Very Confused

[lumenjesuchrist]

Ok so Christianity, is that the religion that Catholic is, or isn’t Catholic a religion? I had someone tell me today that Methodist and Catholic are of the same religion, Christianity. Is there anything wrong with that? I don’t see how that makes sense. Sorry if this sounds dumb I am just very confused. Thanks for the help ! God Bless…

 

[Ignatius]

Ok so Christianity, is that the religion that Catholic is, or isn’t Catholic a religion? I had someone tell me today that Methodist and Catholic are of the same religion, Christianity. Is there anything wrong with that? I don’t see how that makes sense. Sorry if this sounds dumb I am just very confused. Thanks for the help ! God Bless…

When Christ was on Earth in the Flesh He founded His Church, as He said that He would do. That Church was The Catholic Church. St. Ignatius of Antioch letter is the oldest written reference to this around A.D. 107, but it is usual for terms to be in use for quite a long time before they are found in written for so it was probably in use by the mid first century. For 16 centuries The Catholic Church was the only Christian Church. Then in the 1530’s some men separated from the Church that Christ founded and started their own churches, after that, some more men split from them and started their own churches, and this has continued down to this day so that there are thousands of churches separated from the original Church that Jesus founded. However, we are pleased to call those brothers who also say with us that Jesus Christ is Lord.

 

[joanofarc2008]

Here is the official Vatican Statement on this subject and the link to the full document - I hope that this will make better sense to you:

Lumen Gentium

1. The Church recognizes that in many ways she is linked with those who, being baptized, are honored with the name of Christian, though they do not profess the faith in its entirety or do not preserve unity of communion with the successor of Peter. (14*) For there are many who honor Sacred Scripture, taking it as a norm of belief and a pattern of life, and who show a sincere zeal. They lovingly believe in God the Father Almighty and in Christ, the Son of God and Saviour. (15*) They are consecrated by baptism, in which they are united with Christ. They also recognize and accept other sacraments within their own Churches or ecclesiastical communities. Many of them rejoice in the episcopate, celebrate the Holy Eucharist and cultivate devotion toward the Virgin Mother of God.(16*) They also share with us in prayer and other spiritual benefits. Likewise we can say that in some real way they are joined with us in the Holy Spirit, for to them too He gives His gifts and graces whereby He is operative among them with His sanctifying power. Some indeed He has strengthened to the extent of the shedding of their blood. In all of Christ’s disciples the Spirit arouses the desire to be peacefully united, in the manner determined by Christ, as one flock under one shepherd, and He prompts them to pursue this end. (17*) Mother Church never ceases to pray, hope and work that this may come about. She exhorts her children to purification and renewal so that the sign of Christ may shine more brightly over the face of the earth.

 

[ClayPots47]

Ok so Christianity, is that the religion that Catholic is, or isn’t Catholic a religion? I had someone tell me today that Methodist and Catholic are of the same religion, Christianity. Is there anything wrong with that? I don’t see how that makes sense. Sorry if this sounds dumb I am just very confused. Thanks for the help ! God Bless…

Jesus founded a church, the Christian Church we know as Catholic. Then came various schisms which separated many of the churches in the east from the west. They became the Orthodox Churches. Later on, the Protestant Churches were founded by men unhappy with the True Faith, and thought It was in error. They founded separate denominations, which later divided into yet even more denominations, and continues to this day. Methodist and Catholic are both Christian, in the same way apples and oranges are fruit. Though the apple and the orange are both a fruit, they are not the same. Neither are the Catholic and Methodist the same. They are each a denomination of the Christan Faith. So, yes. Methodism and Catholicism are the same religion, Christianity; but they are different denominations within Christianity. They share basic tenets (such as belief in the Trinity, the Apostles Creed), but they differ in others (The Eucharist, Faith vs Works). The Catholic Church has the fullness of the Faith and the Sacraments, the Orthodox do as well, except they don’t recognize the primacy of the Pope. The Protestant denominations have some of the truths of the Faith, and some of the Sacraments (at least Baptism), but are missing many of the others, or they are not complete (Such as Eucharist and Confirmation). Methodist and Catholic are the same religion (Christian) but different faiths/denomination under the umbrella of Christianity. HTH!

