Very Negative Husband

[Rachel_1]

Ok, I’m going out on a limb here posting this, not too many people know about my issues in my current marriage and I’m really nervous about putting this in writing for reasons I don’t want to go into here (nothing to do with the marriage itself).
A little background:
I’m currently in RCIA, super happy that God led me to become Catholic. I was pagan up until 2005, then had a near death experience which made it clear that I shouldn’t be pagan. Events over the last 12 months have caused me to start going to church and enter RCIA.
I’ve been married 4 times (plz don’t give me grief about this, I know it was wrong, now… I didn’t at the time). 2 of my past husbands have passed away. I’m currently trying to get an annulment from a previous marriage that I don’t think I’ll have a problem getting an annulment (multiple reasons could be used for this).
When I started RCIA and started going to church, my husband (who was still pagan) got very upset about me doing this. He seemed to mellow out though after about a month.
Here’s the problem I’m having. He’s SUPER negative all the time. He used to not be like this. We had a good relationship in the beginning, but then he cheated on me. He went to counseling for it and everything, and things seemed ok until 2007.
At this point in time I began investigating my dad’s murder. He seemed fine at first with it, but refused to give me any support at all with all I was going through, which really hurt. Because of the complexities of the case, I had nobody to talk to about what I was going through investigating this or anything, only him, and he refused to talk about it, and was always putting me down for investigating it (which btw, after 28 yrs, we just got an arrest due to my investigation).
Since this time, he’s become the most rude, negative person I know. He has no problem being rude to my grandkids, my daughter or anyone… including me. I’m nervous about him being with me to meet people because of how rude he is.
I’m trying to do what I should, trying to live the Catholic life and not sin and everything, but no matter what I do, it’s never enough. Before I went to church, I had printed out divorce papers because it’s so bad, but now, I’m trying to make my marriage work… but nothing seems to work at all. I pray everyday for him and the rest of my family.
Yesterday I even tried sending him an “I love you” ecard… .I did this about 2 hours before he got home for lunch then I went to mass. When I got back, I stopped to get the mail and he made this big scene because he had to take his truck to work instead of my car, and of course, was rude. It’s almost like the ecard made no difference at all.
I forgot to mention too, that he’s cheated on me 3 times… once early on in our marriage (he went to counseling for this)… then last April (with the same person as the first time), and again in Aug (with a co-worker).
He also has a hard time holding down a job, and went for over a year just playing games on the computer (not even looking for a job). He seems lately like he’s trying to get fired from his job now too… like today he was really late, didn’t even call in or anything, and on Thanksgiving, he just walked out of work saying he didn’t want to be there.
I’m at a loss on what to do, or if I should even try anymore.
Hopefully I’ve given you guys enough background to give me some opinions, if not, I’m pretty open, so I’ll try to answer any additional questions.

 

[Rachel_1]

I should also mention, he’s never hit me or anything like that, because I know someone will probably ask.

 

[flyingfish]

My first question is, why do you want to remain in this marriage?

You are currently pursuing an annulment, if that is granted, does it mean your current marriage will become valid?

What if you leave your current husband before the annulment for your prior marriage is considered, will that free you from needing to get an annulment for this marriage too?

Maybe it’s not what you want to hear, but he cheated on you in April and August? That’s 2 separate affairs less than a year ago? What makes your marriage worth fighting for?

 

[TRD_jody]

My first question is, why do you want to remain in this marriage?
…
Maybe it’s not what you want to hear, but he cheated on you in April and August? That’s 2 separate affairs less than a year ago? What makes your marriage worth fighting for?

im going to agree with this person. same exact questions.

im only 21 but i’ve been through alot and seen alot.
I can relate because my step father is a HUGE jerk (forgive me but thats how he acts)
my mom says she loves him but will let him act the way he does towards me & my older sister.

Have you talked with him about this behavior?

 

[DihydrogenOxide]

My first question is, why do you want to remain in this marriage?

You are currently pursuing an annulment, if that is granted, does it mean your current marriage will become valid?

What if you leave your current husband before the annulment for your prior marriage is considered, will that free you from needing to get an annulment for this marriage too?

