Vicaious Filii Dei

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While having a discussion about early church history, a former Catholic kept bringing up “Vicarious Filii Dei” and how it tranlates into JP 2 and other Popes being associated with 666. I kept trying to explain that it was something akin to the propaganda of
“The Divenchy Code” Can anyone provide some facts I can politely share with him?

Thanks,
 
While having a discussion about early church history, a former Catholic kept bringing up “Vicarious Filii Dei” and how it tranlates into JP 2 and other Popes being associated with 666. I kept trying to explain that it was something akin to the propaganda of
“The Divenchy Code” Can anyone provide some facts I can politely share with him?

Thanks,
That’s not his official title. The titles of the Pope, in the order they are used in the Annuario Pontificio:

Bishop of Rome
Vicar of Christ
Successor of the Prince of the Apostles
Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church
Primate of Italy
Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman Province
Sovereign of the State of the Vatican City
Servant of the Servants of God.
 
That’s not his official title. The titles of the Pope, in the order they are used in the Annuario Pontificio:

Bishop of Rome
Vicar of Christ
Successor of the Prince of the Apostles
Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church
Primate of Italy
Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman Province
Sovereign of the State of the Vatican City
Servant of the Servants of God.
Which is to say, somebody (who called themselves a Christian) sat down and tried various fabricated combinations of Latin official-sounding titles until they came up with one that added up to 666, and then lied and said it was one of the pope’s official title.
 
Which is to say, somebody (who called themselves a Christian) sat down and tried various fabricated combinations of Latin official-sounding titles until they came up with one that added up to 666, and then lied and said it was one of the pope’s official title.
That title is a SDA Anti-Catholic propaganda.
 
Pat Madrid has an answer to this. He had a debate with Michael Scheifer at his website
 
These might help:

envoymagazine.com/backissues/2.2/mar_apr98_coverstory.html and the follow up article envoymagazine.com/backissues/2.5/goingthedistance.html

This sites might help too:
britannica.com/eb/topic-26433/Annuario-Pontificio

jimmyakin.typepad.com/defensor_fidei/2006/03/218.html

and finially from Wikipedia (Yes I know Wikipedia has it’s issues however this might help)
Currently used
The titles of the Pope, in the order they are used in the Annuario Pontificio:
Bishop of Rome
Vicar of Christ
Successor of the Prince of the Apostles
Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church
Primate of Italy
Archbishop and Metropolitan of the Roman Province
Sovereign of the State of the Vatican City
Servant of the Servants of God
Formerly used
Patriarch of the West (dropped 2006)
Vicar of the Apostolic See
Forms of address
“Your Holiness”
“Holy Father”
Hope this helps
God Bless
 
While having a discussion about early church history, a former Catholic kept bringing up “Vicarious Filii Dei” and how it tranlates into JP 2 and other Popes being associated with 666. I kept trying to explain that it was something akin to the propaganda of
“The Divenchy Code” Can anyone provide some facts I can politely share with him?

Thanks,
Bill Gates also sums to 666 in ASCII. You have to cheat slightly by making it William Henry Gates III and adding 3 for the III. Pretty much anyone can be made intot he beast with a bit in ingenuity.
 
Bill Gates also sums to 666 in ASCII. You have to cheat slightly by making it William Henry Gates III and adding 3 for the III. Pretty much anyone can be made intot he beast with a bit in ingenuity.
yep and the same goes for George Bush and Reagan. I’ve heard that their names equal 666 too.

I’ve heard the same for Hitler…

I’m sure that there are more people whose name equals 666.
(Heck even your name might equal 666 :rolleyes:)
 
Ellen White, founder of the SDA, is another whose full name adds up to 666. Interesting, isn’t it?😃
 
Are SDA always anti-Catholic? Is that a part of their doctrine?
There are no doubt some SDAs who are perfectly nice people who don’t hate anyone. (The husband of a friend converted to SDA recently, & I’m hopeful that they haven’t managed to turn him into a complete fanatic…)
That said, 😦 yes, it is part of their doctrine that the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon, & that the pope is the Antichrist. It’s a very strange religion, IMO. It contains a peculiar mix of Christianity and the rantings of Ellen White, their :rolleyes: founder & “prophet”.
 
There are no doubt some SDAs who are perfectly nice people who don’t hate anyone. (The husband of a friend converted to SDA recently, & I’m hopeful that they haven’t managed to turn him into a complete fanatic…)
That said, 😦 yes, it is part of their doctrine that the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon, & that the pope is the Antichrist. It’s a very strange religion, IMO. It contains a peculiar mix of Christianity and the rantings of Ellen White, their :rolleyes: founder & “prophet”.
Many ex-SDA’s really suffer from fear of the Catholic church and need extensive counseling. It’s jammed in their heads week after week. Pray for this gentleman and do all you can to get him on the straight and narrow.
 
