"victim souls"?

[Monica4316]

Hi,
I recently saw a part of this strange documentary… honestly I don’t know if this is made up or not, but - anyway, it was about this girl who was really into the occult, like voodoo sort of stuff… and then one day the “spirits” (demons…) told her that this one man is sick and going to die, and that if she takes his sickness upon herself, he will live. And - she did. Now she’s in a type of a coma. Again, this might totally be made up. I don’t really believe it cause it’s a documentary on tv lol.

But then I started thinking, isn’t that sort of similar to the Saints who were “victim souls”?
do people involved in witchcraft etc…do they really believe in this sort of thing too, like these Saints? But in the case of the Saints, this wasn’t from demons, right…

I don’t really know what to think lol… does anyone know anything about this?

 

[Eucharisted]

Victim souls are souls whom Christ chooses to be victims for sinners, taking on the Justice of God for sinners so said sinners can recieve God’s Mercy. It is an imitation of Christ, the Victim on the Cross.

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

If she’s in the occult she has been deceived by demons if it’s true and her sacrifice is meaningless in terms of merit and she will likely lose her soul if she dies in a coma without divine mercy intervening which is rare.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

Hi,
I recently saw a part of this strange documentary… honestly I don’t know if this is made up or not, but - anyway, it was about this girl who was really into the occult, like voodoo sort of stuff… and then one day the “spirits” (demons…) told her that this one man is sick and going to die, and that if she takes his sickness upon herself, he will live. And - she did. Now she’s in a type of a coma. Again, this might totally be made up. I don’t really believe it cause it’s a documentary on tv lol.

But then I started thinking, isn’t that sort of similar to the Saints who were “victim souls”?
do people involved in witchcraft etc…do they really believe in this sort of thing too, like these Saints? But in the case of the Saints, this wasn’t from demons, right…

I don’t really know what to think lol… does anyone know anything about this?

That’s interesting. What was the name of the documentary? I agree with you. I have always been suspicious of the theology of victim souls, anyway.

 

[survive]

I know a man who thought he was a shaman and could do this as well. I think he was quite wrong. He got sicker than the patients, and they just got sick again. He never totally healed from some of these experiments. It seemed to me the aggregate illness increased using that type of healing. With a simple prayer for healing the aggregate health improves from what I’ve seen. If some people are chosen by the Lord to be the ones who take other people’s sickness, it seems to me the sickness they get would be the same or less than what they relieve and the healing of the patient would be complete, to glorify God more.

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

I know a man who thought he was a shaman and could do this as well. I think he was quite wrong. He got sicker than the patients, and they just got sick again. He never totally healed from some of these experiments. It seemed to me the aggregate illness increased using that type of healing. With a simple prayer for healing the aggregate health improves from what I’ve seen. If some people are chosen by the Lord to be the ones who take other people’s sickness, it seems to me the sickness they get would be the same or less than what they relieve and the healing of the patient would be complete, to glorify God more.

Who can understand God or his ways?

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

That’s interesting. What was the name of the documentary? I agree with you. I have always been suspicious of the theology of victim souls, anyway.

What do you mean? Jesus and Mary were the first victim souls. Do you mean suspicious of those outside the church?

 

[beckycmarie]

Hi,
I recently saw a part of this strange documentary… honestly I don’t know if this is made up or not, but - anyway, it was about this girl who was really into the occult, like voodoo sort of stuff… and then one day the “spirits” (demons…) told her that this one man is sick and going to die, and that if she takes his sickness upon herself, he will live. And - she did. Now she’s in a type of a coma. Again, this might totally be made up. I don’t really believe it cause it’s a documentary on tv lol.

But then I started thinking, isn’t that sort of similar to the Saints who were “victim souls”?
do people involved in witchcraft etc…do they really believe in this sort of thing too, like these Saints? But in the case of the Saints, this wasn’t from demons, right…

I don’t really know what to think lol… does anyone know anything about this?

There is such a thing as a victim soul, but this example is not one. A victim soul is chosen by God, not by demons.

 

[Monica4316]

Victim souls are souls whom Christ chooses to be victims for sinners, taking on the Justice of God for sinners so said sinners can recieve God’s Mercy. It is an imitation of Christ, the Victim on the Cross.

yes… I think examples are, …St Faustina, St Therese, St Gemma Galgani, St Padre Pio?

If she’s in the occult she has been deceived by demons if it’s true and her sacrifice is meaningless in terms of merit and she will likely lose her soul if she dies in a coma without divine mercy intervening which is rare.

I agree.

That’s interesting. What was the name of the documentary? I agree with you. I have always been suspicious of the theology of victim souls, anyway.

I’m starting to think that maybe there is a right and a wrong way of approaching all this… I wouldn’t say the Saints were wrong, hmm… probably they were indeed guided by God. I *do *think in this particular case, it’s not from God at all. I think that sometimes people completely misinterpret this whole theology anyway, and it HAS lead some people astray, so I see what you’re saying. It can really lead mess a person up if they’re not lead by God.

