activities set up for their children that they didn’t have time–it was strange, but I heard from many others that they had the same problem (unfortunately, they were in other places!)

Then when we moved to a very small town in a rural area, everyone was so accustomed to just being friends with people they’d grown up with or were related to that again, not a lot of socializing.

I hope this all works out for you and your family.

Oh my goodness. This is my experience too!
It’s horrible.

The only thing that helps me is that I am in front of these people every Sunday singing.

Is there any chance, Pristine, that you can join a choir or committee?
You can do this w/o being Catholic. In fact, that’s how my husband became Catholic: he interacted with some good men in the choir who convinced him to start RCIA.

I DO have some insight into the hissing.
-The person told you that the Saturday Mass was small, remember?
-But this time it was packed.

• It was packed for the confirmation/baptisms with family members that don’t attend church normally.
• This is common - and the ones who are dragged out from their rocks only for these events deeply resent being there and jump at the oppertunity to make others feel as miserable as they do.
  SO - you should assume that the hissing came from nasty old chinese ladies (that like to do this sort of thing at the drop of a hat - I knew many in San Francisco like that) and was taken up and amplified, not by the faithful, but by the disaffected.

In ANY case, your “mistake” was understandable, but I have to wonder if it was God calling you to be there; you certainly deserved it more than the ones who were there.

**This church **and all the ones that behave this way should be ashamed of itself.

My family subsists in similar circumstances.
Just remember that you are the faithful God is calling.

Be strong.

I had similar happen to me in grade school. A person up on stage at a school assembly was talking to different kids in the audience and spoke briefly to me. He then made a hand jesture that looked like he was calling me forward. I was at the back of the auditorium and only realized my mistake when I got to the stage. I sat down quickly but only to a loud chorus of whispers and giggles.

The shame of it was indescribable.

Without a doubt, I can tell you that I am the only person on this planet that remembers that incident.

From a liturgical perspective, gaffs happen. Your misunderstanding, was a gaff. No big deal. A wise director once told me to expect two mistakes per Mass. We are flawed people living in a flawed world.

Since you have been unable to reach your priest, try going to your archdiocese.

Blessings and Prayers for you.

-Carol

 

[bonvivantHermit]

To some degree or another- this is how I have found parishes from Trad to Novus Ordo.
It’s a wonder the Church has any parishoners…hmmmm…wonder why?

The Holy Ghost! The Catholic Church “community” can be inhospitable, because She has the Truth. I am not claiming the lack of community, coldness is OK or desirable, but it seems to be common.

I have never found “community” and I suspect it is the Devil working hard to keep us from the Truth. Think about it, gigantic, thriving Protestant churches chock full of fun- why? Because they have to keep the parishoners some way.

If you come to Church looking for anything but the Truth, you will be disappointed. I am sorry you were treated so poorly, but that’s not what Church is about. Read the lives of the saints, find some way to join, you can get there by desire alone…

Once I gave up judging the Church by the people, I figured out why I was drawn in the first place.

PS
Not all Catholics are jerks, look at this forum, folks replied- many people do care.

 

[InspiritCarol]

I am still trying to digest the experience. I had grown increasingly comfortable with the idea of being Catholic. But the most important factor of all was providing for my children the extended love, security and sense of belonging only a religious community can provide. Maybe this was my mistake.

Not your mistake… theirs. You are absolutely right, but this community seems (like the one I’m in also) to be completely dysfunctional. God is calling you.

I know I should choose to look at this as just another challenge to overcome. God knows my family has had many. But rationally, it really seems like an unmistakable sign to stop approaching the Catholic Church.

Yes. I *KNOW *what you mean. I have said these very words myself. It’s a lie the devil wants you to believe. Persevere. Trust. Pray, pray, pray. I’d get attacked & pray more. Pray the rosary as a family and explore the mysteries together. We have hours of discussion around the rosary at times. Also the divine mercy chaplet has been invaluable for trust issues and anxiety.

Before, I actually appreciated the fact that the church did not actively seek to convert us, like many of the local protestant denominations do. It made sense that the initiative to join should come from us. But after this experience, I can’t ignore the fact that no one has reached out to us at all. It really seems we don’t belong.