Maybe it’s not what you want to hear, but he cheated on you in April and August? That’s 2 separate affairs less than a year ago? What makes your marriage worth fighting for?

I second ffish’s first question. I would consider seriously whether remaining in this marriage is good for your own health, especially since he seems to have lost all emotion toward you and your/his family.

I would certainly pray about it. Also, don’t be surprised if you get some tough times about going to RCIA. The evil one will try to keep you from God.

Ask St. Joseph to intercede for you in this situation. He’s the most powerful saint besides Mary.

You’ll be in my prayers.

 

[Bailey2]

Ask the RICA director who is the best priest to talk to when you have something you want to talk to a priest about (no need for disclosure). Next, make an appt. Then, arrive and get reassurance from him that the meeting is confidential (it is; this is to reassure you if needed). Then, lay it out; question being what everyone here is asking: when is it OK to leave a marriage? Is it really a marriage when a spouse is cheating over and over again? What do you do if one former marriage is already in the annulment process and now you are in this one that is in trouble? Like that…

You may get a referral for counseling but also you will get some clarity how all this fits in with the faith without self-disclosure in a non-confidential setting.

For what that’s worth…
Prayers

 

[Irish_Becca]

Rachel, welcome to the Church.

First, I am so sorry about your father’s death and you are a wonderful daughter to pursue an investigation - I hope they got the murderer. You must have worked very hard to see this through.

I am no expert - in fact, I am going through a divorce and annulment now myself. My ex-husband’s issues are different than yours - lots of mental illness and personality disorders, but it seems that your husband is probably incredibly selfish, just as mine is. I wonder if you have talked to a priest yet? I think this would be an important step.

It seems like your husband does not value your marriage. I am sure you know what he is to you, but have you ever sat back and thought about what **you **are to him, really? Look over his actions - what he does, not says - and reflect on where he places you in his life.

Rachel, I am praying for you!

 

[Secret_Square]

I second everything said above, with the added point that getting your previous marriage annulled would NOT automatically make your current marriage valid.

In order for that to happen, you and your current husband would have to repeat your marriage vows before a priest or deacon (this is called “convalidation” when done by a couple who is already legally married).

Given the problems you are having right now, you might be better off not doing that. (You mentioned his rudeness to “your” daughter and grandchildren, so I presume you do not have children together and do not have young children at home.)

Regardless of what you decide to do with your current spouse, however, I would encourage you to go ahead with the annulment process on your previous marriage and get a final decision.

Should that marriage be ruled null and void, AND you leave your current spouse, you would simply be a single woman in the eyes of the Church. That would leave you not only free to marry again, but also free to consider religious life (some orders or institutes will accept divorced women who have annulments).

 

[mrpathetic]

1. Pick up the Boundaries book by Cloud and Townsend. You need to set legitimate boundaries in your relationship with your husband.
2. Have you had an STD test since your husband had his acts of adultery? If not, you need to get one, and probably repeat these tests every 6 months, indefinitely. Some diseases don’t reveal themselves until months or years after you are exposed.
3. Adultery, in and of itself, is not cause for annulment. But, it is legitimate reasons for separation. Maybe you need to set this boundary with your husband: He can commit all the acts of adultery we wants - but if he does this, you will not be there when he gets back. You will spend time at a relative’s or friends until he decides - and commits - to remain faithful.

 

[Rachel_1]

