VERY sad and telling quote from Martin Luther...

[total_Catholic]

…as he begin to see the effects of his revolt against the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

“Every thing is reversed, the world grows every day the worse for this teaching; and the misery of it is, that men are nowadays more covetous, more hard-hearted, more corrupt, more licentious, and more wicked, than of old under the Papacy… Our evangels are now sevenfold more wicked than they were before. In proportion as we hear the gospel, we steal, lie, cheat, gorge, swill, and commit every crime. If one devil has been driven out of us, seven worse ones have taken their place, to judge from the conduct of princes, lords, nobles, burgesses, and peasants, their utterly shameless acts, and their disregard of God and of his menaces… Under the Papacy, men were charitable and gave freely; but now, under the gospel all almsgiving is at an end, everyone fleeces his neighbor, and each seeks to have all for himself. And the longer the gospel is preached, the deeper do men sink in avarice, pride, and ostention.” - Martin Luther

Lutherans, we love you. Come home.

You can read more: catholicism.org/the-devastation-of-catholic-europe-some-causes-and-consequences-of-the-protestant-revolt.html

 

[FollowChrist34]

…as he begin to see the effects of his revolt against the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

“Every thing is reversed, the world grows every day the worse for this teaching; and the misery of it is, that men are nowadays more covetous, more hard-hearted, more corrupt, more licentious, and more wicked, than of old under the Papacy… Our evangels are now sevenfold more wicked than they were before. In proportion as we hear the gospel, we steal, lie, cheat, gorge, swill, and commit every crime. If one devil has been driven out of us, seven worse ones have taken their place, to judge from the conduct of princes, lords, nobles, burgesses, and peasants, their utterly shameless acts, and their disregard of God and of his menaces… Under the Papacy, men were charitable and gave freely; but now, under the gospel all almsgiving is at an end, everyone fleeces his neighbor, and each seeks to have all for himself. And the longer the gospel is preached, the deeper do men sink in avarice, pride, and ostention.” - Martin Luther

Lutherans, we love you. Come home.

You can read more: catholicism.org/the-devastation-of-catholic-europe-some-causes-and-consequences-of-the-protestant-revolt.html

Yes, this is a great quote. Thanks for posting it. Sometimes I think the fire-breathing anti-Catholic stuff from the early days of the split really steals the spotlight. The later texts against the ‘fanatics’ are just as intense and thought-provoking. Luther can also inspire with the very best of them. A truly great, complex man and a great Christian - if a little hot-tempered. I’ll let someone more perfect than myself throw the first stone.

 

[spedteacherita]

…as he begin to see the effects of his revolt against the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

“Every thing is reversed, the world grows every day the worse for this teaching; and the misery of it is, that men are nowadays more covetous, more hard-hearted, more corrupt, more licentious, and more wicked, than of old under the Papacy… Our evangels are now sevenfold more wicked than they were before. In proportion as we hear the gospel, we steal, lie, cheat, gorge, swill, and commit every crime. If one devil has been driven out of us, seven worse ones have taken their place, to judge from the conduct of princes, lords, nobles, burgesses, and peasants, their utterly shameless acts, and their disregard of God and of his menaces… Under the Papacy, men were charitable and gave freely; but now, under the gospel all almsgiving is at an end, everyone fleeces his neighbor, and each seeks to have all for himself. And the longer the gospel is preached, the deeper do men sink in avarice, pride, and ostention.” - Martin Luther

Lutherans, we love you. Come home.

You can read more: catholicism.org/the-devastation-of-catholic-europe-some-causes-and-consequences-of-the-protestant-revolt.html

 

[spedteacherita]

…as he begin to see the effects of his revolt against the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

“Every thing is reversed, the world grows every day the worse for this teaching; and the misery of it is, that men are nowadays more covetous, more hard-hearted, more corrupt, more licentious, and more wicked, than of old under the Papacy… Our evangels are now sevenfold more wicked than they were before. In proportion as we hear the gospel, we steal, lie, cheat, gorge, swill, and commit every crime. If one devil has been driven out of us, seven worse ones have taken their place, to judge from the conduct of princes, lords, nobles, burgesses, and peasants, their utterly shameless acts, and their disregard of God and of his menaces… Under the Papacy, men were charitable and gave freely; but now, under the gospel all almsgiving is at an end, everyone fleeces his neighbor, and each seeks to have all for himself. And the longer the gospel is preached, the deeper do men sink in avarice, pride, and ostention.” - Martin Luther

Whoops!! I pressed the Reply button too soon and then didn’t respond in the 20 minute time element so here goes with what I was going to post:

It’s quite ironic that you should post this today as I was just listening to a Pastor Todd Wilken on YouTube and he spoke to Luther’s disappointment with the Lutheran clergy in his later years of life. According to Pastor Wilken there was chaos happening due to the fact that many of the clergy were not preaching the gospel. (The YouTube title is Pastor Todd Wilken - Despite what you’ve heard, the LCMS…) With Christ’s guidance we are not the church that Luther was talking about at that time…

I think if you look right now at our Lutheran Synods (LCMS and WELS) you will not see what were the birth pains of the Reformed theology.
Do you think that Catholicism is still the same as it was at the time of Luther?

My home will remain in the Lutheran Church, thanks, though…

God bless!

Rita

 

[josephback]

…as he begin to see the effects of his revolt against the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.