Here you’re making the classic mistake: we aren’t there for the people, we are there for God. God IS calling you.

We weren’t born Catholic, after all, and maybe our presence in the church, at some basic & unspoken level, simply isn’t welcome.

This simply isn’t true.

With a severely handicapped child living in a foreign country, we are already intimately familiar with ostracism and humiliation. After our child was born, our friends dropped off one by one. They weren’t mean about it or anything. On the Internet, we’ve discovered that many or most parents of disabled children experience the same thing. And you can imagine what my child experiences at school.

Wow. Your testimony is amazing and so moving.

But this is the first time ever my children and I have been hissed at. It really hurt.

Really? We lived in San Francisco and walked a black lab around a lot. We were commonly hissed at by old ladies. We decided they didn’t like black dogs (since he was well behaved and we cleaned up after him). Who knows. The hissing meanies are one of the many reasons we fled that town, though.

I didn’t expect anything like this in church, where I’ve come to enjoy a sense of security and serenity. Even the memory of it makes me cringe. I can live with it, but this is not what I want for my children, and I don’t think I can look at the Catholic Church in the same way again.

Please don’t project this cultural nuance onto Catholicism in general.
For my family, trying to go to a Catholic Church in a small town has become the very definition of suffering.
God DOES see this and loves us all the more for this. Have you started to feel it yet? There are *very *special graces that go along with this special kind of martyrdom.
One is a peace and a sense of happiness that surpasses all understanding. Don’t look out at the storm around you but look toward God. He is there for you. God’s call doesn’t go away. You and your family are SO needed at that church. You have the strength to endure. Please pray more as a family. You wouldn’t believe the graces you can get.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

“Alpha” is a program often associated with the Charismatic Movement. If my memory serves me correctly, its origins are in the Evangelical wing of the Church of England, and its use in the Catholic Church has been widely questioned.

I took “Alpha” in an Episcopal Church in the states, and found it wanting–even subversive–in that it teaches things that are more appropriate in a Protestant context. I think it often focuses on the psychological at the expense of the spiritual, and undermines the authority of the episcopate by stressing “a priesthood of all believers”

That was my exact thought. Alpha is used by the Episcopalians so I wonder why a Catholic Church is using a C of E or Episcopalian program to teach RCIA? Any program connected with other churches should NOT be used by Catholics!

OP, maybe the Holy Spirit intervened, knowing that the teaching you might receive will do you more harm than good.

Look, I am not going to hedge around about this. If you believe that the Catholic Church offers the truth, as well as the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, then you will do anything in your power on earth to become a Catholic. You will persist, you will find a way. If you are looking for a social experience, a warm and fuzzy place to park your family, you will give up because you had an embarrassing experience that one time in church. Get over it. I almost walked in on the priest in confession one Saturday, and everyone around me saw my blunder. I opened the wrong door. Well, so what? Your villagers weren’t very nice, to hiss at you, but if it’s a cultural noise of disapproval, it probably wasn’t meant personally, just in their distress they made that noise.

If you say you’ve been there 20 years, I suppose there is no chance you will leave. So you are going to have to make it work somehow. If it were me, I would go to the diocese, wherever that is, and work from that level. They won’t turn down someone who really wants to convert.

 

[pristine2]

Look, I am not going to hedge around about this. If you believe that the Catholic Church offers the truth, as well as the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, then you will do anything in your power on earth to become a Catholic. You will persist, you will find a way.

Maybe you’re right. While I’ve read a great deal over the past year, my experience with Catholicism is still limited, and if you ask me if I know for sure that the church holds a monopoly on truth, my honest response would have to be: “I don’t know.” If this experience was some sort of crucible by which the depth of my faith is tested, there’s no doubt I’ve failed. I had a positive notion about the Catholic Church, that it somehow embodied and disciplined the essence of human spirituality, making Christianity a reality for those who joined it. I’d not really thought it through beyond that.

If you are looking for a social experience, a warm and fuzzy place to park your family, you will give up because you had an embarrassing experience that one time in church. Get over it.