wow, ok, I didn’t expect this many replies.
First, yes, I’ve told him *exactly how I feel. I’m a very strong person, not in that I’m a nag or whatever, I just have self esteem, and don’t let him drag me down.
The cheating, we’ve talked about that, and of course, he says he won’t do it again… I’ve seen his emails, he’s not cheating now or anything.
I guess, the main issue is, we had a GREAT relationship in the past, and yes, I’m probably holding onto that memory. I’m hoping that somehow we can get back to that.
I am also a very analytical person so of course, I had to analyze what caused the breakdown in our marriage, and I’m fairly certain that it was a combo of his cheating, and my investigation… mostly the investigation.
The cheating of course was difficult, but the investigation is what seemed to change him from being caring, loving etc to this. After the first cheating incident, we had actually moved past all the feelings of hurt/guilt whatever.
To give you an idea of why I think the investigation is so hard on him, it’s because there’s mafia involvement, I’ve had death threats, been followed, and all sorts of weird stuff like that… I think he flipped out because of it or something.
Myself, I’m a survivor type of person, so yea, it was scary, but I have things in place to assure safety. And before anyone asks, yes the police are very much aware of the the threats etc. I work very closely with my cold case homicide detective and he knows about all the weird things. I also have spoken with my local sheriffs dept to assure our safety… and we’re still here, and still healthy, so I know what I’m doing to make sure we stay safe. I think however, that he doesn’t have that sort of confidence… mostly because he refuses to really talk about what’s going on, so he just doesn’t know.
Then we get to the fact that I’m joining the church… I’m still learning what a wife is supposed to be like in God’s eyes… I’m nowhere near perfect in the wife category either. I can be a little hardheaded, especially when it comes to him getting to work on time and things that may get him fired. I get frustrated too when he is rude to others. I don’t put him down or anything like that though… I usually will say something like “I wouldn’t talk to your family like that”.
Ok… my daughter is from a previous marriage, my first, where he passed away. My current husband and I have no children together, although he wants kids, but I’m 41, so age is a factor there, not to mention I’m nervous to have kids with all the weirdness going on currently in my life.
STD’s- I don’t have a need for that, because the stuff in April and Aug didn’t go “all the way”, I know this for a fact. The first incident, I did get tested and I’m all good.
Basically, the way we live now is that neither of us really talks to each other. As a matter of fact, he’s on his computer right by me now, and I’m over here typing this. I think we’ve said about 10 words to each other all night since he got home. When he does talk, it’s normally something negative, or putting someone down, or being rude. In a way, I almost feel it’s better just being silent so I can avoid the frustration of him being rude or negative.
I know, it all sounds awful, and it doesn’t feel so great to be in this situation, but honestly, is a negative, rude husband a reason to divorce according to the church and God? Should I just stick it out and hope for the best?
As far as getting our marriage blessed, I’m completely holding off on that till I figure out what is going on with the marriage.
Counseling- I suppose we could try it again, but it’s expensive, we have no insurance, and he doesn’t make much. I highly doubt I could get him to go speak with my priest either. I got him to go to RCIA once with me, he behaved, and wasn’t rude too much… but made a point to tell me afterward "it was the most boring #%@ing thing he’d ever been to, and he’d never be back"
I’m going off memory here for the responses, so if I missed answering a question in my mini book here lol, let me know.

 

[Rachel_1]

I second ffish’s first question. I would consider seriously whether remaining in this marriage is good for your own health, especially since he seems to have lost all emotion toward you and your/his family.

My health is fine I’m not one of those no self esteem type women who let their husband’s issues drag them down. Been there, done that in the past. It won’t happen again

I would certainly pray about it. Also, don’t be surprised if you get some tough times about going to RCIA. The evil one will try to keep you from God.

Ask St. Joseph to intercede for you in this situation. He’s the most powerful saint besides Mary.

You’ll be in my prayers.

Yes, I’ve realized that there are evil forces at work trying to give me a hard time with this. I ask St Michael to assist in this all the time.
I haven’t asked St Joseph to intercede yet… I’m still rather new to all of this, so I’m learning as fast as I can… but now that you’ve said that, I’ll do that.

 

[Rachel_1]

Rachel, welcome to the Church.

First, I am so sorry about your father’s death and you are a wonderful daughter to pursue an investigation - I hope they got the murderer. You must have worked very hard to see this through.

Yes, we have one arrest. It’s been in the media, which is why I was nervous to put all this out here… I have media people watching everything I do lately. The investigation is nowhere near over though.

I am no expert - in fact, I am going through a divorce and annulment now myself. My ex-husband’s issues are different than yours - lots of mental illness and personality disorders, but it seems that your husband is probably incredibly selfish, just as mine is. I wonder if you have talked to a priest yet? I think this would be an important step.

It seems like your husband does not value your marriage. I am sure you know what he is to you, but have you ever sat back and thought about what **you **are to him, really? Look over his actions - what he does, not says - and reflect on where he places you in his life.

Rachel, I am praying for you!

