video games?

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A comment from a thread in another forum (and the new TRON movie coming out) made me wonder: what is the moral value of video games?

The video game has been around now for over 30 years, from basic digitized text, 2D shapes, to colour 3D and is developing toward a fully immersive virtual reality. The basic concept involves the player interacting with a digital fantasy world for his own amusement. This is in reference to most games which are made for recreational (non-educational) entertainment.

What is the value in video games, if any? Isn’t it always inherently an escape from true reality? Doesn’t that make it always a waste of our God-given time in the real world?
 
A comment from a thread in another forum (and the new TRON movie coming out) made me wonder: what is the moral value of video games?

The video game has been around now for over 30 years, from basic digitized text, 2D shapes, to colour 3D and is developing toward a fully immersive virtual reality. The basic concept involves the player interacting with a digital fantasy world for his own amusement. This is in reference to most games which are made for recreational (non-educational) entertainment.

What is the value in video games, if any? Isn’t it always inherently an escape from true reality? Doesn’t that make it always a waste of our God-given time in the real world?
You could say the exact same thing about Sport. Surely that is distracting us from God and is a waste of time focusing on something which is not relevant for the real issues in the real world? If you are proposing that we should remove video games based on the idea that it is wasting time we could spend praising God and doing something worthwhile - why not become a Puritan or join the Amish? How is Sport anything but a waste in the same context?

The value of video games is that it is a form of recreation than can be enjoyed by people regardless of their physical ability. It can be socialable, it can be educational, it can be a stress-reliever.

Yes it can be a temporary escape from the real world or the representation of a world which you wish you belonged to - but for some people, instead of escaping to a video game, they escape by reading a fiction book. Are they to be criticised as well?

Speaking as a person who was once addicted to video games and treated for depression - yes, I used virtual reality as a way to escape being bullied and having no friends in the real world - so I could be in a world where I was popular, beautiful, and sure of myself.

That was not a misuse of video games and those games I played shouldn’t be blamed because thousands of people can play them without becoming addicted. That was just me escaping because I felt like I couldn’t cope. Now I play video games for enjoyment. I didn’t become addicted to video games because of the games (otherwise I would still be addicted, but I’m not because I no longer have those issues and I’ve matured), but because it was something I could immerse myself in without having to think about my real world problems. I could have done the same thing with books, sport etc - but I felt lonely and enjoyed socialising with my online friends.

About those who become seriously addicted and don’t appear to have any mental issues which could explain why they play games - some people have a naturally “addictive” personality - are more likely to become addicted to things than others. Video games presents an ideal that are attractive to many. To me it is just like alcohol - can be addicted, but can also be enjoyed without going too far. Therefore don’t blame the games or the alcohol.

We don’t call for a ban on alcohol just because some people become alcoholics, same for video games.
 
I’m quite a fan of gaming, and a friend nagged me into getting World of Warcraft, which I love btw.

I work 40 hours a week in a heck of a stressful job. I go to Mass each Sunday. I attend a Catholic young adults group. I play golf when I can get to the course. I’m rather introverted. To me, video games are a bit of fun that keeps my mind active.

As Lemon said, its no more a waste of time then reading books or sport. It simply a modern outlet. I don’t think God is to bothered by it actually.

HOwever, with that said, people need to follow their conscience, I can play games that would riddle most people’s consciences with nightmares, but the way I look at it, is if it becomes an idol, then that’s not great. So, say you decide to play a video game instead of going to Mass.

People do need to lighten up.
 
I can offer my point of view as a reasonably enthusiastic gamer. I own an Xbox 360 which I purchased about 3 years ago. I’ve bought various games for it, usually playing them for a while, and trading them in for store credit (and then newer games) when they get boring or a better game comes out.