“Every thing is reversed, the world grows every day the worse for this teaching; and the misery of it is, that men are nowadays more covetous, more hard-hearted, more corrupt, more licentious, and more wicked, than of old under the Papacy… Our evangels are now sevenfold more wicked than they were before. In proportion as we hear the gospel, we steal, lie, cheat, gorge, swill, and commit every crime. If one devil has been driven out of us, seven worse ones have taken their place, to judge from the conduct of princes, lords, nobles, burgesses, and peasants, their utterly shameless acts, and their disregard of God and of his menaces… Under the Papacy, men were charitable and gave freely; but now, under the gospel all almsgiving is at an end, everyone fleeces his neighbor, and each seeks to have all for himself. And the longer the gospel is preached, the deeper do men sink in avarice, pride, and ostention.” - Martin Luther

Lutherans, we love you. Come home.

You can read more: catholicism.org/the-devastation-of-catholic-europe-some-causes-and-consequences-of-the-protestant-revolt.html

Human nature is that if you tell somebody that it isn’t necessary to do something to pass the test, most won’t or will put less emphasis on it.

 

[total_Catholic]

drbo.org/churchenemies.htm

 

[Regina7]

drbo.org/churchenemies.htm

:clapping:

 

[eazyduzit]

By the late 17th c. England had become a lawless and unruly place. John Wesley turned that around by taking the gospel outside the church building where it was trapped by the official church and preached on the streets to the commom folks, beggars and the lawless. England was revived by the gospel.

 

[eazyduzit]

By the late 17th c. England had become a lawless and unruly place. John Wesley turned that around by taking the gospel outside the church building where it was trapped by the official church and preached on the streets to the commom folks, beggars and the lawless. England was revived by the gospel.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

And look what has happened to Wesley’s Methodist church.

 

[Memaw]

Yes, this is a great quote. Thanks for posting it. Sometimes I think the fire-breathing anti-Catholic stuff from the early days of the split really steals the spotlight. The later texts against the ‘fanatics’ are just as intense and thought-provoking. Luther can also inspire with the very best of them. A truly great, complex man and a great Christian - if a little hot-tempered. I’ll let someone more perfect than myself throw the first stone.

I don’t think anyone wants to “throw stones” but I truly think it’s time we face the truth about the whole Reformation and it’s devastating consequences and do all we can to help bring our ‘separated brothern’ back to the fold of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. Let’s start with sincere prayer!! God Bless, Memaw

 

[total_Catholic]

By the late 17th c. England had become a lawless and unruly place. John Wesley turned that around by taking the gospel outside the church building where it was trapped by the official church and preached on the streets to the commom folks, beggars and the lawless. England was revived by the gospel.

Origins of Wesley and his “Methodism” which spawned more splinter groups.
newadvent.org/cathen/10237b.htm

 

[FollowChrist34]

Do you think that Catholicism is still the same as it was at the time of Luther?
Rita

No, it is not, thank goodness, which is not to say we’ve escaped various forms of corruption, scandals and internal scuffles since that time, as we all know well. Nor have the Lutherans been free from flaws and failings, of course.

Christians are rare people on earth.
Martin Luther

I, for one, am very thankful that members of the LCMS and Catholic Church are as engaged in friendly, Christian discourse as we are.

God bless.

 

[JonNC]

drbo.org/churchenemies.htm

Perhaps the most concise article of polemic nonsense I’ve read in a very long time.

Jon

 

[TertiumQuid]

You can read more: catholicism.org/the-devastation-of-catholic-europe-some-causes-and-consequences-of-the-protestant-revolt.html

So I read more to see the reference as to where Luther said this. The link goes over to the article, Some Causes and Consequences of the Protestant Revolt by Br. David Mary, M.I.C.M., Tert.

The source cited by Br, David Mary appears to be Döllinger’s History of the Protestant Revolt , Vol. I, p. 260. I was not familiar with Johann Joseph Ignaz von Döllinger having written such a volume. What’s usually cited by is Döllinger’s A History of the Church series. Thinking that this was the source meant, I checked vol. 1 p. 260, but the quote was not there. A quick Google search though did come upon The History of the Protestant Reformation Vol. 1 by M.J. Spalding. Page 260 has the quote being cited.

A surface reading of Br, David Mary’s documentation appears he got the author wrong, but it’s more likely his was a poorly worded footnote. He did though get the title of the book wrong, changing “Reformation” to “Revolt.” The author of the book being cited (M.J. Spalding) admits he didn’t get the quotes from Luther, but rather took the information from the Dublin Review for September, 1848. The Dublin review took the quotes from Döllinger. It appears there are at least three different quotes being put together to form the paragraph as it’s being cited.

This might sound like nitpicking, but those were the hoops I had to jump through to see where Luther said what he is purported to have said.

Luther wasn’t postmillennial. While he was discouraged that the world seemed to be getting worse, his eschatological expectation can be traced back even to the early days of his Reformation work. For Luther, it was the end of the world. Things were indeed going to get worse. For him, he felt the Gospel was going to be fought against by the Devil with all his might. The true church was a tiny flock in a battle against the world, the flesh, and the Devil. He hoped the people would improve with the preaching of the Gospel, he often admitted he knew things were going to get worse because of the Gospel.

One of the recent volumes of Luther’s works addresses this very issue (LW 58:xx-xxii). It is well worth tracking down. They say in part,

“The Reformation, as Luther understands it at the end of his life, is neither an accomplished event nor a step along the progressive way to the full purification of the Church, but it is a continual struggle, carried out through the preaching of the Law and the Gospel, to be renewed from generation to generation until the Last Day.”

 

[Son_of_Niall]

By the late 17th c. England had become a lawless and unruly place. John Wesley turned that around by taking the gospel outside the church building where it was trapped by the official church and preached on the streets to the commom folks, beggars and the lawless. England was revived by the gospel.

You were there?
Wesley is one of the few Protestant leaders who had a very Catholic view, but you are exaggerating the situation.

 

[benjohnson]

drbo.org/churchenemies.htm

What am I reading?