Yea, he is pretty selfish lately. The world revolves around him it seems lol, at least here at the house it should according to him.
I haven’t had a chance to speak with my priest yet about this. I’m still trying to get an appointment to discuss the annulment. I’ll bring it up though at that time, hopefully this week.
Yes, I’ve actually thought about what I am to him. I think he loves me still, but I think he’s expressing some emotion right now deep inside of him and it comes out like this. Honestly, another issue I think we have is that we are two completely different people now too, he still likes to party, I don’t. He likes Marilyn Manson, I don’t. He wants to go out with friends and get completely drunk and I become the DD because I don’t do that stuff anymore. I’ve changed. He doesn’t like how I’ve changed. I’m not the big party girl anymore. (sorry, this just hit me too). Perhaps that’s the real issue besides the investigation.
My changes happened WHILE I was investigating all of this so maybe that’s the real issue ~shrug~ I’m just typing outloud here lol.

 

[flyingfish]

Did any of the investigation fallout affect him? Was he followed? Were threats made against him?

His reaction would be understandable, I don’t mean to make you feel bad, but when you made the decision to pursue the investigation you made it for the both of you and as I understand it he wasn’t okay with it.

If I was with someone who did something that put me in danger, and created that kind of stress in my life I would carry massive resentment against that person. Frankly I would not have stayed with a person who put me in danger.

Maybe you owe him a huge apology for bringing the mafia into your life when he didn’t want you to go that route. Though I don’t know if an apology can ever be enough.

None of this justifies his affairs of course.

 

[FiberZilla]

Ok, I’m going out on a limb here posting this, not too many people know about my issues in my current marriage and I’m really nervous about putting this in writing for reasons I don’t want to go into here (nothing to do with the marriage itself).
A little background:
I’m currently in RCIA, super happy that God led me to become Catholic. I was pagan up until 2005, then had a near death experience which made it clear that I shouldn’t be pagan. Events over the last 12 months have caused me to start going to church and enter RCIA.
I’ve been married 4 times (plz don’t give me grief about this, I know it was wrong, now… I didn’t at the time). 2 of my past husbands have passed away. I’m currently trying to get an annulment from a previous marriage that I don’t think I’ll have a problem getting an annulment (multiple reasons could be used for this).
When I started RCIA and started going to church, my husband (who was still pagan) got very upset about me doing this. He seemed to mellow out though after about a month.
Here’s the problem I’m having. He’s SUPER negative all the time. He used to not be like this. We had a good relationship in the beginning, but then he cheated on me. He went to counseling for it and everything, and things seemed ok until 2007.
At this point in time I began investigating my dad’s murder. He seemed fine at first with it, but refused to give me any support at all with all I was going through, which really hurt. Because of the complexities of the case, I had nobody to talk to about what I was going through investigating this or anything, only him, and he refused to talk about it, and was always putting me down for investigating it (which btw, after 28 yrs, we just got an arrest due to my investigation).
Since this time, he’s become the most rude, negative person I know. He has no problem being rude to my grandkids, my daughter or anyone… including me. I’m nervous about him being with me to meet people because of how rude he is.
I’m trying to do what I should, trying to live the Catholic life and not sin and everything, but no matter what I do, it’s never enough. Before I went to church, I had printed out divorce papers because it’s so bad, but now, I’m trying to make my marriage work… but nothing seems to work at all. I pray everyday for him and the rest of my family.
Yesterday I even tried sending him an “I love you” ecard… .I did this about 2 hours before he got home for lunch then I went to mass. When I got back, I stopped to get the mail and he made this big scene because he had to take his truck to work instead of my car, and of course, was rude. It’s almost like the ecard made no difference at all.
I forgot to mention too, that he’s cheated on me 3 times… once early on in our marriage (he went to counseling for this)… then last April (with the same person as the first time), and again in Aug (with a co-worker).
He also has a hard time holding down a job, and went for over a year just playing games on the computer (not even looking for a job). He seems lately like he’s trying to get fired from his job now too… like today he was really late, didn’t even call in or anything, and on Thanksgiving, he just walked out of work saying he didn’t want to be there.
I’m at a loss on what to do, or if I should even try anymore.
Hopefully I’ve given you guys enough background to give me some opinions, if not, I’m pretty open, so I’ll try to answer any additional questions.

This guy sounds like a total loser. You need to lay down the law. Stop allowing yourself to be treated like a doormat or you will be treated this way for the rest of your life. If he doesn’t want to be a husband you really should let him walk. His behavior has got to change… but only a change of heart can make this happen. I would also on a blood test for sexually transmitted disease… immediately! Honestly, I see zero hope for this guy making a turn-around. But God can work miracles. My gut feeling is that this guy needs to be kicked to the curb!

 

[Rachel_1]

Did any of the investigation fallout affect him? Was he followed? Were threats made against him?

No, nothing against him, just me. The only thing that affected him was that we had guys peeking in our window in the living room/kitchen area, and my daughter bedroom. He didn’t see any of this, and the police took care of it.

His reaction would be understandable, I don’t mean to make you feel bad, but when you made the decision to pursue the investigation you made it for the both of you and as I understand it he wasn’t okay with it.

Before I started the investigation we had a talk and I asked him if he was ok with it… he said he was. I didn’t approach him and say “I’m going to do this” we actually talked about it, and he seemed fine with it, and seemed supportive for about the first month.

If I was with someone who did something that put me in danger, and created that kind of stress in my life I would carry massive resentment against that person. Frankly I would not have stayed with a person who put me in danger.

Maybe you owe him a huge apology for bringing the mafia into your life when he didn’t want you to go that route. Though I don’t know if an apology can ever be enough.

None of this justifies his affairs of course.

Maybe that’s what it is, resentment. I’ve asked him several times if he wants to leave (not in a mean way) because I saw over a year ago that he was acting like this because of the investigation. I tried gently talking with him, and expressing myself in a loving way to try to understand what’s going on in his head. None of it worked.
Honestly, he knew going into this that there were dangers involved (obviously), he said in the beginning that I should do this, it was a joint decision between both of us. I wouldn’t just go “bring the mafia into his life” like that.

 

[Rachel_1]

This guy sounds like a total loser. You need to lay down the law. Stop allowing yourself to be treated like a doormat or you will be treated this way for the rest of your life. If he doesn’t want to be a husband you really should let him walk. His behavior has got to change… but only a change of heart can make this happen. I would also on a blood test for sexually transmitted disease… immediately! Honestly, I see zero hope for this guy making a turn-around. But God can work miracles. My gut feeling is that this guy needs to be kicked to the curb!

First off, I don’t allow myself to be treated like a doormat. I think that if I did, there would be more peace in the house, but I would also have low self esteem and be bummed all the time. I’ve been there before with my ex, I won’t do it again. As I said, emotionally, I’m a strong person, I have my self esteem, I know my goals and my dreams, and he (at first) wanted to be a part of them. We made joint decisions about this before things turned south. Now it’s almost like we are just roommates because he’s so negative all the time.
I guess my emotional response to his rudeness and negativity is to just be silent… you know what you’re mom always said “if you don’t have something nice to say, don’t say anything at all”.
As far as ‘kicking him to the curb’, this is my concern- Matt. 19:6

 

[GracedUpon]

As far as ‘kicking him to the curb’, this is my concern- Matt. 19:6

This would be a true concern if you were in a valid marriage with your husband in the eyes of God. However, since you are currently awaiting an annulment from a prior marriage, I am quite certain that your current civil marriage is not a marriage in the eyes of the Church. Therefore, you are still two separate flesh, which God has never joined together in the first place. I don’t mean to be judgmental, although this may come across as so, but I want to make sure that you understand that any scripture relating to marriage does not apply to your situation as you are not married, according to scripture. In fact, as your previous marriage has not yet been declared null, Verse 9 of that same chapter tells you that your current marriage is considered adulterous. Those are Jesus’ words, quoted directly in the Bible. I say this not in judgment, but in love. I want you to understand that you don’t need to stay with this man if you feel it is in your best interest to leave, and you are not held to him by God or the Bible or any other Catholic resource. I also want to point out, for the sake of your souls, that as you are in an invalid marriage, you should live as brother and sister, as any relations between you could be mortally sinful. I will leave that discussion for your priest, however. Make sure that the priest you see is a good, orthodox priest, as there are many out there who are wishy-washy on sexual ethics.

