Very Troubled...

[Chris258]

Hello everyone.

I would like your advice on what course I should take regarding something I heard from a friend recently.

He has been teaching at a Catholic school, and in order to continue, it is required that he convert to Catholicism. The problem is that he really has no intention to accept the authority of the Church or Her doctrines. He says he simply is going to become Catholic ‘on paper’.

Now I am seriously confused by this. First of all, when preparing for Confirmation, is the candidate not required to profess a faith which is decidedly “Catholic” (I thought so until recently)? Perhaps a verbal acknowledgment of the Church’s authority? If a candidate is required to do so, I would like to know exactly where I may read this profession of faith, because I am not sure if he intends to proclaim a bold-faced lie right in front of everyone or if he is simply unaware of details of the process.

Now if there is no such profession of faith that is decidedly Catholic (i.e. a non-Catholic could say the profession but twist it in his/her mind to mean what he/she wants it to), then I would like advice on what I could do to stop this nonsense. I understand that a baptized Catholic might become a “cafeteria Catholic” or simply fall away from their faith altogether, but I’ve never thought it feasible that a Protestant could become a Catholic “on paper” like the former examples. I have not spoken with the administration that he’s dealing with, but I can’t understand how he could do this right under their noses without either his blatant lying or their blatant and intentional oversight.

He claims that he’s “a Jesus follower first and foremost” but I don’t think he realizes what he’s getting into. I’m preparing for the coming months in order to receive Confirmation myself next Easter, so this is especially troubling for me. So far I can only hope that God uses this to somehow open his eyes to Christ’s Church.

Thank you for your help.

 

[allhers]

That whole thing sounds messed up to me, I’d tell the Pastor of the Church and let him handle it.

 

[puzzleannie]

If someone is teaching in a Catholic school where the parish or diocese has a policy that all teachers must be Catholic, then that policy must be followed. If he is not Catholic, and does not want to be, he should change jobs, not change religions, unless he has indeed undergone a conversion of mind and heart. someone who becomes Catholic “on paper” with no intention of accepting, believing or acting upon what the Church teaches is IMO a worse prospect for a Catholic school teacher than an honest non-Catholic.

 

[Chris258]

Thanks both of you. Pretty level-headed advice.

Do you happen to know about my first question concerning the nature of a candidate’s profession of faith? If it is blatantly Catholic, the chances are much greater than he’ll reconsider what he plans to do.

Hopefully I can convince him to change his outlook on this, including whether or not he should be working there. I’d like to go that route before contacting the administrators or the pastor directly.

 

[Phemie]

Thanks both of you. Pretty level-headed advice.

Do you happen to know about my first question concerning the nature of a candidate’s profession of faith? If it is blatantly Catholic, the chances are much greater than he’ll reconsider what he plans to do.

Hopefully I can convince him to change his outlook on this, including whether or not he should be working there. I’d like to go that route before contacting the administrators or the pastor directly.

As far as I can remember they have to recite the Creed. The Apostles Creed is pretty standard for several different denominations.

 

[Chris258]

As far as I can remember they have to recite the Creed. The Apostles Creed is pretty standard for several different denominations.

That’s not too encouraging. Seems I may have to convince him simply on the principle of the thing.

 

[Ruthie]

Even though it was only 2.5 years ago, I don’t remember exactly what I said at my Confirmation…

It sounds like he just thinks he will have to sign a paper or something. He will either have to attend RCIA or do one-on-one counseling/training with a priest.

I would be tempted to tell either the RCIA director or the priest to make sure he is serious about his conversion.

I would also pray for his true conversion… I just did.

Ruthie

 

[puzzleannie]

when he is confirmed he is required to profess the Faith as it is expressed in the Apostles Creed either by reciting it, or answering in the affirmative the priest’s questions. this is a solemn act and to lie is a grave offense against God and the Church. The period of preparation is precisely so that the candidate will understand the doctrine he will be professing.

 

[Chris258]

I would also pray for his true conversion… I just did.

Thank you. That has been my best hope for the situation.

puzzleannie:

when he is confirmed he is required to profess the Faith as it is expressed in the Apostles Creed either by reciting it, or answering in the affirmative the priest’s questions. this is a solemn act and to lie is a grave offense against God and the Church. The period of preparation is precisely so that the candidate will understand the doctrine he will be professing.