It’s true that the happiness of my children is more important to me than anything. I don’t want to “park” them anywhere. I do want to find some place for them in the community with the love and acceptance they deserve. My love for my children is the principal reason I approached the church – but to be fair, it was the Priest himself who spoke frequently about how the presence of God is palpable first and foremost within Christians, and the Christian Community.

I don’t mean to criticise or condemn the people in the church. I know they did not mean to harm us, and it was we who interjected ourselves where we did not belong. Lesson learnt.

Any way, I appreciate your candour, and I see my mistake now.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Hey, my pastor says this all the time:

The Catholic Church is not a museum for saints, but a hospital for sinners!

What you might do, is read some more books on the faith, providing you have a way to obtain them. Catholicism for Dummies is a very good primer. It pains me to recommend a “Dummies” book, but this one is supposedly quite good and I think it even carries the imprimateur of the Church.

The Catholic Church is the Church Jesus established on earth. Of that, there can be no doubt. There were no other churches until the Reformation. Jesus started something that continues all over the world until today. The Eucharist is His Body and Blood, present in our midst. The sacraments transmit God’s grace through the Holy Spirit.

If you are being called to the Church, you are. And the Holy Spirit will not allow you to stop without fulfilling His direction. So hang on, and see it through.

I went to a Catholic church in a small town where my stepmother lives. Very small congregation. No one talked to me. No one welcomed me. But it was the same Mass and the same Lord Jesus Christ in the Eucharist. The same peace and grace after communion. It’s not dependent upon anyone in the church. In fact, if I had to walk on broken glass to receive Christ, with people trying to stop me all along the way, I would fight my way through to receive. It doesn’t matter to me because that is GOD Himself waiting for ME.

Please don’t be discouraged. Just call or go visit the Diocese. Make an appointment with the Bishop and keep the appointment.

 

[Mintaka]

I don’t think God is testing you at all. I don’t even think the Devil is trying to keep you out of the Church!

I think it’s mostly Murphy of Murphy’s Law: “Whatever can go wrong, will go wrong.”

It sounds like a very disorganized parish, where people don’t know where their heads are. You will have to be organized for them.

(And if some people just can’t be bothered, bother the heck out of 'em until they see it’s less trouble to give you help than not. Please keep trying. Like Jesus said, you just have to keep knocking at the door, like the man waking up his friend to get bread or the widow seeking justice. Storm heaven with your prayers, and ask everybody at the parish at the same time.)

Send a letter or email to the parish office every week. Reference every previous time that you’ve written (by calendar date if you can), so they know how often you’ve tried to get in touch with them.

If you really can’t get a straight answer from the secretary, you could always send something to the priest that he has to sign for and send you a receipt back, like registered mail!

This is a matter of eternal salvation, both yours and theirs! Don’t give up. Eternal life is worth fighting for.

Mintaka

PS - A few years from now, when you’re in the Church and know all these folks, you will look back on all this trouble and smile.

 

[GraceDK]

**Mintaka: I don’t think God is testing you at all. I don’t even think the Devil is trying to keep you out of the Church! **

It seems he doesn’t need to. The Catholics do a fine job at it.

I think threads like this should be a warning to áll Catholics. I think in the States there are better Catholic fellowships in the Churches… however, what we hear all around from every convert here is that often they feel isolated and unwelcome in Catholic churches.
Lets face it. We cannot say we have the fullness of truth if we lack something as basic as brotherly love and fellowship. And no, I dont think the early church said: “Its just you and Jesus. If you have the Eucharist dont demand anything else”. Thats a later invention from parishes gone stiff and lukewarm. The Church in the beginning was a community of believers that shared all things and loved each other.

My own experience is also, as long one is an elite Christian total on fire with Christ, praying and fasting and going to Mass out of zeal, one will do fine in the Catholic Church… but if one comes into a crisis one is most often isolated. There are too many Catholic parishes that dont even notice when the flock is getting smaller and people go elsewhere to get nourished body and soul.
There are some great parishes… but there are too many where new people are left alone, where people look to the priest to handle everything etc.

 

[LilyM]

I don’t think God is testing you at all. I don’t even think the Devil is trying to keep you out of the Church!

I think it’s mostly Murphy of Murphy’s Law: “Whatever can go wrong, will go wrong.”

It sounds like a very disorganized parish, where people don’t know where their heads are. You will have to be organized for them.

(And if some people just can’t be bothered, bother the heck out of 'em until they see it’s less trouble to give you help than not. Please keep trying. Like Jesus said, you just have to keep knocking at the door, like the man waking up his friend to get bread or the widow seeking justice. Storm heaven with your prayers, and ask everybody at the parish at the same time.)

Send a letter or email to the parish office every week. Reference every previous time that you’ve written (by calendar date if you can), so they know how often you’ve tried to get in touch with them.

If you really can’t get a straight answer from the secretary, you could always send something to the priest that he has to sign for and send you a receipt back, like registered mail!

This is a matter of eternal salvation, both yours and theirs! Don’t give up. Eternal life is worth fighting for.

Mintaka

PS - A few years from now, when you’re in the Church and know all these folks, you will look back on all this trouble and smile.

I would say don’t bother with the secretaries at all, if they haven’t helped this far.

Simply bail the priest up before or after Mass, tell him you have been trying for weeks (or longer?) to speak to him about converting, without success. Then ask him what time would be convenient for him. If he says ‘talk to the secretaries’, say ‘I’ve already left x number of messages with them without success’.

If he doesn’t arrange the appointment with you then and there, say ‘well thanks - if you could bring your diary with you next Saturday/Sunday I’ll be at this mass again. I’ll bring mine and we can organize something then.’

If he again mentions talking to the secretaries, just politely remind him again of how many times you’ve tried to do so, without success, and refuse to take no for an answer.

 

[sky_heart]

Hi pristine2!
I didn’t have much to chime in except that it took my family and I over three years to become Catholic. Literally, it seemed after a while, that either we weren’t meant to become Catholic or that something (most likely forces of evil?- in our case we were CERTAIN it was the Devil…usually 1 or 2 odd things happen, I chalk it up to bad luck, but repeated and persistent cases of bad luck are usually are indicative something much more vile is afoot, in my experience) were trying their earnest best to make sure that we would turn away, discouraged. The first year, every church we tried had already started their program 2-3 weeks prior to us calling. The second year, my husband got deployed, I was pregnant- he had absolutely no way to convert at his deployed location and I was informed again (by a secretary, no less- ironic, right?) by our military church that it was too late (late found out, upon speaking to a military priest that this woman had lied to us and that if she had told us the truth “we’d already be Catholic”- lol sigh. The third year, the RCIA class we kind of had no choice of going to (long story) wouldn’t work with our schedule so I found a different parish that would (thank goodness!) and it truly happened for us. We were ready to give up entirely, but I think that’s just when you need to double down.

This past Easter (although my husband and I graduated from a literally HORRIBLE program- ugh, another dreaded long story short, lol), we became Catholics and had our babies baptized in the church! We currently don’t have a parish now, the last parish pushed us away for the most part so we’re floating about trying to find our “home”, so to speak. It’s sad but i’m finding the same complacency you’re experiencing is what i’ve experienced and, to some extent, far more rampant that some would care to acknowledge. I believe, given the remoteness of your location and the circumstances it presents, you might perhaps google RCIA manuals (the archdiocese of the military makes a not so bad one- milarch.org)- try to really just delve into as much as you can. Do more independent research on ways to integrate Catholicism in the home (The Catholic Home and the Big Book of Catholic Customs and Traditions are both two books i’m aspiring to get)- maybe create a home altar, have the kids pray with you, read daily missal readings and maybe pick several scriptures to read a week, pray the rosary with your kids, etc.,- there are many ways you can practice it without necessarily being Catholic immediately (i’m sure you already know this but i’m just throwing in some things to help! )

After having gone through this experience with my husband and kids, i’ve definitely found that the best teacher, genuinely and truly, is yourself and that sometimes it does help to bombard a priest (politely and respectfully) and get a straight answer. I’ve sometimes found some of these people working in the church are there to test people to see if they genuinely “want” to be Catholic, or sometimes just like messing with people. RCIA may be the only way to become Catholic but there is a wealth of information to learn in the interim…perhaps delve into some, lay low for a while, return to the church in due time, and see what happens. For all you know they might forget all about it and you can kind of slip in beneath the radar, go to mass, make yourself seen and then approach the priest in due time. I’m not sure if any of my advice might help, but hopefully it does! You’re in my prayers, friend!