I will pray for the both of you, to discern God’s will for both of your lives. God bless you and your family.

 

[Rachel_1]

This would be a true concern if you were in a valid marriage with your husband in the eyes of God. However, since you are currently awaiting an annulment from a prior marriage, I am quite certain that your current civil marriage is not a marriage in the eyes of the Church. Therefore, you are still two separate flesh, which God has never joined together in the first place. I don’t mean to be judgmental, although this may come across as so, but I want to make sure that you understand that any scripture relating to marriage does not apply to your situation as you are not married, according to scripture. In fact, as your previous marriage has not yet been declared null, Verse 9 of that same chapter tells you that your current marriage is considered adulterous. Those are Jesus’ words, quoted directly in the Bible. I say this not in judgment, but in love. I want you to understand that you don’t need to stay with this man if you feel it is in your best interest to leave, and you are not held to him by God or the Bible or any other Catholic resource. I also want to point out, for the sake of your souls, that as you are in an invalid marriage, you should live as brother and sister, as any relations between you could be mortally sinful. I will leave that discussion for your priest, however. Make sure that the priest you see is a good, orthodox priest, as there are many out there who are wishy-washy on sexual ethics.

I will pray for the both of you, to discern God’s will for both of your lives. God bless you and your family.

Well, generally I’d agree. However in order to understand my circumstance in regard to what marriage is valid etc let me try to explain.

**Husband #1 **
married in 1983
divorced 1989
passed away 2003
Husband #2 (the one I’m getting the annulment for)
married 1994
divorced 1996
Husband #3
married 1998
divorced 2001
passed away 2005
Husband #4 (current husband)
married 2005

Ok, so taking into account that I was married to husband #1, and the marriage was valid until he passed away in 2003, then husband #'s 2 and 3 were actually invalid, making my current husband #4 valid because we were married in 2005.
As far as the annulment for husband #2, it will be granted easily on multiple grounds. #1, I was baptized Catholic as a baby even though I wasn’t raised Catholic, which I could easily use lack of form.
I can also use all of the following:
Insufficient use of reason (Canon 1095, 10)
Grave lack of discretionary judgment concerning essential matrimonial rights and duties (Canon 1095, 20)
Ignorance about the nature of marriage (Canon 1096, sec. 1)
Error about a quality of a person (Canon 1097, sec. 2)
Fraud (Canon 1098)
Willful exclusion of marital fidelity (Canon 1101, 12)
Willful exclusion of marital permanence (Canon 1101, sec. 2)
Past condition (Canon 1102, sec. 2)
Present condition (Canon 1102, sec. 2)
Force (Canon 1103)
Fear (1103)
Error regarding marital unity that determined the will (1099)
Error regarding marital indissolubility that determined the will (Canon 1099)
Error regarding marital sacramental dignity that determined the will (Canon 1099)

The annulment itself I’m not worried about other than the hassle of the paperwork and hoping that my ex doesn’t come looking for me (he was quite abusive).
As far as living with my current husband as brother/sister, we don’t even talk hardly, so I guess you can see where we are as far as relations go lol

 

[purplesunshine]

No, nothing against him, just me. The only thing that affected him was that we had guys peeking in our window in the living room/kitchen area, and my daughter bedroom. He didn’t see any of this, and the police took care of it.

Ok.

sigh
The mafia didn’t bother your husband??? What? What kind of mafia were you invloved with? The care bears mafia? They don’t go after just you but also the people you love and the people THEY love. They mess with people’s minds & egos. One of my good friends was on a fedral grand joury and he tells me how people often don’t know just how far the harrassment and threats went. So very likely someone DID say or do something to your husband. Especally if it caused a major shift in his behavior. People don’t have severe behavoral changes over minor things.

 

[kage_ar]

From what you have stated here, both marriages to living men are invalid due to lack of form. You will not need a full blown investigation of validity by the tribunal.

Your RCIA director will assist you in getting that paperwork done.

The fact then is that you are living with a man who is not your husband.

You have 3 choices:

Separate from him.

Live together as brother and sister.

Marry him - officially, in the Church.