I agree with what you’re saying here, but the way he seems to be looking at it, he’ll simply be, for the most part, ignoring the Catholic theology being taught to him and simply continue in his own understanding of the creed in his heart.

Now if there is, at some point, an honest dialogue between him and a pastor about the meaning of the creed, then I can hope that his internal aversion to lying would be a help in setting things right.

 

[solayan]

When my best friend was received into the Church the phrase she was told to use was:
“I believe and profess all that the holy Catholic Church believes, teaches, and proclaims to be revealed by God.”

If I recall correctly she said it right after reciting the Creed.

I’ll keep you and your friend in my prayers and hope that he comes to true conversion of heart.

 

[crenfro]

but I don’t think he realizes what he’s getting into.

Congratulations on your progress towards 1st Holy Communion!!!

And in regard to your post, some thoughts came to mind…like… who really knows what they’re getting into, no one can really foresee all the consequences of their actions, and who knows…maybe this is a call from God that your friend may be responding to out of order…sort of like starting on a project backwards…but for some people backwards is better than not at all…and that God’s ways are not ours and that sometimes by the time we get into something, we get in awfully deep and then before we realize it, there we are and it isn’t so bad … or not… your friend may decide not to proceed…

Keep your friend in your prayers for a true conversion… you never know…

 

[SisterSnowflake]

In my fifteen or so years of being involved with RCIA, the profession of faith states (proclaimed publicly): “I believe and profess all that the Holy Catholic Church believes and professes”…doesn’t get any more explicitly Catholic than that!

 

[Lepanto]

As far as I can remember they have to recite the Creed. The Apostles Creed is pretty standard for several different denominations.

I think you are referring to the Nicene Creed.

The Catholic Church understands what is meant by the line “one, holy, catholic [sic], and apostolic church” much differently than do Protestant denominations.

 

[Contarini]

Some context:

Certain Protestant denominations require professors at their colleges or seminaries to join the denomination. For instance, one friend of mine teaches at a Baptist seminary and thus is technically a member of a Baptist church. No one has asked if he conforms in all things to Baptist theology, and in fact he and members of his family frequently attend an Episcopal church. These things are simply not taken as seriously within Protestantism (with some exceptions). My guess is that this is how your friend feels about it. And so you may have a chance to convince him that Catholicism is very different–that becoming Catholic “on paper” is like marrying a woman “on paper” while continuing to have sex with a different woman. It’s a profoundly dishonorable thing to do.

Whether you should inform someone else is a different matter. It would seem to me that ethically, since you have been told about this as his friend, you ought not to get him in trouble by talking to a third party, but ought rather to do your best to persuade him to do the right thing himself. But of course my opinions have no authority over you (unless you are convinced that they conform to natural law)!

Edwin

 

[Rawb]

“I believe and profess all that the holy Catholic Church believes, teaches, and proclaims to be revealed by God.”

I had to say this as well.

Is he going to have to go through RCIA? That’s the normal process now, and he may not know it takes a year of study to become Catholic. That might be enough to dissuade him from this plan.

 

[Chris258]

Whether you should inform someone else is a different matter. It would seem to me that ethically, since you have been told about this as his friend, you ought not to get him in trouble by talking to a third party, but ought rather to do your best to persuade him to do the right thing himself. But of course my opinions have no authority over you (unless you are convinced that they conform to natural law)!

I certainly agree with you. I’d only be alright with informing administration if he was absolutely stubborn in continuing this.

 

[belgianwaffles9]

I understand that a baptized Catholic might become a “cafeteria Catholic” or simply fall away from their faith altogether, but I’ve never thought it feasible that a Protestant could become a Catholic “on paper” like the former examples.

“Paris is worth a Mass”

Ten points for the first to get the reference

 

[Hlafdige]

“Paris is worth a Mass”

Ten points for the first to get the reference

Henri III, Protestant king of Navarre, who was next in line for the French throne when the French king was assassinated in 1589, but had to become Catholic in order to be crowned Henri IV of France.

 

[belgianwaffles9]

Henri III, Protestant king of Navarre, who was next in line for the French throne when the French king was assassinated in 1589, but had to become Catholic in order to be crowned Henri IV of France.

Ten points for you!

Anyways, it reminded me of what was being discussed, if on a very different scale.

Pretty good french movie about the whole thing, too, if i recall.