 

[pristine2]

I want to thank all of you again for your responses. I really appreciate it, and it has helped ease the sting about what happened.

A core message in what people have said is that it’s the relationship with God, not Christians, that counts. Indeed when I wrote the Priest’s secretary about what happened, and our feeling that the community was closed to us, this was her reply:

+++
Dear xxx,

I’m sorry to hear that.

All churches are made up of individuals, who are as full of human failings as any of us. Being a Christian is ONLY about a relationship with Christ; all other blessings follow that. So regardless of your decision about attending a community service anywhere, I would recommend that you seek a relationship with Him first.

Again, an Alpha Course is the easiest way to learn about Him.

With sincere best wishes to you all,
XXX
+++++++

I’d written not to complain about how we were treated, but just to tell her what had happened, and to say that I felt isolated and unwelcome. Anyway, it does not matter now, I suppose.

It does provide solace to hear the people on this forum encourage me to stay, to work toward joining the church, and to have faith that it will all work out in the end.

But I’ve sat in my room most of the day, reading, thinking, reflecting. I can only rely on my judgement and my intuition. The experience last night, my failed attempts to integrate my family with the Catholic community, and the letter above (which, sincere as it is, underscores to me the distant, perfunctory response we’ve had all along), are all clearly pointing me away from the Catholic Church.

I understand that the liturgy is supposed to be central to the Christian experience, and that of course requires the church. I caught glimpses of this during my church attendance over the past 18 months. But it is harder to remember now. What I think about most is the humiliation I felt last night, the sense that I exposed my children to ridicule, the overwhelming feeling that we do not belong here.

What I care about most is the well-being of my children – spiritually and socially. It is their relationship with god – and their community – that matters to me. I cannot accept the notion of this grand separation between God and the Christians who worship him. Of course God is perfect, and we are not. Lord knows I am not.

But there must be something of God in each of us. Surely the community, and our relationship with it, must be fundamental to a Christian existence. Surely, it must be a priority for people who follow in the footsteps of Christ.

If the priest’s secretary meant what she wrote – that being a Catholic is ONLY about one’s relationship with Christ – Catholicism is not for me.

Even if I am wrong about that, I have to think like a parent first, and that parent in me is saying: “your children do not belong here.” That we could find ourselves in such a helpless, hapless position after 18 months lends credence to this voice. For whatever reason, we have been unable to become Catholic, at least in the cultural sense of the word. The church does not seem to care whether we are part of it or not. It is not supposed to make a difference that we were not born Catholic and were not raised in the traditions and rituals of the church. But it does.

I don’t see a way forward here. And my wife – who had not objected before – does not want the children going to church any more.

I will attend to their spiritual education as best I can. One friend suggested I try to re-acquaint myself with the Society of Friends – the Quakers. I went to a Quaker High School, so there is at least some existing connection. Although in Hong Kong, the Quaker community is vanishingly small, and far from our little house in the mountains.

Realistically, I suppose it will be a long time before I reach out to any churches again.

So thanks again for all of your thoughts and good wishes. You really did help me cope with the hurt in all of this. I hope I have not caused any offence.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

OP, I am sorry to hear that you have allowed this experience to turn you away from joining the Church that Jesus established over 2,000 years ago. You said our Mass is about the liturgy, when in actual fact, it is about Jesus’ sacrifice and His Body and Blood as he commanded his apostles to eat and drink. The Mass is about Jesus, period.

You say you are thinking mainly of your children. Well, you are cutting them off from the grace of the sacraments, because of what I read as your own cowardice in facing down embarrassment. You made an honest mistake, yet you are going to allow that one event to turn you away from the Church. My friend, you may not see it, but that is pride.