Patrick Madrid addressed this issue and many others in his book, Pope Fiction.

He also gave a series of talks on EWTN, and the MP3 files are available here:

ftp://217.160.246.215/pub/audionet/EWTN_programs/Patrick_Madrid/Pope_Fiction/

You’ll find this issue covered in one of these talks.

Hope this helps. :tiphat:
 
While having a discussion about early church history, a former Catholic kept bringing up “Vicarious Filii Dei” and how it tranlates into JP 2 and other Popes being associated with 666. I kept trying to explain that it was something akin to the propaganda of
“The Divenchy Code” Can anyone provide some facts I can politely share with him?

Thanks,
two important factors which haven’t been pointed out yet:
  1. the prophecy of 666 says it will be the NAME of the anti-christ, not a title.
  2. vicarius filii dei isn’t even grammatically correct. It’s a fabrication designed to slander the church.
 
I’ve said it before… I’ll say it again…

Saying something 100 times doesn’t make something true…
I’ve heard that eating pop rocks and drinking soda will make my tummy explode…

Guess what, it hasn’t yet…

Ask them for proof…

Leave it at that.

Saying something is true doesn’t make something true
 
Here is how Ellen Gould White’s name adds up:

E = n/a
L = 50
L = 50
E = n/a
N = n/a

G = n/a
O = n/a
U = V = 5 (in ancient Latin, U and V were identical)
L = 50
D = 500

W = UU (double-U) = V+V = 10
H = n/a
I = 1
T = n/a
E = n/a

Total = 666
 
Here is how Ellen Gould White’s name adds up:

E = n/a
L = 50
L = 50
E = n/a
N = n/a

G = n/a
O = n/a
U = V = 5 (in ancient Latin, U and V were identical)
L = 50
D = 500

W = UU (double-U) = V+V = 10
H = n/a
I = 1
T = n/a
E = n/a

Total = 666
So she is the beast 666 according. Though, I doubt she is the real beast. I do believe 666 is Nero.
 

" Da Vinci Code" - FWIW 🙂 Are you thinking of “Givenchy” ?​

As for Vicarius Filii Dei (so spelt):

1. Vicarius Filii Dei is in Latin - Revelation 13.18 is in Greek

2. The numerical values of the Latin letters can be made to yield a value of 666 only with a lot of straining

3. The Revelation cannot have meant to refer to anyone living later than the generation living in St. John’s time, because it is not a predictive book: it was written in the 1st century, for 1st-century churches, to meet 1st-century needs & difficulties. St. John was not talking about Pius IX, or Napoleon or Hitler, or Saddam Hussein or Communism or [insert name of current nuisance] - what use would a denunciation of Napoleon or Hitler have been to Christians living 1800 years earlier & thousands of miles from Paris or Berlin ?

The Papacy did not exist in the 1st century, so to write about it to Christians who could never have heard of it would be about as helpful as sending those Christians a biography of Ronald Reagan.

What relevance could a Polish Pope have to Christians in the first century ? Poland did not even exist - let alone the Polish Pope.

4. The trouble with many of the interpretations of Revelation, & with the “Bible Code”, is that the interpretation is not drawn out of the text, but read into it. If Bilbo Baggins the Hobbit were thought to be a world threat, he would be discovered in Rev. 13.18 & the “Bible Code” (not forgetting Nostradamus). Since it is widely admitted (for now, at least) that BB is a fictional character, that interpretation is not likely - yet. In 2000 years’ time, who knows ?

5. Revelation cannot refer to the Papacy because the usual texts in chapters 13,17 & 18 are selected from others. The Gettysburg Address is a whole speech - not a heap of unrelated fragments. The same applies to Revelation. The anti-Papal interpretation is possible only if a lot of the context is ignored - not that Protestants are alone in this abuse of the book.

6. the 1260 days of Rev.12 are often taken to be 1260 years - the SDAs (who seem to be the souce of the VFD thing) reckon them from 538 to 1798. But this is possible only if one jumps around the Bible.

7. Suppose the Papacy is all bad - what is to stop something far worse coming along later ? The early Protestants, & their descendants until 1945, could think of the Papacy as outstandingly evil because they had nothing to compare it with - so they could see it as uniquely bloodthirsty (whether rightly or wrongly, is BTW). But no Pope ever killed the tens of millions slaughtered by various atheistic regimes. If the Papacy is supremely evil - where does that leave even more godless regimes ?

