Very Interesting!

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Life TV’s Father Zakaria Botros recently ran a show dedicated to discussing the question of morality and how it is—or should be—one of the hallmarks of “prophethood.” At the start, he posed the focal question of the show: “Was Muhammad the prophet a moral man—the most upright man, worthy of being emulated by the world?”

He opened the show by relying on an Ibn Taymiyya quote, which evaluated the signs of prophethood. Taymiyya asserted that there are many false-prophets, such as Musailima “the Liar,” a contemporary of Muhammad. Taymiyya concluded that many of these so-called prophets are, in fact, “possessed,” and that the only way to determine the authenticity of any prophet is by examining his biography (sira) and deeds, and see if he be found worthy of the title.

Being that this is the first of several episodes devoted to examining the concepts of morality and prophethood (with the notion that the former reinforces the latter), the theme for this particular episode was “purity” (tahara): “Was Muhammad a ‘pure’ man?”—in this context, a question concerning his sexual mores (or lack thereof).

After the preliminaries, Botros looked at the camera and gave a stern warning: “This episode is for adults only! I am going to discuss many things that make me blush for shame, so please: have the women and children leave the room.”

He then asked Muslims watching to keep in mind the question “Is this the prophet I follow?” as he delineated some of Muhammad’s sexual habits.

First, from the Koran, Botros read verses unequivocally stating that Muhammad is the paragon of all virtue and morality, such as “And most surely you [Muhammad] conform (yourself) to sublime morality [68: 4].” He further quoted the ulema, such as Ibn Kathir, all insisting that Muhammad was the “Noblest of all humanity, and the greatest of prophets.”

Botros and his ex-Muslim cohost—the priest had insisted that it be a man for this particular show, lest he be too ashamed to delineate Muhammad’s sexual habits—discussed Koran 4:3, which “limits” a Muslim’s wives to four, plus “what your right hands possess,” that is, slave-girls.

That was apparently not good enough for Muhammad, asserted Botros; an entire verse had to be “revealed” justifying more women for him (Koran 33:50). In fact, Father Botros has carefully compiled a list of all the women—66 are known—to have had sexual relations with Muhammad.

Botros said that was only normal: according to Sirat Al-Halabi, Muhammad can have a woman no matter what, even against her will; and if Muhammad desired a married woman, her husband would have had to divorce her. According to Ibn Sa’ad, who wrote another authoritative biographical account of Muhammad, “The prophet did not die till all women were permitted him” (see Kitab Al Tabaqat Al Kubra, v.8, 194).

The co-host, rather abruptly, interjected – “What of all those rumors that Muhammad exhibited homosexual tendencies?”

Botros dropped his face in his hands and mumbled, “So you still insist we discuss that?” The co-host was adamant, saying it was for Muslims’ own good to know everything.

Thus Botros, after profusely apologizing to his Muslim viewers, saying how embarrassing this was for him, declared: “Look! We’re merely readers here, bringing up what we have read in Islam’s own books! If Muslims don’t like it, they should go and burn these books.”

The first anecdote discussed by the priest revolved around a hadith that, while some ulema say is “weak,” is, nonetheless according to Botros, present in 44 Islamic books—including some highly respected collections, such as Sunan Bayhaqi and Al Halabi.

According to this hadith, a man named Zahir, who used to declare that “the prophet loves me,” said that one day Muhammad crept unawares behind him and put him in a bear-hug. Zahir, alarmed, yelled, “Get off me!” After turning his head and discovering that it was Muhammad, he stopped struggling and proceeded to “push his back into the prophet’s chest—prayers and blessings upon him."

Another curious hadith contained in Sunan Bayhaqi and which traces to Sunan Abu Dawud (one of the six canonical hadith collections), has Muhammad lifting up his shirt for a man who proceeded to kiss his entire torso, “from his bellybutton to his armpits.”

Botros looked casually at the camera and said, “Imagine if the sheikh of Al Azhar [nearest Muslim equivalent to the pope] went around lifting his shirt for men to kiss his torso” (he proceeded to make smacking kissing noises, for effect).

Said the co-host: “Surely there’s more?”

Botros: “Indeed there is. No less than 20 Islamic sources—such as the hadiths of Ahmad bin Hanbal—relay that Muhammad used to suck on the tongues of boys and girls"…

[Stay tuned for part II of “The perverse sexual habits of the Prophet”]
 
This post is both disgusting and absurd, both rude and inflammatory. I shall be exceedingly disappointed if this thread is not very shortly shut down.
 
This post is both disgusting and absurd, both rude and inflammatory. I shall be exceedingly disappointed if this thread is not very shortly shut down.
Why? What’s wrong with it? I thought this was common knowledge…🤷
 
This post is both disgusting and absurd, both rude and inflammatory. I shall be exceedingly disappointed if this thread is not very shortly shut down.
“Look! We’re merely readers here, bringing up what we have read in Islam’s own books! If Muslims don’t like it, they should go and burn these books.”
 
These descriptions of Muhammad’s behavior were not written by his detractors, they come from Islamic writings! If you can’t stomach them, why continue to believe in him?

Don’t accuse others of being rude for simply pointing out what’s in your own scriptures!

Vickie
 
How can Muslims bear to compare Muhammad to the sinless Christ!?
 
The first anecdote discussed by the priest revolved around a hadith that, while some ulema say is “weak,” is, nonetheless according to Botros, present in 44 Islamic books—
he stopped struggling and proceeded to “push his back into the prophet’s chest—prayers and blessings upon him."
Another curious hadith contained in Sunan Bayhaqi and which traces to Sunan Abu Dawud (one of the six canonical hadith collections),
Indeed there is. No less than 20 Islamic sources—
When posting something this aweful, one shoud post links to sources.
 
When posting something this aweful, one shoud post links to sources.
Another curious hadith contained in Sunan Bayhaqi and which traces to Sunan Abu Dawud (one of the six canonical hadith collections),

the above you can google it to find it. Other stuff are found in books that are either not translated into English, or not found online to read but he either holds the book in his hands to show it on tv, or he gives the name, author and page title. He says nothing out of thin air but quoting him is not like listening to his episodes.

i usually check what he says on google Arabic since in Arabic you find a billion thing not translated and which many Muslims don’t know about.
 
**
This post is both disgusting and absurd, both rude and inflammatory. I shall be exceedingly disappointed if this thread is not very shortly shut down.**

**1. But you have neither denied its truth nor proven it false.
  1. Promise?
In any case, what do you expect of a pedophile?

But you’re right. Mahomet (ptuy) IS disgusting. Why do you follow him?**
 
Salaam/peace
He opened the show by relying on an Ibn Taymiyya
why not rely on holy Bible ? Bible says Soloman (p) had 1000 wives & concubines . If he could marry 700 times & had relationship with 300 other women , why Christians raise objection against Muhammed (p) ?

Even if the comment is right that Muhammed (p) had relationship with 66 women , it’s much lesser number than Solomon(p) who is considered as the most wise man of his time or all time.

If u want to hate Muhamed (p) , then pl. justify your hatred showing Biblical verses .

“The truth has come, and falsehood has vanished!”

(Quran, 17:81)

" Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah. " Quran 33:21

The Life of The Last Prophet by Yusuf Islam ( ex Cat Stevens)

click to listen :

islamicity.com/audio/lprophet.ram
 
Salaam/peace

why not rely on holy Bible ? Bible says Soloman (p) had 1000 wives & concubines . If he could marry 700 times & had relationship with 300 other women , why Christians raise objection against Muhammed (p) ?
Because we don’t pretend that Solomon was “noblest of all humanity, and the greatest of prophets" like Moslems do with Mohammad. (Solomon was not a prophet, by the way).

Jesus forbad polygamy and divorce for Christians, and encouraged celibacy for the kingdom of God’s sake:

"And there came to [Jesus] the Pharisees tempting Him and saying: Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?
Who answering, said to them: Have ye not read that He Who made man from the beginning made them male and female? And He said: For this cause shall a man leave father and mother and shall cleave to his wife: and they TWO shall be in ONE flesh. Therefore now they are not TWO, but ONE FLESH. What therefore GOD hath joined together, LET NO MAN PUT ASUNDER.
“They say to him: Why then did Moses command to give a bill of divorce and to put away? He saith to them: Because Moses BY REASON OF THE HARDNESS OF YOUR HEART permitted you to put away your wives. BUT FROM THE BEGINNING IT WAS NOT SO. And I say to you that whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and he that shall marry her that is put away committeth adultery. His disciples say unto Him: If the case of a man with his wife be so, it is not expedient to marry. Who said to them: All men take not this word, but they to whom it is given. For there are eunuchs who were born so from their mother’s womb: and there are eunuchs who were made so by men: and there are eunuchs [celibates] who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven. He that can take, let him take it.” (HOLY GOSPEL according to ST MATTHEW, xix, 3-12)

