Very Uncomfortable Mass; Liturgical Abuse?

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LOL. People will justify anything! Jesuits use the Roman Rite. The description in the OP mentions many serious abuses not allowed in the Roman Rite.

You didn’t want any of this, so I don’t blame you. But this sounds awful. This is not approved “Jesuit liturgy.”.

This is exactly the kind of thing I would just have walked out of.
 
Minus the part about the Jesuit Seminarian giving the homily, that “Mass” is exactly the same as one of the first Novus Ordo’s I attended when coming back to the faith.

It’s the new springtime. We don’t need to think. Let’s just hold hands and hug.
 
Joannm said:
I have never heard that self-communicating is grave matter or even a matter of sin. How can receiving our Lord be sin? Yes, it is an illicit action but it is not sinful especially since the priest instigated the action. I was at a home mass two weeks ago where the same thing happened. I was extremely uncomfortable with it as well, but I still received our Lord and in no way felt I was at fault.
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Inaestimabile Donum
9. Eucharistic Communion. Communion is a gift of the Lord, given to the faithful through the minister appointed for this purpose. It is not permitted that the faithful should themselves pick up the consecrated bread and the sacred chalice, still less that they should hand them from one to another.
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These are instructions straight from the Vatican and approved and confirmed by the late Blessed John Paul II. To break these rules would constitute grave matter.

Given the fact that the priest instigated the self-communication, most likely it would be the priest that’s in trouble and not the reader.
 
newyorkcatholic said:
LOL. People will justify anything! Jesuits use the Roman Rite. The description in the OP mentions many serious abuses not allowed in the Roman Rite.

You didn’t want any of this, so I don’t blame you. But this sounds awful. This is not approved “Jesuit liturgy.”.

This is exactly the kind of thing I would just have walked out of.
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And some people, including myself unfortunately, are quick to blame about everything. Often there are reasons we would never expect. And even when they are to blame we are often guilty of something much worse such as a sin against charity. Sometimes we have to ask someone to remove the plank from our eyes before we can remove the splinter from theirs.

You are right that the poster should not blame themselves. Neither is it good to walk out in the middle of the liturgy. The correct response is to ask politely to have someone distribute Holy Communion to you. The fact that the poster felt uncomfortable doing so is understandable.

I see no reason to contact the priest’s superiors. Rather, the poster should mention to the priest directly how uncomfortable they were; in a polite manner of course. Whether or not the priest was correct, the poster and the priest might learn something.
 
Tony_the_mad said:
And some people, including myself unfortunately, are quick to blame about everything. Often there are reasons we would never expect. And even when they are to blame we are often guilty of something much worse such as a sin against charity. Sometimes we have to ask someone to remove the plank from our eyes before we can remove the splinter from theirs.

You are right that the poster should not blame themselves. Neither is it good to walk out in the middle of the liturgy. The correct response is to ask politely to have someone distribute Holy Communion to you. The fact that the poster felt uncomfortable doing so is understandable.

I see no reason to contact the priest’s superiors. Rather, the poster should mention to the priest directly how uncomfortable they were; in a polite manner of course. Whether or not the priest was correct, the poster and the priest might learn something.
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Well said.
 
Does not at all look like anything licit happened. Probably mostly invalid.
 
Tony_the_mad said:
And some people, including myself unfortunately, are quick to blame about everything. Often there are reasons we would never expect. And even when they are to blame we are often guilty of something much worse such as a sin against charity. Sometimes we have to ask someone to remove the plank from our eyes before we can remove the splinter from theirs.

You are right that the poster should not blame themselves. Neither is it good to walk out in the middle of the liturgy. The correct response is to ask politely to have someone distribute Holy Communion to you. The fact that the poster felt uncomfortable doing so is understandable.

I see no reason to contact the priest’s superiors. Rather, the poster should mention to the priest directly how uncomfortable they were; in a polite manner of course. Whether or not the priest was correct, the poster and the priest might learn something.
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Good advice.
 
Is that considered Liturgical abuse in the Roman Catholic Church then?

I am genuinely asking rather than getting lots of things and people on the wrong foot with me because I have participated in communion elsewhere, where indeed we have passed it down the line. I was taught this in school once by a teacher who was born again in RE and I have no idea whether the Headteacher knew anything what was happening since we were a state school and not a church school of any kind. Though at the time I did not understand what born again meant either 😛
Initially like the opening poster, I was uncomfortable because not done it before at that time. But these days I would be okay. Though in my own church I receive the host on the tongue and I don’t even touch the chalice to balance it etc as many do or take the chalice off the lay chalice bearer etc.
In an RC setting its abuse as of the other posters, but not everywhere. Life gets complicated doesn’t it. I kind of which it was all plain sailing with Christianity but it goes to show how wide the spectrum goes.
 
Before you write to bishops and superiors, I think it would be best to write to the priest (or to the director of that particular Jesuit house) to ask for some clarification or explanation on the issues that surprised you.
 
Tony_the_mad said:
And some people, including myself unfortunately, are quick to blame about everything. Often there are reasons we would never expect. And even when they are to blame we are often guilty of something much worse such as a sin against charity. Sometimes we have to ask someone to remove the plank from our eyes before we can remove the splinter from theirs.

You are right that the poster should not blame themselves. Neither is it good to walk out in the middle of the liturgy. The correct response is to ask politely to have someone distribute Holy Communion to you. The fact that the poster felt uncomfortable doing so is understandable.