If the world is about to end, & the Papacy is so far the worst regime one knows of, one may have a point. But supposing there are centuries to go, & worse tyrannies to come. Luther did think in the 1520s that the world might end. He could not know, & Ellen White could not know, that Mao would kill 70 million people, & Stalin 60 million, not hundreds of years apart, but between 1924 & 1976. (Mrs. White died in 1915.) 130 million people in 52 years is a bit more than the Papacy has managed in 1700 years or so. If “the man of sin” is outdone by an even worse man of sin, or a whole crowd of men of sin, his right to be regarded as uniquely “the man of sin” ceases to look impressive. As for abortion, that has killed 100s of millions. And who objects ? The “man of sin” & his “satanic” Church. Isn’t that rather odd behaviour for a self-respecting “man of sin” ? The Papal “man of sin” should surely rejoice at such loss of life - but what does he, they, do ? They object to it. (BTW, how can one man of sin be 260+ ?)

IOW, the case against the Papacy depends on treating it as the last & supreme tyranny in history; it depends on the absence of any later ones. It depends on an error of perspective.

8. Why must the 666 be someone well-known ? Why can’t it be some girl in the back of beyond of whom no Protestant expositor has heard ? Or is the position closed to women ?
 
i’m sure this whole thing has been addressed before here, but didn’t quite see it in this thread. i just “joined” an SDA forum…though i should’ve known better), but here was a post that was in reply to what i posted (i copied and pasted Karl’s essay on this from the Catholic Answers site).

so just wondering if these letters are even real, and if Karl has addressed them before. THANKS!

Dear Karl,

In the interests of scholarship and accuracy, the title VICARIUS FILII DEI, which does add up to 666 using the values of Roman numerals, is indeed genuine. It appeared in the Donation of Constantine, which was held to be genuine by the Catholic Church for over 600 years. According to Christopher B. Coleman, who published a book* on the subject in 1922, the Donation was cited by at least 10 popes as proof of their temporal authority and also appeared in Catholic canon law (Anselm’s, Cardinal Deusdedit’s, and Gratian’s Decretum also known as Concordia Discordantium Canonum). I personally have a copy of Lucius Ferraris’ Prompta Bibliotheca, 1858 Paris edition, in which the title VICARIUS FILII DEI appears in volume 5, column 1828, under “PAPA”, “Article II.” Prompta Bibliotheca, according to the 1913 Catholic Encyclopedia, is “a veritable encyclopedia of religious knowledge” and “will ever remain a precious mine of information” and is quoted frequently as an authoritative Catholic source.

Will you concede, in view of the above, that the title was held to be genuine for the many hundreds of years that the Catholic Church defended the Donation of Constantine?

I would also refer you to additional evidence on my web page at aloha.net/~mikesch/ and request a rebuttal from you, which I will gladly post on my web page. This is your opportunity to conclusively prove your assertion that VICARIUS FILII DEI is a fake, on an Adventist web page.

Respectfully,
Michael Scheifler
  • The Treatise of Lorenzo Valla on the Donation of Constantine, text and translation into English by Christopher B. Coleman, © Renaissance Society of America 1993, printed in Canada, University of Toronto Press, ISBN 0-8020-7734-X, reprinted from the1922 edition by arrangement with Yale University Press, pages 1-2.

On 7 September, 1998, this second request for a rebuttal was sent to Karl Keating via his Apologetics forum at EWTN:

Mr. Keating,

… I would like for you to clarify your statement on July 2nd in this forum that Vicarius Filii Dei is a “fake” title for the papacy. I presented you with a challenge and documented the proof on 2 July that the title was in fact used by the Catholic Church for well over 600 years, to which you have not as yet responded. I invite you again to defend your statement and refute my documentation. If you feel you have a case, I am certain your readers will want to hear what it is. I will also post your remarks on my web page, appending it to my challenge to you at aloha.net/~mikesch/keating.htm

Respectfully,
Michael Scheifler

There was no response of any kind from Mr. Keating, nor did he address my challenge in his forum.

Here’s another article on this by Bacchiochi, that proves again the Catholic churches lack of honesty about it’s own history and how it tries to cover up things, but ALSO says that some SDAs are guilty of similar fraudulent things which is just as wrong and has several other thoughts for both sides to consider…see the red parts especially, but gotta run to a class:
 
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