Viagra

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kentuckyliz said:
Yup, that which would aid a woman’s sexuality is immoral but hey we worship the almighty penis because male sexual pleasure is an absolute good. Sounds like a male dominated church to me.

(OK I’m being facetious and don’t really think that but you know that’s what others think about this position.) 😛
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Ok, I’m going to call those others’ bluff here. What treatment for a corresponding female sexual dysfunction is immoral for the reason that it treats a female sexual dysfunction? Not because it is used as a contraceptive or abortofacient or some other reason.
 
Well, if Viagra is used for pursuing sexual pleasure alone and not fertility, how is that any different from ABC? It separates the unitive and the procreative. To use churchy language.
 
Leopard said:
Originally Posted by agangbern View Post
…The hardening of their penis seemed accompanied with the hardening of their hearts…

Are you referring to a cardiac condition? Do you have reason to think this may not been related to other aging factors?
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It could be a factor too. What I have observed is that they were only between the age of 45 and 55. My observation may not be conclusive. But it it may be worth watching out.
 
kentuckyliz said:
Well, if Viagra is used for pursuing sexual pleasure alone and not fertility, how is that any different from ABC? It separates the unitive and the procreative. To use churchy language.
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How does Viagra frustrate either the unitive or the procreative purposes of the marriage act? To use Churchy language.

The Church does not teach that a medical treatment may not assist only one of these purposes, only that it may not intentionally frustrate either.
 
agangbern said:
It could be a factor too. What I have observed is that they were only between the age of 45 and 55. My observation may not be conclusive. But it it may be worth watching out.
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What observation? Please be specific.
 
Newton_Leite said:
I would like to know if our church has any tell about Viagra, or any sexual stimulation.
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The church has allowed aphrodisiacs in the past, including chocolate (which was originally thought to be of that class) when it was discovered back in the 16th century. The new kinds shouldn’t be treated any differently.
 
kentuckyliz said:
Yup, that which would aid a woman’s sexuality is immoral but hey we worship the almighty penis because male sexual pleasure is an absolute good. Sounds like a male dominated church to me.😛
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Liz??, Really,:eek: Does your husband know where you are, young lady?😛 😛
 
kentuckyliz said:
Well, if Viagra is used for pursuing sexual pleasure alone and not fertility, how is that any different from ABC? It separates the unitive and the procreative. To use churchy language.
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Using Viagra does not in any way inhibit (contra-) conception, in fact enhances it, and does not therefore in itself separate the unitive and procreative aspects of sexual union.

How’s that? 🙂
 
Newbie2 said:
Using Viagra does not in any way inhibit (contra-) conception, in fact enhances it, and does not therefore in itself separate the unitive and procreative aspects of sexual union.

How’s that? 🙂
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Exactly. I strongly disagree with those who say Viagra frustrates the procreative purpose of marriage. I think that the logic in their argument runs as follows (correct me if I’m wrong):

Since a couple using Viagra might suddently get the urge to have marital relations with the primary motivator being desire to be intimate with one another and not procreation, then the unitive and procreative aspects are separated. But if you apply this criteria for the sanctity of marital relations to the entire history of sexual intercourse between spouses, before contraception and NFP, then its a fair bet that almost every time a married couple wanted to be intimate with one another, no matter how open to life the intercourse was (lack of any means of birth control, natural or artificial), the intercourse was a mortal sin. Obviously, this position is absurd.

Objectively, procreation is the primary purpose for spouses to have relations. So, artificial birth control cannot by any means be introduced in the process. I don’t see how this translates to mean that, subjectively, each time a couple wants to engage in intercourse, their first feelings about it must be desire for children over desire to be with one another. These are feelings; they are beyond the control of the individual spouses.

Moreover, it would seem only natural, given our human nature, that desire to be intimate most often be the primary motivator for intercourse. A husband or wife is right in front of you, you know that you love that person and want to consumate your love with them, a child at that point is still a possibility that may or may not be realized 9 months later. Desire for intimacy more than children, by itself, in no way reduces the openess to life of sexual intercourse, especially since the couple may very well desire that procreation occur from the relations.

It would seem that Viagra only aids the process of procreation- instead of not having sex, a couple is having sex. I’d say there’s a greater chance of a woman’s pregnancy with the latter.
 