By the way, Christians do not believe the prophets were sinless. There are only two people who are completely without sin–JESUS CHRIST and HIS MOTHER, the Blessed Virgin Mary.
The Bible, being completely true, records the facts about the prophets, even their faults and sins–unlike the deceitful Qur’an, which tries to paint a pretty picture of Mohammad, or the Hadith which records his sinful and strange actions but acts as though they are not really sins just because he is supposedly the “greatest prophet”! While the Bible does say that Solomon had hundreds of wives and concubines, it is obvious that God did not approve:
“And the king Solomon loved many strange women besides the daughter of Pharao. And women of Moab, and of Ammon, and of Edom, and of Sidon, and of the Hethites. Of the nations concerning which the Lord said to the children of Israel: YOU SHALL NOT GO IN UNTO THEM, NEITHER SHALL ANY OF THEM COME IN TO YOURS; FOR THEY WILL MOST CERTAINLY TURN AWAY YOUR HEART TO FOLLOW THEIR GODS. And to these was Solomon joined with a most ardent love. And he had 700 wives as queens, and 300 concubines. AND THE WOMEN TURNED AWAY HIS HEART. AND WHEN HE WAS NOW OLD, HIS HEART WAS TURNED AWAY BY WOMEN TO FOLLOW STRANGE GODS: AND HIS HEART WAS NOT PERFECT WITH THE LORD HIS GOD, AS WAS THE HEART OFF DAVID HIS FATHER. BUT SOLOMON WORSHIPPED ASTARTHE, THE GODDESS OF THE SIDONIANS, AND MOLOCH, THE IDOL OF THE AMMONITES. AND SOLOMON DID THAT WHICH WAS NOT PLEASING BEFORE THE LORD…AND THE LORD WAS ANGRY WITH SOLOMON BECAUSE HIS MIND WAS TURNED AWAY FROM THE LORD THE GOD OF ISRAEL.”
 
This post is both disgusting and absurd, both rude and inflammatory. I shall be exceedingly disappointed if this thread is not very shortly shut down.
Why? It’s only quoting the Hadith–is that rude and inflammatory? Or are you just upset because someone has brought up facts you’d prefer to ignore?

And yes, Mohammad was both disgusting and rude, and much worse than that–yet you still contend that he is the greatest prophet and the “noblest of creatures”??

…Some of you have twisted minds indeed!
 
But it doesn’t quote hadith. If it did quote hadith, this would be a different story. There’s hardly any hadith in it at all. Mostly it’s just outrageously offensive “commentary.”

The whole point is just to slander a man beloved by billions and to attempt to enrage Muslims in general. I’m not interested in taking the bait.
 
But it doesn’t quote hadith. If it did quote hadith, this would be a different story. There’s hardly any hadith in it at all. Mostly it’s just outrageously offensive “commentary.”

The whole point is just to slander a man beloved by billions and to attempt to enrage Muslims in general. I’m not interested in taking the bait.
Perhaps if they knew the truth their opinion would change.

The Truth is a stubborn thing.
 
No, this is not slander. We are simply stating the facts. If big Mo was truly holy man, we won’t be discussing about him in this manner. In a reality, he’s not. Just at a look at some of “holy” deeds by the prophet below.

Tabari VIII:116
Ishaq:511 “So Muhammad began seizing their herds and their property bit by bit. He conquered home by home. The Messenger took some of its people captive, including Safiyah, and her two cousins. The Prophet chose Safiyah for himself.”

Tabari VIII:121
Ishaq:515 “Safiyah was brought to him, and another woman with her. Bilal led them past some of the Jews we had slain including the woman’s dead husband. When she saw them, the woman with Safiyah cried out, slapped her face, and poured dust on her head. When Allah’s Prophet saw her, he said, ‘Take this she-devil away from me!’”

Ishaq:535 “The women began to cry after learning about Ja’far’s death. Disturbed, Muhammad told Abd-Rahman to silence them. When they wouldn’t stop wailing, Allah’s Apostle said, ‘Go and tell them to be quiet, and if they refuse throw dust in their mouths.’”
 
No, this is not slander. We are simply stating the facts. If big Mo was truly holy man, we won’t be discussing about him in this manner. In a reality, he’s not. Just at a look at some of “holy” deeds by the prophet below.

Tabari VIII:116
Ishaq:511 “So Muhammad began seizing their herds and their property bit by bit. He conquered home by home. The Messenger took some of its people captive, including Safiyah, and her two cousins. The Prophet chose Safiyah for himself.”

Tabari VIII:121
Ishaq:515 “Safiyah was brought to him, and another woman with her. Bilal led them past some of the Jews we had slain including the woman’s dead husband. When she saw them, the woman with Safiyah cried out, slapped her face, and poured dust on her head. When Allah’s Prophet saw her, he said, ‘Take this she-devil away from me!’”

Ishaq:535 “The women began to cry after learning about Ja’far’s death. Disturbed, Muhammad told Abd-Rahman to silence them. When they wouldn’t stop wailing, Allah’s Apostle said, ‘Go and tell them to be quiet, and if they refuse throw dust in their mouths.’”
The religion of peace!
 
Perhaps you didn’t realize that the post alleged Muhammad was a homosexual, that he was a pedophile, and such vile and distateful things that the speaker didn’t want to speak in front of women and children!

Have you no shame?

This is absolutely disgusting.
 
But it doesn’t quote hadith. If it did quote hadith, this would be a different story. There’s hardly any hadith in it at all. Mostly it’s just outrageously offensive “commentary.”

The whole point is just to slander a man beloved by billions and to attempt to enrage Muslims in general. I’m not interested in taking the bait.
Brother Bpbasilphx specifically noted that the hadith mentions those two instances of Muhammad’s homosexual tendencies. How do you respond to that? Are those instances actually not in hadith?
 
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