I see no reason to contact the priest’s superiors. Rather, the poster should mention to the priest directly how uncomfortable they were; in a polite manner of course. Whether or not the priest was correct, the poster and the priest might learn something.
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Excellent. Thank you.
 
GIRM #160:
  1. The priest then takes the paten or ciborium and goes to the communicants, who, as a rule, approach in a procession.
The faithful are not permitted to take the consecrated bread or the sacred chalice by themselves and, still less, to hand them from one to another. The norm for reception of Holy Communion in the dioceses of the United States is standing. Communicants should not be denied Holy Communion because they kneel. Rather, such instances should be addressed pastorally, by providing the faithful with proper catechesis on the reasons for this norm.

When receiving Holy Communion, the communicant bows his or her head before the Sacrament as a gesture of reverence and receives the Body of the Lord from the minister. The consecrated host may be received either on the tongue or in the hand, at the discretion of each communicant. When Holy Communion is received under both kinds, the sign of reverence is also made before receiving the Precious Blood.

As you can see, the Mass you attended was illicit. Illicit means it was against the rubrics. It was not invalid, which would mean there was no consecration of the Eucharist.

As someone else posted, you are probably guilty of at most a venial sin because you felt pressure to conform. This is not something you wanted to do. But I agree, you should report this.
 
Report it to who?

The Jesuits charism is evangelization, missionary work, education, not liturgy. they work by inculturation. Wherever they work they dress, live and eat as the local people. Their job is not to present the Roman point of view, but to work with the people where they are at.

The Jesuits are answerable directly to the Pope.

They are the Vatican’s Storm Troopers.

They are different from other orders. The way they live, pray and work are different.

If I was the OP I would just feel privileged to be invited to the Supper of the Lord with them in their house.
 
Actually, the priests there were wearing civilian clothing. The celebrating priest simply wore a very colorful stole while celebrating mass, and I do admit he was very friendly during and outside of Mass.

But seeing as they are answerable directly to the Pope, then it would follow they are to follow the Canon Laws and the parts of the GRIM that were linked here by the other posters, as the Jesuits are an order of the Latin Rite, correct? I know they are different from other orders, but even they should not be able to disregard the norms that were approved by the Holy Father. If the way they pray is different, are there any sources I could see that would explain how they could possibly ignore or change some of these rules posted previously in this topic?

Again, thank you to all for the provided links, information, and comforting words. It’s much appreciated.
 
This sounds like a Conventual Mass… you really, really should talk with the good Jesuit first and not panic.

As to the known facts, it sounds like it was licit and valid mass.

You did know it was a Jesuit??? :D:D:D
 
billy15 said:
Actually, the priests there were wearing civilian clothing. The celebrating priest simply wore a very colorful stole while celebrating mass, and I do admit he was very friendly during and outside of Mass.

But seeing as they are answerable directly to the Pope, then it would follow they are to follow the Canon Laws and the parts of the GRIM that were linked here by the other posters, as the Jesuits are an order of the Latin Rite, correct? I know they are different from other orders, but even they should not be able to disregard the norms that were approved by the Holy Father. If the way they pray is different, are there any sources I could see that would explain how they could possibly ignore or change some of these rules posted previously in this topic?

Again, thank you to all for the provided links, information, and comforting words. It’s much appreciated.
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The good Jesuits are exempt from most of Canon law and in their own houses are not bound or governed by the GIRM — they would default to the norms for Jesuits.
 
japhy said:
Before you write to bishops and superiors, I think it would be best to write to the priest (or to the director of that particular Jesuit house) to ask for some clarification or explanation on the issues that surprised you.
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Along with Japhy’s advice, in the letter (since this priest is a Jesuit), ask if the Jesuits have any indults or instructions from the Vatican allowing changes in the Instructions.
 
Kevin812 said:
The good Jesuits are exempt from most of Canon law and in their own houses are not bound or governed by the GIRM — they would default to the norms for Jesuits.
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Is that so? I find it hard to believe that they’re exempt from most of canon law, even if they act like it.

The jesuits have been known for being disobedient from the rubrics.
 
billy15 said:
This past Friday evening, I had attended a small mass at a Jesuit home. About 10 people were present, and the chapel itself was extremely small. All ten people sat around the “altar” and priest, which was very tiny table. I was first off uncomfortable when a Jesuit seminarian read the Gospel, and gave the homily. There was no visible blessing by the priest, so I wonder if that was allowed…
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Are you sure that the seminarian was not a deacon?
 
Well, for starters, DO NOT contact the local Bishop. It’ll be an exercise in frustration, as the Jesuits are exempt religious. What happens in their home is outside the reach of a diocesan Bishop.

I second the suggestion of talking to the Priest first, expressing your concerns. No need to jump up the chain of command right away. For all we know the Seminarian was a Deacon.

Finally; did you all know a Jesuit was on Vox Clara? That’s right, a Jesuit helped bring in the new Mass translations. Just wanted to share this quality example of a Jesuit doing something good, because apparently several folks around here think they’re all liberals or heterodox.
 
triumphguy said:
Report it to who?

The Jesuits charism is evangelization, missionary work, education, not liturgy. they work by inculturation. Wherever they work they dress, live and eat as the local people. Their job is not to present the Roman point of view, but to work with the people where they are at.

The Jesuits are answerable directly to the Pope.

They are the Vatican’s Storm Troopers.

They are different from other orders. The way they live, pray and work are different.

If I was the OP I would just feel privileged to be invited to the Supper of the Lord with them in their house.
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👍👍
 
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