 

[Aelred_Minor]

Catholicism is the fullness of Christianity. It is Christianity with 100% of what is supposed to be in it (at least from a perspective of doctrine, the sacraments, and other means of salvation. Obviously we don’t have all the people who ought to be members ((everyone)) for example).

However, other groups have a great deal of revealed truth, and some, like traditional Wesleyan Methodists, have relatively few definitvely heretical beliefs, as opposed to simply incomplete beliefs.

At what point does a group diverge so far from the truth that they can no longer be considered a part of “Christianity”? Probably any boundary line is going to be somewhat arbitrary. Anyone with a valid baptism is a member of the Church, but you may have a baptized atheist who doesn’t even believe in God at all and a Oneness Pentecostal who may be a serious heretic with an invalid baptism but at least believes in God and the Bible.

If you identify Christianity in terms of belief rather than sacramental validity, then really it seems like there are two common standards.

Regarding ancient or even Medieval groups, it seems just about anyone who recognized Jesus as a central figure of their faith is often considered a Christian, even if they were completely off the map, like the Gnostics or Cathars. In this case I think “Christianity” wouldn’t really be a single religion but a term to describe any number of extremely different religions that acknowledged Jesus of Nazareth as a central figure.

With regard to modern groups though a common standard is belief in the Trinity and the Incarnation. For this reason Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Unitarian Universalists, the most extreme of “Liberal” Protestants (from a theological point of view; nothing necessarily about politics here), Oneness Pentecostals, etc. would not often be considered Christian (except perhaps by themselves), but most people who call themselves “Protestants,” “Evangelicals,” or “Non-denominational Christians” would be, and of course Orthodox and Catholic Christians.

 

[friendster324]

That person with whom you spoke was correct. Christianity is the religion, the DENOMINATIONS are Catholic, Methodist, Baptist, etc.

Another example would be in Islam, you have Sunni, Shia, Sufism, etc. We wouldn’t say they are different religions, just different “flavors” of the same religion, Islam.

Hope this helps

 

[Will_S]

That person with whom you spoke was correct. Christianity is the religion, the DENOMINATIONS are Catholic, Methodist, Baptist, etc.

This is wrong. Catholicism is a religion. It is the only true religion. It is the religion founded by Jesus Christ himself.

The word “Denominations” is just a 13-letter synonym for the word “names” that refers to the myriad protestant religions that are descended from those schismatics that separated themselves from the Catholic Church in the 16th century.

“Christianity” is useful as a group descriptor to describe the collection of all religions that claim to be based on the teachings of Jesus Christ. In that sense, Catholicism is one of the Christian religions.

On the other hand, “Christianity”, in the sense of that religion founded by Jesus Christ Himself is identical to the Catholic Church.

 

[Jim_Roberts]

This is very simple.

Is the Methodist Church in union with the Pope? No!

Is their body and blood the same as our Consecration. No!

Do they have holy days? No!

Is their minister called “Father?” No

I could go on and on, but do you get the concept?

Do they wear clerical collars? No some might do]

 

[joanofarc2008]

Please look back at my post if you want the actual, official teaching that is in union with Rome. Thank you.

 

[followingtheway]

Ok so Christianity, is that the religion that Catholic is, or isn’t Catholic a religion? I had someone tell me today that Methodist and Catholic are of the same religion, Christianity. Is there anything wrong with that? I don’t see how that makes sense. Sorry if this sounds dumb I am just very confused. Thanks for the help ! God Bless…

Christianity is a religion. There are many types of Christianity. Catholics are types of Christian. In fact, we’re the first ones. But some Christians didn’t agree with our Church teachings and made their own churches, which are Eastern Orthodox, Methodist, Baptist, Lutheran, Anglican/Episcopalians, Calvinists, Presbyterians, Pentecostals and so on…

God bless :byzsoc:

Davod

 

[wisdomseeker]

That person with whom you spoke was correct. Christianity is the religion, the DENOMINATIONS are Catholic, Methodist, Baptist, etc.

Another example would be in Islam, you have Sunni, Shia, Sufism, etc. We wouldn’t say they are different religions, just different “flavors” of the same religion, Islam.