Do you think that in some cases it is from God though?

I’m still trying to figure this out lol.

btw, I don’t know the name of the documentary… it was actually something online, on some Russian internet channel. My mom came across it accidently and we started watching. But then we turned it off cause we thought it was weird and …creepy

I know a man who thought he was a shaman and could do this as well. I think he was quite wrong. He got sicker than the patients, and they just got sick again. He never totally healed from some of these experiments. It seemed to me the aggregate illness increased using that type of healing. With a simple prayer for healing the aggregate health improves from what I’ve seen. If some people are chosen by the Lord to be the ones who take other people’s sickness, it seems to me the sickness they get would be the same or less than what they relieve and the healing of the patient would be complete, to glorify God more.

that makes sense…

Who can understand God or his ways?

not me!

What do you mean? Jesus and Mary were the first victim souls. Do you mean suspicious of those outside the church?

I’d definitely be suspicious of any “victim souls” outside the Church. Even within the Church, there are “false” ones. The only ones that I’d believe in are the Saints…

There is such a thing as a victim soul, but this example is not one. A victim soul is chosen by God, not by demons.

true…

so would you all say that in this case, nothing happened to the sick man? she just invited demons into her life and got sick, and that’s it? (no merit)
IF it’s true, that is.

 

[beckycmarie]

so would you all say that in this case, nothing happened to the sick man? she just invited demons into her life and got sick, and that’s it? (no merit)
IF it’s true, that is.

The story is so bizarre to me that I can only guess that if it’s true, she invited demons in, fell for their trick and suffered as a result of it (but did not suffer as a victim soul). I have no idea what happened to the man in this story. Since demons cannot heal, I seriously doubt he was cured. Demons can fake a healing by causing a problem and then withdrawing, making it look as if the person was cured of the ailment demons caused in the first place. But, with this woman out cold, why would they have any motivation even to fake a cure on the man?

If this story is at all true, I suspect that this woman was possibly well on the path to holiness and a threat to Satan’s kingdom, so demons tricked her into becoming a fake victim soul in order to keep her from being a good influence on others. Her agreement to cooperate with demons gave them the grounds they needed to knock her lights out. A tragic story, really.

 

[Shin]

A tragic story that shows how important the Faith truly is, and how exterior and interior actions depend upon it.

 

[Cluny]

Victim souls are souls whom Christ chooses to be victims for sinners, taking on the Justice of God for sinners so said sinners can recieve God’s Mercy.

---

In other words, sometimes God gets in such a rage He has to take it out on somebody.

Sorry. There is only ONE Victim Soul.

 

[Angels_Unaware]

What do you mean? Jesus and Mary were the first victim souls. Do you mean suspicious of those outside the church?

True, I mean the occassional stories of children being asked to become victim souls, even though this was done at Fatima. Such as the girl who was a vegetable and became a tourist attraction because oil oozed from holy items in her house.

I am just skeptical, and the idea doesn’t sit well with me. Maybe I am wrong, who knows, but I see Jesus uplifting and easing suffering of children rather than saddling them with more. Sure, you could come along and argue it’s a greater glory, but I don’t like the idea.

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

yes… I think examples are, …St Faustina, St Therese, St Gemma Galgani, St Padre Pio?

I agree.

I’m starting to think that maybe there is a right and a wrong way of approaching all this… I wouldn’t say the Saints were wrong, hmm… probably they were indeed guided by God. I *do *think in this particular case, it’s not from God at all. I think that sometimes people completely misinterpret this whole theology anyway, and it HAS lead some people astray, so I see what you’re saying. It can really lead mess a person up if they’re not lead by God.

Do you think that in some cases it is from God though?

I’m still trying to figure this out lol.

btw, I don’t know the name of the documentary… it was actually something online, on some Russian internet channel. My mom came across it accidently and we started watching. But then we turned it off cause we thought it was weird and …creepy

that makes sense…

not me!

I’d definitely be suspicious of any “victim souls” outside the Church. Even within the Church, there are “false” ones. The only ones that I’d believe in are the Saints…

true…

so would you all say that in this case, nothing happened to the sick man? she just invited demons into her life and got sick, and that’s it? (no merit)
IF it’s true, that is.

The demons can and do perform wonders and signs as the antichrist will. what about changing the sticks into snakes with pharaoh and Moses? This was demons. Demons cannot perform miracles but they are extremely intelligent and find it very easy to dazzle and even deceive and lure us.
With these victim souls do they become victim souls because their saints or do they become saints because their victim souls. i think the latter is likely but in itself it does not make one a saint. You are very brave if you think you can understand God and his ways.

 

[Shin]

True, I mean the occassional stories of children being asked to become victim souls, even though this was done at Fatima. Such as the girl who was a vegetable and became a tourist attraction because oil oozed from holy items in her house.