I will add you to my prayers. Of course I am not going to applaud your interest in the Quakers. I think you will eventually return to the Church, and I hope you think about this whole thing again, more honestly this time. There may be other reasons why you don’t want to join the Church, but to quit because you happened to get noises of disapproval for a mistake? I’m not buying it. What happens if you drive up the wrong way on a one-way street? You get honked at and rude gestures are given. What happens if you call someone, “Ma’am” and it’s a male? You get frowns and perhaps curses. Life is full of those moments when, through no fault of our own, others disapprove of a mistake we have made. To allow such a thing to stop you cold in your approach to the Truth…Well, think about it. Pray about it. Ask God to show you where you are too proud to accept humility and yet, continue in the direction you know He is asking you to pursue.

Also, please do not blame the Catholic Church for the rude behavior of people in other cultures. One of the other posters has said that he/she has received the very same types of hisses from Chinese in America, so it’s common and not specific to you. Your experience stems from where you are located. I have also warned you that the Alpha program is NOT Catholic, so you should really talk to the diocese about RCIA programs and see if they are all using the Alpha program. Is there some reason you will not call the diocese?

 

[GraceDK]

I want to thank all of you again for your responses. I really appreciate it, and it has helped ease the sting about what happened.

A core message in what people have said is that it’s the relationship with God, not Christians, that counts. Indeed when I wrote the Priest’s secretary about what happened, and our feeling that the community was closed to us, this was her reply:

Realistically, I suppose it will be a long time before I reach out to any churches again.

So thanks again for all of your thoughts and good wishes. You really did help me cope with the hurt in all of this. I hope I have not caused any offence.

Dear brother…
I so hope for you for your own sake, that you find a congregation. Try some others. God says: Its not good for man to be alone.
You will thrive within a good congregation, and I hope you look into one or two more (Catholic or Protestant is of less importance) before you give up.

God bless you. Hugs!

 

[pristine2]

Hi:

You said our Mass is about the liturgy …

Did I? What I’d meant to say is that mass was central to being Catholic, at least as I’ve come to perceive it. I thought that would infer an understanding of the Eucharist. Of course everything I know thus far comes from books, not people. And I don’t have any experience talking or writing about religion. I wish I had engaged this forum a long time ago.

The Mass is about Jesus, period.

I’m sorry, I don’t grasp this. Of course it is about Jesus. But if it is ONLY about Him, why are we there? What kept me coming to mass were the sermons, in which the priest spoke about the Holy Spirit, about a Christian’s connection with the Holy Spirit, how He is manifested within the lives of Christians, and how humanity is endowed with the grace of the divine. And yes, I do attach importance to the community itself, the people in the church, to being among other Christians.

I also took to heart what I read were the three pillars of Catholic formation: kerygma, liturgy, and diakonia. I approached these as a discipline. In the first two, things came naturally. I could see them expressed in the people around me, and I tried to make them a reality for my children. We prayed. We attended mass. I made time to set aside the utilitarian demands of life to focus on the bible and Catholic literature. For the first time in my life, I acknowledged & spoke openly about the spiritual basis of my own existence.

It was the last part – diakonia – that never manifested for me. Surprising and disappointing, because the notion of service was something very important in my family, though we weren’t Catholic. I saw charity, but as for ministry, nothing seemed to apply to us.

You say you are thinking mainly of your children. Well, you are cutting them off from the grace of the sacraments, because of what I read as your own cowardice in facing down embarrassment.

Had the congregation just been hissing at me, I’d be well over it by now. But my precious children were at my side. I’d brought them to the front out of love, as I had every Sunday before then. Please don’t belittle how horrible & humiliating the experience was.

I don’t doubt my own shortcomings. But I think you don’t quite understand how I perceive what happened. Our very presence had somehow contaminated the sacrament, as if we were pariahs. The past 18 months came rushing back. We had approached the church, and it had repelled us, like we were some kind of infection. I can’t ignore this.

I feel ostracised – and ostracism is precisely what I am compelled to protect my children from. I might be willing to take this risk, but not for my children – especially my oldest child, for whom exclusion has already been a defining factor in his life. He was excluded from his own community. We have to bus him 25 miles away because no local school was “equipped to meet his needs.” Except for his family, he is utterly alone.