Hope this helps

No, the person who spoke this is not correct. One cannot compare the Church that our God found with something that is found by man out of disobedience to the Church found by Christ.

Jesus did not teach heresy. He tought the Truth and it is the Truth that we must hold and defend. I know how confusing it is for many today, since we have not defend the Holy Faith for a while now. Many have mix Truth with lies and got all confused. Half truths is no Truth.

Relativism and syncretism have been making their way into the minds of many. Watch out that you don’t fall into the lies of the enemy of God. Just read what St Paul says about those who teach falsehoods about God. There are many simple things that some were saying but St Paul was very adamant about defending the Truth.

 

[Ignatius]

Do they wear clerical collars? No some might do]

This is an unfortunate choice. Most of the priests I see anymore don’t either.

 

[friendster324]

No, the person who spoke this is not correct. One cannot compare the Church that our God found with something that is found by man out of disobedience to the Church found by Christ

They ARE correct. Catholicism is a denomination of Christianity. As is Episcopal, Presbyterian, Baptist, Lutheran, etc. I am stating facts, not making value judgments about the truthfulness of these faiths.

I in NO WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM stated that all denominations are equal or that they have the fullness of truth as the Catholic Church holds. The Catholic Church is the TRUE church founded by Christ upon the Rock that is Peter. Stating that it is a denomination in no way diminishes the former facts.

 

[GraceSofia]

Ok so Christianity, is that the religion that Catholic is, or isn’t Catholic a religion? I had someone tell me today that Methodist and Catholic are of the same religion, Christianity. Is there anything wrong with that? I don’t see how that makes sense. Sorry if this sounds dumb I am just very confused. Thanks for the help ! God Bless…

Here is a good short video that should lessen confusion: youtube.com/watch?v=roum4zbJ8ZQ&feature=player_embedded (It’s Fr Barron).

 

[FCEGM]

They ARE correct. Catholicism is a denomination of Christianity. As is Episcopal, Presbyterian, Baptist, Lutheran, etc. I am stating facts, not making value judgments about the truthfulness of these faiths.

I in NO WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM stated that all denominations are equal or that they have the fullness of truth as the Catholic Church holds. The Catholic Church is the TRUE church founded by Christ upon the Rock that is Peter. Stating that it is a denomination in no way diminishes the former facts.

Catholicism is not a denomination. This should help:

philvaz.com/apologetics/a130.htm

 

[Ignatius]

Catholicism is not a denomination. This should help:

philvaz.com/apologetics/a130.htm

Precisely! Thank you.

 

[friendster324]

Ok… this seems like such a straight forward question-answer to me… apparently “denomination” is a word you don’t like. so help me out. set me straight.

We agree on this: that the Christian church for the first 1000 years is what we would recognize as the Catholic church today. Christ founded the Church on Peter and everything was united until 1054 (save historical nuances).

AFTER THAT, the East separated, then with the reformation others broke, Luther, Calvin, etc.

So my question is: If Catholicism is a religion and not a denomination, is Eastern Orthodoxy a religion? Are other ecclesiastical communities like Baptism, Methodism, Anglicanism, a religion? What is the “correct” term here? I understand that the fullness of truth is found in Catholicism and that these other faiths have “elements” of truth just not the fullness. Again, I am not trying to make value judgments, just trying to get on the same page with terminology.

 

[FCEGM]

Ok… this seems like such a straight forward question-answer to me… apparently “denomination” is a word you don’t like. so help me out. set me straight.

The reason we don’t like the word is that it isn’t accurate in applying it to the Church.

We agree on this: that the Christian church for the first 1000 years is what we would recognize as the Catholic church today. Christ founded the Church on Peter and everything was united until 1054 (save historical nuances).

AFTER THAT, the East separated, then with the reformation others broke, Luther, Calvin, etc.

So my question is: If Catholicism is a religion and not a denomination, is Eastern Orthodoxy a religion? Are other ecclesiastical communities like Baptism, Methodism, Anglicanism, a religion? What is the “correct” term here?