First, I’d like to mention this briefly: I’m not sure if you are a gamer, but if not it’s likely that you are not aware of a great debate that’s been going on among game develpors/designers, gamers, and others about whether or not video games can be considered art. Everyone has a different definition of what art is, so everyone has a different opinion about it. Obviously, in my opinion, if a video game is art, then it has value simply because a human being created it not only as an expression of him/herself (and of the myriad of people who contributed to the game), but as a way of helping others enter into that world and find ways of expressing themselves through it. (e.g. multiplayer and “role playing” games, video game lingo, etc.). If video games are art, then clearly they hold some value, even just for existing.
What is the value in video games, if any? Isn’t it always inherently an escape from true reality? Doesn’t that make it always a waste of our God-given time in the real world?
I can think of a few other things about which you might say the same thing… Television, movies, novels, talk radio, blogs and social networks… to name just a few. I think that video games have just as much value as all these things. When you sit down to watch Lord of the Rings, or read it for that matter, aren’t you looking for an escape from reality? That’s what makes these things so grand. That’s why we’re taught as little kids that reading can take us all over the world, beyond the moon and up to the stars, and back again, in our imaginations. Are such pursuits a waste of time? I don’t think so.

Some provisions have to made, of course, as there are some dangers. Video games can be highly addicting, Maybe even more so than television or the internet, because of the level of immersion one experiences in the world of the game. This immersion seems to be the “holy grail” of the gaming industry right now. As technology gets better, so does the realism of the gaming experience. Not only are graphics and sounds better, but characters have more to say, in-game worlds are rich, and you can’t discover everything the game has to offer in one sit-down. Story-lines are complex and characters reveal themselves to you slowly over time. Many games even include possibilities for the gamer to choose the path his character takes. The Fallout series is a perfect example of this. Everywhere you go in Fallout there are choices to make, such as “do i steal this item?” “do I believe what this person is telling me?” “Do I make this deal?” “Do I kill this person?”
Games are becoming more and more like real life, and it won’t be long now, until Star Trek’s vision of the “Holodeck” becomes a reality. We have to be careful to limit our amount of time spent gaming, just as we limit our time in front of TV, etc. to make sure we’re using our time wisely. Video games are one way to wind down after a hard day of work, or enjoy a day off. Just don’t overuse them.

Also, it should be noted that many games out there are certainly not appropriate for children, and may be morally offensive to a person of any age. Be careful what you find yourself doing in games that portray evil as fun and inviting. Some games encourage the player to steal cars, shoot innocent civilians, hire prostitutes, etc… (Grand Theft Auto comes to mind.) While these games may have merit on some level as achievements of technology, and can be appreciated in certain ways, we should be careful to know ourselves and know how much it will influence us before we go shooting machine guns out the window in a stolen-car in-game drive-by.

Other than a few disclaimers, I think video games have as much or more merit as movies, television, and other ways of escaping reality. They are a fun way to entertain ourselves and can let us experience things we’d never get to do in real life. (Play professional sports, travel all over the universe, race at 100 mph down a city street, and infinitely more). I don’t know if your post was asking “should I play video games,” but if so, I’d say it’s totally a matter of opinion. Some like them, some don’t. Do whatever you think you need to do to serve Our Lord and become a Saint!

God’s peace.
-Francis
 
The Fallout series is a perfect example of this. Everywhere you go in Fallout there are choices to make, such as “do i steal this item?” “do I believe what this person is telling me?” “Do I make this deal?” “Do I kill this person?”
Awesome game by the way.

Big fan of teh lead pipe.
 
Awesome game by the way.

Big fan of teh lead pipe.
Fallout 3 was a huge favorite of mine. Went to the midnight release of New Vegas and I’ve been playing that for a while now… I don’t find it as addicting as F3 was though… I’m not sure why. I like it just as much or better… great series.
 
What is the value in video games, if any? Isn’t it always inherently an escape from true reality? Doesn’t that make it always a waste of our God-given time in the real world?
Actually, one could argue that prayer in of itself is just another form of escapism.
 
What is the value in video games, if any? Isn’t it always inherently an escape from true reality? Doesn’t that make it always a waste of our God-given time in the real world?
Again, you could make this same argument about any work of fiction.
 
Fallout 3 was a huge favorite of mine. Went to the midnight release of New Vegas and I’ve been playing that for a while now… I don’t find it as addicting as F3 was though… I’m not sure why. I like it just as much or better… great series.
Both of those games were great, but they were not exactly the same game. New Vegas had more of a “Western” theme where Fallout 3 had a " nuclear wasteland" feel.
 
Actually, one could argue that prayer in of itself is just another form of escapism.
:eek: This has to be one of the most outrageous statements I have ever seen on this forum. Communication with our Creator is a “form of escapism”??!!! I guess Jesus liked to “escape” a whole lot, as well as all of the saints.

