Vestments for the Masses during the papal visit

[BonnieBj]

Does the Holy Father bring all his own vestments when he travels or do the churches he visits provide them? And what about all the bishops and other clergy - do they use their own or ones owned by the “hosting” church? I ask because at the Mass at St. Patrick’s it seemed like the miter the Pope was wearing was too big; it came down right to his eyebrows and almost looked like his eyebrows were keeping it from falling further down. It also just looked too big for his head. The other clergy’s miters seemed to fit them all OK, only the Holy Father’s seemed ill-fitting.

 

[benedictgal]

Does the Holy Father bring all his own vestments when he travels or do the churches he visits provide them? And what about all the bishops and other clergy - do they use their own or ones owned by the “hosting” church? I ask because at the Mass at St. Patrick’s it seemed like the miter the Pope was wearing was too big; it came down right to his eyebrows and almost looked like his eyebrows were keeping it from falling further down. It also just looked too big for his head. The other clergy’s miters seemed to fit them all OK, only the Holy Father’s seemed ill-fitting.

Sometimes he’ll travel with his own. If you notice, the necklines for most of his vestments are round and wide. He will also wear some with a squar neckline. This is his style. He is also bringing back the much older traditional vestments. Now, the cope he was wearing for the vespers with the Bishops belongs to the National Shrine and was worn 90 years ago.

The mitre did look a little odd; however, maybe he was doing them the honor of wearing it at St. Patrick’s. It, too, might also be something very old. One way to tell if the mitre is his own is if you see his Papal coat of arms enbroidered in the huge tassel-like ribbons that dangle from his mitre. If they are carrying his Papal coat of arms, then, they belong to Benedict. He might also have some dating back to his days as Cardinal Ratzinger.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Does the Holy Father bring all his own vestments when he travels or do the churches he visits provide them? And what about all the bishops and other clergy - do they use their own or ones owned by the “hosting” church? I ask because at the Mass at St. Patrick’s it seemed like the miter the Pope was wearing was too big; it came down right to his eyebrows and almost looked like his eyebrows were keeping it from falling further down. It also just looked too big for his head. The other clergy’s miters seemed to fit them all OK, only the Holy Father’s seemed ill-fitting.

The vestments are supplied by a company, so that they are all corordinated. Each Deacon, Priest, Bishop buys his own (or his church diocese) I would suppose that the visiting Cardinals and the Pope are supplied by the hosting diocese.

 

[harinkj]

I ask because at the Mass at St. Patrick’s it seemed like the miter the Pope was wearing was too big; it came down right to his eyebrows and almost looked like his eyebrows were keeping it from falling further down.

I read someplace recently that pope Benedict XVI prefers vestments which had designs that are more conservative, i.e. of an earlier era. One thing mentioned was that he preferred a larger mitre that was more common pre-Vatican II, I think.

Ah, here is the item that I read, but you’ll have to wade through the writer’s nonsense:

washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/16/AR2008041603632.html

For those paying attention to Vatican couture, Benedict has been causing a buzz since he came into office by reviving the more ornate clergy styles that go back in some cases to the 15th and 16th centuries. Taller hats (or mitres). Red velvet capes (or mozzettas). Heavily embroidered smocks (or chasubles).

Here is an article about 10 years ago on Pope John Paul II’s vestments:

query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9504E6DE1E3CF930A25757C0A961958260&scp=6&sq=pope+vestments&st=nyt

• kathie :bowdown:

 

[stanthonyserver]

Most of the vestments and supplies used at the Masses was supplied by Patrick Baker and Sons of Connecticut.

(Not the Pope’s I believe)

Here’s a link to a short news report

connpost.com/localnews/ci_8965800

Yours,
David

 

[benedictgal]

Most of the vestments and supplies used at the Masses was supplied by Patrick Baker and Sons of Connecticut.

(Not the Pope’s I believe)

Here’s a link to a short news report

connpost.com/localnews/ci_8965800

Yours,
David

Although, there is a distinctive Benedictine mark to them. John Paul’s were somewhat mod (and duplicates were hawked by various vestment vendors–I know, my PV got hooked into buying some really bad looking ones). The Benedictine mark is either the larger, rounder, more banded collar (which he wore for the three Masses he celebrated here) or the square-collar, which he has worn for Pentecost Sunday.

 

[Spiller]

Does the Holy Father bring all his own vestments when he travels or do the churches he visits provide them? And what about all the bishops and other clergy - do they use their own or ones owned by the “hosting” church? I ask because at the Mass at St. Patrick’s it seemed like the miter the Pope was wearing was too big; it came down right to his eyebrows and almost looked like his eyebrows were keeping it from falling further down. It also just looked too big for his head. The other clergy’s miters seemed to fit them all OK, only the Holy Father’s seemed ill-fitting.

Some of the pope’s vestments were quite special – they mentioned the cope he wore at the National Shrine was the same one worn by the bishop who originally consecrated the Shrine many years ago.

The pope does travel with his own vestments, although I am sure if he is presented with vestments locally, he sometimes decides to wear what’s given.

The “poor fit” you allude to is often a product of the material. There is a great deal of real gold thread in the pope’s vestments and it doesn’t always tend to drape well – the aforementioned cope for example.

The concelebrants typically receive their vestments when they arrive. [Edited by Moderator]

 

[bpbasilphx]

**One thing they need to do a better job of is providing matching vestments for the Eastern bishops. **

**If they matched, they wouldn’t be eastern!

Unlike the western chasuble, the Byzantine phelonion has to be fitted to the priest or bishop wearing it–and the bishop’s sakkos even more so!**

 

[Spiller]

**One thing they need to do a better job of is providing matching vestments for the Eastern bishops. **

**If they matched, they wouldn’t be eastern!

Unlike the western chasuble, the Byzantine phelonion has to be fitted to the priest or bishop wearing it–and the bishop’s sakkos even more so!**

Naw, no way. I said:

“There is no reason the tailors could not provide matching vestments (while adhering to eastern designs) for them as well…”

The tiny number of ordinaries needing the different eastern vestments have a great many options. Fabric and illustrations of the western chasubles and mitres could be sent to their own tailors – not to be copied precisely, but to blend in, again “while adhering to eastern designs.”

Alternately their measurements could be sent to the vendor supplying the western chasubles and mitres and it could be left to them to procure them.