This is my personal opinion… not the official Church opinion

I don’t have a problem with Viagra as a medication… I do acknowledge that it is severely abused…

I am appalled at how quickly it hit the “approved” medication list of health insurance companies when contrasted with the stark lack of research and developments in the female dysfunction field.

It took years for HRT to be approved by insurance companies to pay for… decades actually… so that women who experience a lack of “desire” when going through menopause to be addressed… but men get their Viagra, Cialis, etc… in no time flat!

There have been several news stories about men having 2 separate prescriptions… on for use with the wife… one for whoever when she isn’t in the “MOOD”… and these guys are reporting that they never had affairs on their wives until they got the prescription… to me, that indicates a problem with decreased self control…

In the mean time, research for any womens issue trails mens in $$ put forth for research… a pretty clear indication that men are valued much more in our society.

But this in no way negates the fact that ED can be treated as a medical condition with these drugs…
 
kentuckyliz said:
Well, if Viagra is used for pursuing sexual pleasure alone and not fertility, how is that any different from ABC? It separates the unitive and the procreative. To use churchy language.
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Logically, it is entirely different. ED is an issue where the man’s body is NOT functioning as designed. The medication in question is intended to correct a medical problem in the patient.
Fertility is not a disease or a medical defect and should not be treated as one. Its as simple as that.

Separate issue: I think some people here are displaying a bit of paranoia on the medical approval process. Trust me on this, there is a MUCH bigger market and driving force out there that would fast track the approval of a female libido enhancing drug than there is for male ED problems. Perhaps a medium minority of men suffer from more than occasional ED. EVERY married guy I know under 40 would be glad to make room in the budget for a female libido enhancing med! 😉 So I doubt the evil patriarchy is responsible for suppressing research on the matter.
 
Hells bells, booze has been around forever and it is approved by the Church. Women seem to respond well to just the right amount of it. But loving them, telling them they are pretty, sweet lies, stuff like that, works too.
 
Not trying to hijack, but infertility IS, in many cases a disease, or the direct cause of one, and so SHOULD be treated as such.
I have PCOS, my SIL has endo, both of us are struggling with infertility.

Back to the subject, so long as the Viagra is being used in a marital situation, and all the rules of unity and procreativity are being followed, I see no problem. It’s between the couple and God, IMO.
 
TC2 said:
Not trying to hijack, but infertility IS, in many cases a disease, or the direct cause of one, and so SHOULD be treated as such.
I have PCOS, my SIL has endo, both of us are struggling with infertility.

Back to the subject, so long as the Viagra is being used in a marital situation, and all the rules of unity and procreativity are being followed, I see no problem. It’s between the couple and God, IMO.
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Note that I said FERTILITY is not a disease. INfertility is. ABC is not treatment for a disease. Sometimes a drug that is used for ABC might be beneficial for treating an actual disease, but in those cases, it isn’t ABC, it is a medicine treating a medical problem.
 
There is nothing wrong with using Viagra. When it was discovered the late Pope John Paul the Second said it was a good thing and to use it.

As far as the Catholic Church is concerened there is no such thing as glutteney when it comes to Sex between married couples.

They encourage married couples to have as much sex as possible but each act must be open to procreation.

Mayo
 
agangbern said:
Ha ha ha! Observation on the possible true effects that penis-hardening substances like viagra would have on the heart of the users.
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This is not intended to be a joke. I ask again, What relationship have you observed between viagra use and cardiac health?
 
I posted this before, and I’ll post this again. ED is often one of the first signs a man will ever get that he has heart disease. If you, or your husband, has ED, GO TO THE DOCTOR! I remember reading a letter in a magazine letter to the editor, where a woman talked about how a year after her husband began to struggle with ED, he fell down dead in the driveway from a massive heart attack. Don’t let this happen to you or someone you love. ED can be a warning sign of serious health problems.
 
Leopard said:
This is not intended to be a joke. I ask again, What relationship have you observed between viagra use and cardiac health?
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I observed that there is a direct relationship between viagra and cardiac arrest! I may be wrong, but that is what I have observed! Prove me categorically wrong if you wish!
 
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