Prayer strengthens us to face this world and overcome it, to imbue ourselves with the love and grace of God, to conform our will to God’s will, to intervene on behalf of ourselves and others. How is that “escapism?” You honestly didn’t mean statement, did you? If so, please give me your “arguments”. I would love to hear them.

Unbelievable.
 
Again, you could make this same argument about any work of fiction.
No that’s not true. There is way too much fiction about which this is true, but there are tremendous books about morality and spirituality and true love that can help us in our spiritual growth. The whole key to how we spend our time is discernment. We only have so many hours in a day, and we only have so many days in our lives. We must realize that we are under constant spiritual assault, especially living in this materialistic, western world. Is spending hours and hours of time on mindless and far too often violent and sexual games a good way of drawing closer to our Creator and preparing for eternity? It’s a cliche, but we should always ask ourselves, What Would Jesus Do? And we have been warned that there are certain movies, books and games, video and otherwise, that could open us up to the devil.

Wasting my time is something I often have to confess. The things I do may not be of and by themselves sinful, but am I diregarding the prompting of the Holy Spirit? Is this going to help me when I stand in front of my Creator and account for every word and action in my life? Am I using my time selfishly when there are people who could use my help?

Time is one of our most precious commodities, far more precious than money, and we must be very careful how we spend it.
 
You could say the exact same thing about Sport. Surely that is distracting us from God and is a waste of time focusing on something which is not relevant for the real issues in the real world? If you are proposing that we should remove video games based on the idea that it is wasting time we could spend praising God and doing something worthwhile - why not become a Puritan or join the Amish? How is Sport anything but a waste in the same context?

The value of video games is that it is a form of recreation than can be enjoyed by people regardless of their physical ability. It can be socialable, it can be educational, it can be a stress-reliever.
Good points. I would say sports is not a waste of time because of the physical exercise involved, and the social interaction. I guess video games could fulfill the second of those two, sometimes. But unless other people are actually present, I’m not sure it’s a real way to be social.
Yes it can be a temporary escape from the real world or the representation of a world which you wish you belonged to - but for some people, instead of escaping to a video game, they escape by reading a fiction book. Are they to be criticised as well? .
I like Brooklyn’s answer (above).
For example, the Lord of the Rings is a fantasy book, but it’s a work that conveys truth through mythical metaphor, so we can see it as a kind of learning.
 
First, I’d like to mention this briefly: I’m not sure if you are a gamer, but if not it’s likely that you are not aware of a great debate that’s been going on among game develpors/designers, gamers, and others about whether or not video games can be considered art. Everyone has a different definition of what art is, so everyone has a different opinion about it. Obviously, in my opinion, if a video game is art, then it has value simply because a human being created it not only as an expression of him/herself (and of the myriad of people who contributed to the game), but as a way of helping others enter into that world and find ways of expressing themselves through it. (e.g. multiplayer and “role playing” games, video game lingo, etc.). If video games are art, then clearly they hold some value, even just for existing.
Digital art? That’s an intriguing concept… I guess that would put it along the same lines as an animated movie then - aesthetic value. If so, then I suppose the moral value would depend on the work itself. Maybe Tolkien’s argument for the value of fantasy can be applied to video games: interactive ‘sub-creation’ ?

I’m curious: what are the arguments of designers and developers who say video games are *not *art? How do they justify making them?
 
Actually, one could argue that prayer in of itself is just another form of escapism.
Prayer is a form of worship. When we pray, we pray to a living person. It is part of our dialogue with God. A part of our relationship with God.

Peace,
Ed
 
First, I’d like to mention this briefly: I’m not sure if you are a gamer, but if not it’s likely that you are not aware of a great debate that’s been going on among game develpors/designers, gamers, and others about whether or not video games can be considered art. Everyone has a different definition of what art is, so everyone has a different opinion about it. Obviously, in my opinion, if a video game is art, then it has value simply because a human being created it not only as an expression of him/herself (and of the myriad of people who contributed to the game), but as a way of helping others enter into that world and find ways of expressing themselves through it. (e.g. multiplayer and “role playing” games, video game lingo, etc.). If video games are art, then clearly they hold some value, even just for existing.
Digital art? That’s an intriguing concept… I guess that would put it along the same lines as an animated movie then - aesthetic value. If so, then I suppose the moral value would depend on the work itself. Maybe Tolkien’s argument for the value of fantasy can be applied to video games: interactive ‘sub-creation’ ?
Can we say that about games that mimic real life though, like sports games (my personal favourite)?

I’m curious: what are the arguments of designers and developers who say video games are *not *art? How do they justify making them?
 
Again, you could make this same argument about any work of fiction.
Pope Benedict has declared that in 2011, Sunday is to be a day of rest. Just as we need to sleep, we need to rest. Each video game should be judged on its individual merits or lack of them. Read what is written in Philippians:

bible.cc/philippians/4-8.htm

Those who create share in the gift of creativity that God has freely given. As a creator myself, I need to be careful to use this gift wisely and for the betterment and enjoyment of my fellow man.

Peace,
Ed
 
Actually, one could argue that prayer in of itself is just another form of escapism.
Prayer does engage the imagination, but the imagination can be a healthy way of transcending the mundane to reach higher abstract truths. It’s not a form of escapism unless you don’t believe that God is real.
 
Digital art? That’s an intriguing concept… I guess that would put it along the same lines as an animated movie then - aesthetic value. If so, then I suppose the moral value would depend on the work itself. Maybe Tolkien’s argument for the value of fantasy can be applied to video games: interactive ‘sub-creation’ ?
Can we say that about games that mimic real life though, like sports games (my personal favourite)?

I’m curious: what are the arguments of designers and developers who say video games are *not *art? How do they justify making them?
From my own experience, there are two types of art: Fine Art and Commercial Art. Fine Art hangs in art galleries or appears on the internet. Its primary goal is personal self-expression, not money. Commercial art, on the other hand, is considered bad because the artist does his work for money for someone else.

In the end though, there is little difference. The popular Fine Artist ends up making money after passing review by individuals called art critics. Once these people have placed their stamp of approval on a piece of Fine Art and a Fine Artist, then the work and artist achieve the label “important” and they are praised, and their work purchased.

Peace,
Ed
 
:eek: This has to be one of the most outrageous statements I have ever seen on this forum. Communication with our Creator is a “form of escapism”??!!! I guess Jesus liked to “escape” a whole lot, as well as all of the saints.

Prayer strengthens us to face this world and overcome it, to imbue ourselves with the love and grace of God, to conform our will to God’s will, to intervene on behalf of ourselves and others. How is that “escapism?” You honestly didn’t mean statement, did you? If so, please give me your “arguments”. I would love to hear them.

Unbelievable.
Thanks for proving my point. And yes, the logic is believable. Prayer is also a means some get their “spiritual high” hence the escapism. You of all people wouldn’t deny the peace of meditating in front of the Blessed Sacrament would you? And from my observation of the saints, they are even less likely.

You put your mind in a state that is disconnected from reality and by reality, I mean empirical reality. As much as I’m Catholic, as much as I’m a theist, I face the facts. The reality described by the faith is not the reality as the word is now commonly understood. When people say ‘reality’, you realize it’s hardly ever something spoken in a happy tone? When we have problems, when we undergo stress, and when our lives just pretty much suck, we call that reality and people would do any means to get their minds off it all be it via video games or prayer.
 
Prayer does engage the imagination, but the imagination can be a healthy way of transcending the mundane to reach higher abstract truths. It’s not a form of escapism unless you don’t believe that God is real.
Yes well, I tend to see things from the ‘dark side’ perspective in the hopes of discovering how to people of the faith can defend themselves. However, in this case prayer as a form of escapism, it’s an intellectual battle that must be lost in order to win the war.

Furthermore, you are right that prayer engages the imagination. However, video games do so too. Plenty of my stories and my character concepts derive heavily from the archetypes and cosmologies of game worlds (e.g. Sylvarant, Rune-Midgard, Azeroth, Sanctuary, Minegarde).

I have to admit though that contemplative activities (e.g. prayer, meditation, and reflection) are more likely to reach higher truths than gaming.

Unlike gaming though, such activities are a strain to my brain. People aren’t robots. We need to relax at times. 😉
 
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