More accurately said, Catholicism is the Church, not a denomination. The Church and all the Christian denominations are religions in that religion in whatever form (Christian or not) is ordered to the worship of God or a higher principle that oneself. If an expression of Christianity has authentic apostolicity, even in schism, it is a Church (though not fully Catholic because of its separation from the See of Peter). All others are ecclesial communities or “denominations” since they have separated themselves from the Church and its apostolicity and its apostolic faith in varying degrees.

I understand that the fullness of truth is found in Catholicism and that these other faiths have “elements” of truth just not the fullness. Again, I am not trying to make value judgments, just trying to get on the same page with terminology.

Understood.

Lumen Gentium, the Dogmatic Constitution of the Church, should be helpful as it addresses the identity of the Church and her relationship with other apostolic Churches and ecclesial communities:

1. Christ, the one Mediator, established and continually sustains here on earth His holy Church, the community of faith, hope and charity, as an entity with visible delineation (9*) through which He communicated truth and grace to all. But, the society structured with hierarchical organs and the Mystical Body of Christ, are not to be considered as two realities, nor are the visible assembly and the spiritual community, nor the earthly Church and the Church enriched with heavenly things; rather they form one complex reality which coalesces from a divine and a human element.(10*) For this reason, by no weak analogy, it is compared to the mystery of the incarnate Word. As the assumed nature inseparably united to Him, serves the divine Word as a living organ of salvation, so, in a similar way, does the visible social structure of the Church serve the Spirit of Christ, who vivifies it, in the building up of the body.(73) (11*)

This is the one Church of Christ which in the Creed is professed as one, holy, catholic and apostolic, (12*) which our Saviour, after His Resurrection, commissioned Peter to shepherd,(74) and him and the other apostles to extend and direct with authority,(75) which He erected for all ages as “the pillar and mainstay of the truth”.(76) This Church constituted and organized in the world as a society, subsists in the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the Bishops in communion with him,(13*) although many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside of its visible structure. These elements, as gifts belonging to the Church of Christ, are forces impelling toward catholic unity. . . .

1. . . .They are fully incorporated in the society of the Church who, possessing the Spirit of Christ accept her entire system and all the means of salvation given to her, and are united with her as part of her visible bodily structure and through her with Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. The bonds which bind men to the Church in a visible way are profession of faith, the sacraments, and ecclesiastical government and communion. He is not saved, however, who, though part of the body of the Church, does not persevere in charity. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but, as it were, only in a “bodily” manner and not “in his heart.”(12*) All the Church’s children should remember that their exalted status is to be attributed not to their own merits but to the special grace of Christ. If they fail moreover to respond to that grace in thought, word and deed, not only shall they not be saved but they will be the more severely judged.(13*)

continued

 

[FCEGM]

1. The Church recognizes that in many ways she is linked with those who, being baptized, are honored with the name of Christian, though they do not profess the faith in its entirety or do not preserve unity of communion with the successor of Peter. (14*) For there are many who honor Sacred Scripture, taking it as a norm of belief and a pattern of life, and who show a sincere zeal. They lovingly believe in God the Father Almighty and in Christ, the Son of God and Saviour. (15*) They are consecrated by baptism, in which they are united with Christ. They also recognize and accept other sacraments within their own Churches or ecclesiastical communities. Many of them rejoice in the episcopate, celebrate the Holy Eucharist and cultivate devotion toward the Virgin Mother of God.(16*) They also share with us in prayer and other spiritual benefits. Likewise we can say that in some real way they are joined with us in the Holy Spirit, for to them too He gives His gifts and graces whereby He is operative among them with His sanctifying power. Some indeed He has strengthened to the extent of the shedding of their blood. In all of Christ’s disciples the Spirit arouses the desire to be peacefully united, in the manner determined by Christ, as one flock under one shepherd, and He prompts them to pursue this end. (17*) Mother Church never ceases to pray, hope and work that this may come about. She exhorts her children to purification and renewal so that the sign of Christ may shine more brightly over the face of the earth.

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html

 

[joanofarc2008]

vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html

So due to paragraph 15 we call them Christian but we do not use the word denomination - what other word would you propose - because I know Pope Benedict has a few that I kind of liked from Light of the World but I would like to hear your opinion.