I like to feel I’ve made more progress in my own connection with Jesus. In that, the Church has made a difference, and for this I’m grateful. But the experience raised real doubts in me that the Church is the only place I, or my children, can establish a relationship with Him.

And it is very hard to ignore the voice of grandfather, who often told me as a child – “don’t hang around where you’re not welcome.”

I will add you to my prayers. Of course I am not going to applaud your interest in the Quakers. I think you will eventually return to the Church, and I hope you think about this whole thing again, more honestly this time.

Thank you for adding us to your prayers. And when you say you are a “Catholic with a vengeance,” what do you mean? Who is the target of this vengeance?

I do hear a calling. That’s why we showed up at church. If I have to prove to others somehow that my relationship with Jesus is sincere, I can try. But it’s clear to me now that being Catholic is a lot more complicated than that.

Also, please do not blame the Catholic Church for the rude behavior of people in other cultures.

I’m not even sure that their behaviour was rude, and the people hissing at us were not Chinese. I don’t blame the Church. I feel sadness that we were not born into it. But yes, at some level, it felt that the church itself was hissing at us: “Go away.”

I have also warned you that the Alpha program is NOT Catholic, so you should really talk to the diocese about RCIA programs and see if they are all using the Alpha program. Is there some reason you will not call the diocese?

I hadn’t understood that there was disagreement among Catholics about Alpha, which I was never able to attend anyway.

Your remark does explain one thing that had troubled me. I visited the US last year and attended church in a small town where, one day, we hope to live. After mass I spoke to the priest. He also reacted with frowns when I told him about Alpha and (at that point) I was about to start classes. He told me I should NOT attend, and walked away without explanation. I’d wondered how I had offended him.

But as for calling the diocese, I’m not sure what it would accomplish. The very act would seem like a complaint that our priest, a very respected man, had erred somehow, drawing even more negative attention to ourselves.

Anyway, I have too many doubts now that the Church is the right place for us. I want to find a community of Christians that will accept us, that is interested in us, that will reach out to us, that is ready to help us be Christians. I want a safe, warm, loving community for my child. That’s my priority. If that’s selfish and un-Catholic, it’s all the more reason I do not belong.

 

[sky_heart]

Hi again!
I only wanted to say to you that I completely understand how you currently feel. I can’t even believe what the secretary wrote to you, but I am not surprised. I believe at this time that maybe it might provide you some comfort to move away from the church at this time, even if its indefinite- my family and I did this (in-between the times we were trying to become Catholic), and somehow even after gravitating away (as it became very irritating and generally frustrating that we were trying so hard and nothing was working), we always felt ourselves drawn back. Trust me, we have been where you are right now… heck, even my husband and I used to fight about it- he didn’t want to try anymore and I did…but in our hearts we wanted it and eventually, the stars aligned.

I must agree with everything you’ve written again. Generally (even in my short time on this forum) there aren’t so many understanding, welcoming people. In short, the Christian “spirit” (of where people treat one another with respect and kindness) is genuinely hard to find. Some individuals believe they can treat others however they may like because they feel they know more and their “truth” backs up what they say, Why would anyone want to join a religion that does everything but physically push you away from it? I have (and in some ways, currently do) feel the same way as you describe. But I implore you- take a break, a long break if necessary, and if you find yourself living in a different country or place, look into it again, maybe. But first and foremost, do what is in your heart. If your need is to protect your family at this point and time from the volatile people you have come into contact with then safeguard your family first.

All in all I have found, just because someone says they follow Christ, does not mean they are “of Christ”- even if they claim to be fervent in their beliefs, it doesn’t mean they are even true or earnest in following God or aspiring to be in his likeness. Sometimes those who claim they are religious are truly devils “in sheep’s clothing” and may seek to lead you astray…I’m sure what i’m saying will not be received well here, but i’m speaking from my heart… God knows what is in your heart, believe me. You sound like a truly wonderful father and leader for your family- trust in your heart and your faith in God. You will make the right decision.