I am just skeptical, and the idea doesn’t sit well with me. Maybe I am wrong, who knows, but I see Jesus uplifting and easing suffering of children rather than saddling them with more. Sure, you could come along and argue it’s a greater glory, but I don’t like the idea.

I think that the key to understanding this is thinking about several concepts:

First concept: Justice. It’s what requires suffering for all mankind, and it is why Christ suffers as an example for us to follow.

An understanding of Justice is very hard to find in the world today.

Second concept: Sacrificial love. It’s why Christ suffers as an example for us to follow. It’s for the sake of Justice.

Third concept: Merit. It’s what we gain from performing acts for the sake of God. The greater the merit, the greater our place in Heaven and the more good we can do for others. What acts gain the greatest merit? Assuming all things are other things are equal and the acts are in perfect obedience to the Will of God – generally those acts which are more difficult are more meritorious.

Therefor, greater love has no man than who lays down his life for his fellows – and by life, not only the living spark, but all the pleasures, joys, good and benefits therein contained. The more that is renounced, the greater the sacrifice. The greater the sacrifice, the greater the merit and love. The greater the love, the more the gain for all.

Some great examples of suffering for the sake of God’s love and justice are found in the Autobiography of St. Margaret Mary Alacoque and the Biography of St. Lydwine of Schiedam.

They can be found online or for purchase.

I’ve also improved by understanding of justice by simply reading such works as St. Anselm’s treatment of it. Every sinful act does require penance, does require a repayment of what was lost. God will make up part of it, but you have to make it up too.

 

[AveSantaMaria]

Some great examples of suffering for the sake of God’s love and justice are found in the Autobiography of St. Margaret Mary Alacoque and the Biography of St. Lydwine of Schiedam.

They can be found online or for purchase.

I’ve also improved by understanding of justice by simply reading such works as St. Anselm’s treatment of it. Every sinful act does require penance, does require a repayment of what was lost. God will make up part of it, but you have to make it up too.

Thank you for sharing your wisdom and insight.

Maybe you might share where online one can read

1. The Autobiography of St. Margaret Mary Alacoque
2. Biography of St. Lydwine of Schiedam
3. St. Anselm’s treatment of Justice

 

[Shin]

Certainly! Thanks be to God!

1. The Autobiography of St. Margaret Mary Alacoque
2. Biography of St. Lydwine of Schiedam
3. St. Anselm’s treatment of Justice

I see that I have the Letters of St. Margaret Mary Alacoque available but do not see the ‘Autobiography’ so I may be mistaken about it being online, it is an inexpensive and great purchase in paperback from many places.

 

[uselessbeggar]

I just received my Catholic Answers publication for March/April 2009.There is a cover story on page 26 entitled “What is a Victim Soul?” It supplies the perfect answer to your question.

I hope you are able to get a copy.

uselessbeggar:
blessyou:

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

I think that the key to understanding this is thinking about several concepts:

First concept: Justice. It’s what requires suffering for all mankind, and it is why Christ suffers as an example for us to follow.

An understanding of Justice is very hard to find in the world today.

Second concept: Sacrificial love. It’s why Christ suffers as an example for us to follow. It’s for the sake of Justice.

Third concept: Merit. It’s what we gain from performing acts for the sake of God. The greater the merit, the greater our place in Heaven and the more good we can do for others. What acts gain the greatest merit? Assuming all things are other things are equal and the acts are in perfect obedience to the Will of God – generally those acts which are more difficult are more meritorious.

Therefor, greater love has no man than who lays down his life for his fellows – and by life, not only the living spark, but all the pleasures, joys, good and benefits therein contained. The more that is renounced, the greater the sacrifice. The greater the sacrifice, the greater the merit and love. The greater the love, the more the gain for all.

Some great examples of suffering for the sake of God’s love and justice are found in the Autobiography of St. Margaret Mary Alacoque and the Biography of St. Lydwine of Schiedam.

They can be found online or for purchase.

I’ve also improved by understanding of justice by simply reading such works as St. Anselm’s treatment of it. Every sinful act does require penance, does require a repayment of what was lost. God will make up part of it, but you have to make it up too.

Thank you for writing that. That’s very good and well said. I like what you said about no greater love etc. I’ve heard victim souls are living martyrs because their martyrdom is very slow. I thank you for the suugested reading too. I’ll try and look it up one day. God bless

 

[John_Russell_Jr]

I just received my Catholic Answers publication for March/April 2009.There is a cover story on page 26 entitled “What is a Victim Soul?” It supplies the perfect answer to your question.

I hope you are able to get a copy.

uselessbeggar:
blessyou:

Wouldn’t that be online here soon too? Don’t they put all their articles online on this site? We should be able to read it here soon. Thanks for letting us know:thumbsup: