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BritishCatholic
Guest
I hope you’re joking.
- Status
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WillieManillie
Guest
Yes, I am joking. Just illustrating a point of the non-traditional movements in the church.
I miss going to mass when mass was a mass and not an event.
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Marian_Carroll
Guest
This thread has been edited. Please stay with the topic and kindly bear in mind:
Banned topics #9
Debating moderator action, including discussing, disputing, or speculating as to why a member’s posting privileges were restricted, why posted messages were edited or deleted, or why threads were closed or removed from public fora
Banned topics #19
Identifying individual parishes, clergy, or hierarchs as “unfaithful to the Magisterium”, guilty of “liturgical abuse”, or otherwise engaged in unacceptable or unpopular practices, based on personal “knowledge” or opinion
And last, but certainly not least: While posters are free to express their opposing opinions, it is incumbent on all, to temper those remarks with **charity **and some degree of civility and courtesy towards others.
Please edit future contributions to threads of all commentary which attempts to disparage individuals, tends towards being accusatory and comes across as both rude and judgmental, keeping in mind that blanket accusations are not to be confused with meaningful content. Those unable to make these distinctions may well find their forum posting privileges directly affected.
Banned topics #9
Debating moderator action, including discussing, disputing, or speculating as to why a member’s posting privileges were restricted, why posted messages were edited or deleted, or why threads were closed or removed from public fora
Banned topics #19
Identifying individual parishes, clergy, or hierarchs as “unfaithful to the Magisterium”, guilty of “liturgical abuse”, or otherwise engaged in unacceptable or unpopular practices, based on personal “knowledge” or opinion
And last, but certainly not least: While posters are free to express their opposing opinions, it is incumbent on all, to temper those remarks with **charity **and some degree of civility and courtesy towards others.
Please edit future contributions to threads of all commentary which attempts to disparage individuals, tends towards being accusatory and comes across as both rude and judgmental, keeping in mind that blanket accusations are not to be confused with meaningful content. Those unable to make these distinctions may well find their forum posting privileges directly affected.
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WillieManillie
Guest
Lighten up. Don’t take your job or life too seriously.
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Bishopite
Guest
No, you are not wrong. It cheapens the Mass and that dancing show is immoral enough on TV, let alone at Mass. Big screens are fine outside the Mass…using them during the Mass to show words I don’t believe is against church teaching but isn’t a good idea. Taking away the statues is flat out wrong as we are sensible people; we use our senses like sight to see the images of the Saints and most importantly Jesus who is God.Hey all, while I was on summer vacation this year, I attended a very “modern” Catholic Church. EDIT. There were no statues, no stations of the cross, and no crucifixes anywhere in sight. At first glance it looked very similar to my hometown college’s Catholic Church, until I noticed that there were multimedia projection screens on the walls.
I was interested to find these because I’ve only seen them once before in a Catholic Church, and they were rolled up during the Mass(used only for Sunday school and CCD). However, this church used them during the Mass to display the words to responsorial psalms and songs! There were even flashy backgrounds with nature scenes and generic religious images behind the words, and I found the whole thing rather distracting.
However, the worst was yet to come, because during the parish announcements the priest introduced the new spiritual director, who used the screens to play a home made music video advertising a youth group dancing competition fundraiser!
The video featured clips from television shows like “So You Think You Can Dance”, and a mix of Christian pop and secular music. Many of the locals were looking around nervously during the video, so I could tell that I wasn’t the only one who was uncomfortable with the whole thing.
I think that the use of these multimedia devices detracts from the beauty of the Mass and cheapens the whole experience. Why must people be entertained when they come to church?! It’s the one place where God asks you to put down the remote control and pay attention to His Word, yet humans still find a way to squeeze a television in there!
I know that other non-Catholic Churches have multimedia presentations, but they also have rock and roll music and pews as soft as sofas! I always prided myself in the knowledge that Catholics didn’t need gimmicks like these to fill the pews.
Am I wrong? What does everyone here think of using these devices in church?
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Bishopite
Guest
Don’t give people ideas, some might actually think those are virtuous things to do at a parish.
In my area, there is a nun who is a principal of a Catholic school who introduces herself as “Father” so-in-so. She actually thinks she is a priest; I supose she hasn’t yet been diagnosed with having delusions of grandeur!
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Firefox
Guest
Well, we’ve got a screen for the words. It sits there, and you can read the words there. I fail to see what the problem is. Look at the screen instead of a book. Seems to me to distract less than flipping pages.
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agapewolf
Guest
As was stated before…what exactly makes using a screen for words protestant? That doesn’t make any sense…because they did it first, or more often? hardly.
It is there TO focus on the mass and not be entertainment but to give people words to sing for “full conscious active participation” …which is to be considered before all else (that is a quote from the liturgy documents).
I’m not saying it is aesthetically pleasing, or even appropriate…but the reasons you give here hold no water.
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WillieManillie
Guest
Hold on thar buckarooo. I guess per this logic no one obtained the “full conscious active participation” being there were no mega-screens prior to the past few years?
Remember now every screen or two requires an audio-visual engineer in the back or next to the church band.
Certainly this is not distracting. Nopers.
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agapewolf
Guest
No, that is not the logic. No need to go to the opposite extreme, buckaroo.
It is something that might, and I say might, keep everyone visually focused forward and together, and might help more participation. It doesn’t have to be distracting,
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Leopard
Guest
The Church since Apostolic times has embraced the use of audiovisual technology that assists the faithful in being better able to see and hear during worship, as well as facilitate catechesis and other teaching.
Candles were used in the catacombs to better enable the faithful to see what was happening. Windows built into church buildings not only permitted light, but with later use of stained glass images became indispensable teaching tools before books were widely and easily available and many could not read anyway. Architecture employing good acoustic properties facilitated hearing across large spaces. Later, amplified microphones in churches improved on this to make sounds loud enough to be heard clearly in even larger spaces, while telephonic hearing aid systems in confessionals helped keep sounds quiet enough to preserve privacy in small spaces, while still being audible between the priest and the penitent.
Now we have electronic video technology. There is nothing inherently wrong with the proper use of newer technologies in churches that would not also have been inherently wrong with the proper use of any older technologies used in churches.
Candles were used in the catacombs to better enable the faithful to see what was happening. Windows built into church buildings not only permitted light, but with later use of stained glass images became indispensable teaching tools before books were widely and easily available and many could not read anyway. Architecture employing good acoustic properties facilitated hearing across large spaces. Later, amplified microphones in churches improved on this to make sounds loud enough to be heard clearly in even larger spaces, while telephonic hearing aid systems in confessionals helped keep sounds quiet enough to preserve privacy in small spaces, while still being audible between the priest and the penitent.
Now we have electronic video technology. There is nothing inherently wrong with the proper use of newer technologies in churches that would not also have been inherently wrong with the proper use of any older technologies used in churches.
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Leopard
Guest
It need not be distracting to the faithful in general if the engineer works discretely. In a well positioned station, most of the faithful would probably never even see him.
As to this being distracting to the engineer himself, not necessarily any more so than having each piece of music ready to play would be for the organist or than seating people and assisting with the collection would be for the ushers. If this level of distraction would be sufficiently unacceptable to permit an AV engineer to assist at mass, should we not then also abolish organists and ushers?
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theoprofessor
Guest
It is certainly not right to be entertained during mass. Permit me to quote Hans Urs von Balthasar one of the greatest theologians of the Church. He wrote: “Surely excluded [from the liturgy]is everything which directs the community away from attention to God and his coming and turns its gaze back upon itself…Everything in the celebration which does not guide the hearts and thoughts toward the One being celebrated is EVIL [my emphasis]; and all the more so, the more the quality of festivity is separated from its objective and itself becomes the center…the question is always raised as to whether it brings about a living opening and conversion of the heart or the self-enjoyment of one’s own vitality.”
Surely we attend the celebration of the mass to praise, honor, adore and receive Jesus into ourselves. Is it too much to ask this for one hour a week? We still have the other 167 hours left to ourselves.
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Leopard
Guest
I do not think that it was Digitonomy’s intent to say that entertainment should or needed to occur during mass, but that if some correct element of the Mass should happen to be entertaining it does not need to be changed to remove any entertainment value it may have.
For example, I enjoy seeing patricipants in group events work together with precision. It doesn’t matter if it is a symphony orchestra, a military formation on parade, a halftime marching band, the team executing a perfect play after halftime, a crack team of Emergency Room physicians and nurses, or a gang of roustabouts setting up the Big Top.
Naturally I also enjoy seeing Liturgy done well, with celebrants, deacons, and servers working together as a team, every participant aware of what he is doing and doing it well. I would even go so far as to say that I sometimes even find this entertaining. I sometimes mention this to my parish priests, deacons and servers to let them know their effort is appreciated. Does this mean that upon learning this my pastor should start celebrating Mass in a more careless manner, because “it is certainly not right to be entertained during mass”?
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WillieManillie
Guest
Traditional: Organist and choir in back choir loft or on the side behind acoustic wall
New Wave: The name choir morphed into band. The expansion of the swinging sister’s guitar into the string section. The drums section that includes bongos and tambourine. Minimally one lead singer and one backup, preferably more. If the band is diverse in presentation and entertainment skills it may take on a violinist for those touching sad melodies.
Candles in church and the catacombs don’t qualify nor classify in the same group as the audacious mega-screens for amphitheaters. Screens are purely another way to allow the parishioners participate in a warm-fuzzy-feeling environment. New Wavers feel traditionalists are rigid, cold and non-emotional.
Priests that push the envelope with the Koom-By-Ya and group hugs philosophy are defiant and disobedient to the forms of the church.
Sadly this trend goes to the ways of protestantism because priests are too liberal or lack the strength to correct these practices.
If you want liberalism go to a non-catholic church.
New Wave: The name choir morphed into band. The expansion of the swinging sister’s guitar into the string section. The drums section that includes bongos and tambourine. Minimally one lead singer and one backup, preferably more. If the band is diverse in presentation and entertainment skills it may take on a violinist for those touching sad melodies.
Candles in church and the catacombs don’t qualify nor classify in the same group as the audacious mega-screens for amphitheaters. Screens are purely another way to allow the parishioners participate in a warm-fuzzy-feeling environment. New Wavers feel traditionalists are rigid, cold and non-emotional.
Priests that push the envelope with the Koom-By-Ya and group hugs philosophy are defiant and disobedient to the forms of the church.
Sadly this trend goes to the ways of protestantism because priests are too liberal or lack the strength to correct these practices.
If you want liberalism go to a non-catholic church.
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BritishCatholic
Guest
Exactly.
Don’t people realize that, if we do eventually modernize and ordain women and so forth, that we will literally be in all liturgical aspects the Episcopal Church?
Big screen TV’s is the first step to things like Gay Pride Masses and married clergy. Things like this need to stop because it is simply not Roman Catholic. If you want to watch TV during church, then go one of the billion “mega” Protestant churches in your area.
But like the person above me said, people who literally work day and night to “modernize” and “liberalize” the Catholic Faith should be ashamed to call themselves Faithful Catholics. I once knew a woman who, in our rosary intention book, prayed for a women pope every week.
Bottom line, people like that have no business in a Catholic Church.
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agapewolf
Guest
philosophy are defiant and disobedient to the forms of the church.
This is the opposite of the truth in my experience.
First, I would not call them all new wavers. The music is a very legitimate form of music ministry…
Second, I love contemporary music, and I do not feel that traditionalists are cold or rigid, unless making such sarcastic and ridiculous comments like yours that are so.
Third, the priests that I know that enjoy contemporary music are also Completely 100% orthodox Catholic in their homilies and follow the rubrics of the mass. I’m sure the kind that you explain do exist, but this is not my experience and the mass generalization is not true.
And one more thing, I would have left the church, BEFORE, had it not been for contemporary music to bring me back. That has taught me to love a quiet daily mass and silent adoration, to which now I will obey whatever our church tells us.
But back to the issues of screens…
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Firefox
Guest
Well, we’ve also modernized in the use of a CD player in the church. Once a year, Archbishop Vlazny sends down a CD to listen to, to ask for donations to the Archbishop’s Catholic Appeal. But, CD players are inherently entertaining, just like screens by your logic.
I have severe doubts that projecting words on the wall is going to lead to Gay Pride masses.
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WillieManillie
Guest
Beautifully stated BritishCatholic! You are no doubt the minority in he UK. Keep your strength.
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Delphinus85
Guest
I agree with you. I don’t see how having a video screen can be distracting unless they are blaring videos DURING the mass. During announcements, and to display lyrics for people doesn’t seem a huge problem. I actually think it’s a cool idea, especially for lyrics. You don’t have to break a prayerlike attitude to flip through a missal. You just stand and the words are displayed for you. Video homilies and the like are inapropriate, but…shrugs Sometimes it can be a big help, especially for getting messages across at announcements that volunteers are needed, or to show people just how cool it is to work in children’s ministries, or to sing in the choir.I know I should stop diving in and saying, well on the other hand…but, here goes…
We use screens at our church. We display musical lyrics. I personally feel that the words shown are not distracting, any more than flipping through a book to find the right page for the lyrics would be distracting. I think it can just be a case of whatever you are used to.
We have also on occasion used the screens to show either a video or a scrolling announcement. Ours is a very active parish, and there are many requests for time to speak to the congregation from different ministries. As an example, if the Children’s Program is registering for the upcoming sessions starting in September, we might see a video clip of what happens in the Children’s Program and a mesage about regisration. Consider a short, well prepared video clip, versus Miss Teacher coming to the ambo and giving a little speech about what they do and that they need volunteers, etc., plus she then has to make this same announcement at 4 different masses. She may be wonderful with children but not such a great public speaker…I hope you get the picture. Members of the congregation get burned out on a never ending stream of announcements or speakers (finance committee, building committee, Christmas Hamper committee,…) and people do complain. An efficient and well produced clip (editing out the umms, the repetitions, etc.) seems to be better received in our community.
Anyway, just thought I’d offer a different perspective…fwiw…
In Christ…
Edited to add…
Thus our screens are not used for entertainment but to minimize disruption to the mass…
and…we have not done away with statues or anything else “distracting”…
Just imagine a small drop down screen off to the side, with the altar at the front. The screen serving merely to add to the smoothness of things. It’s not about entertainment at all, although, like anything, it could be abused.- Status