View of Confession

[zcharry]

You are right that it is not just action. But feelings are not required either. A person can acknowlege that what he has done is wrong and sinful, make and act of confession, and receive absolution even if it is not accompanied by a lot of feeling. Granted, an integrated, healthy person will feel grief over offending God with sin, and it is a more perfect contrition if it is accompanied by remorse. But the sacrament is not less effective without feelings.

To response to this would require more information and I would not want to take your statement out of context.
I will say that saying feelings are not required opens a door I would not want to pass through. We as humans are driven by everything we do by feelings, and I personal feel that it is impossible to be truly sorry for your sins without feeling. Going out on a limb with your context, you seem to say that it is great if you have feelings but you do not need them. That is saying you can just walk in, mouth the words, and walk out forgiven. I understand scripture to read that there has to be an effort for change or feeling of one to change from sin to be truly sorry for sin. From your response, I see action as lacking

God Bless

 

[jmcrae]

I will say that saying feelings are not required opens a door I would not want to pass through. We as humans are driven by everything we do by feelings, and I personal feel that it is impossible to be truly sorry for your sins without feeling.

Thoughts are not feelings.

We don’t go through life based on our feelings; otherwise, we would fail. For example, if I don’t feel like going to work in the morning, I’m going to fail at my job, if I follow that feeling. Or if I don’t feel like cleaning the house, or making a healthy dinner, etc., then if I follow those feelings, I’m going to ruin my diet, and end up living in a pigsty. We can’t live according to our feelings - we have to know and do what is right to do, regardless of how we happen to feel at some particular moment in time.

Going out on a limb with your context, you seem to say that it is great if you have feelings but you do not need them. That is saying you can just walk in, mouth the words, and walk out forgiven.

Sorrow for sins is not only or even primarily the feeling of sadness. Rather, it is the knowledge that we have done wrong, the recognition that we must change our behaviour, and the intention to change our ways. It is not a matter of just “mouthing the words” - rather, it is the interior recognition of our faults - with or without feelings. We don’t have to be in abject tears about it - we can have sorrow for sins without the tears, and without the big emotional display.

It is also possible to be in tears because we got caught, rather than because of sorrow for sins. Just because someone is crying doesn’t necessarily mean that they have sorrow for sins. There could be some other reason for the tears.

I understand scripture to read that there has to be an effort for change or feeling of one to change from sin to be truly sorry for sin. From your response, I see action as lacking.

The effort to change is definitely required, but it doesn’t have to be based on emotions alone - it can be motivated by knowledge, recognition, and intention to change, as well. Feelings may or may not enter into it - some people do feel sad when they sin, but others are not so emotional - they recognize that they have sinned, and they want to change their lives - this recognition and desire to change is enough for the Sacrament of Reconciliation - no priest is ever going to say, “Well, you didn’t cry hard enough, so I am withholding the Absolution.”

But if the person really is just parroting words, and doesn’t really intend to change, the priest will sometimes pick up on that, and he might challenge the person to examine their life more closely, and ask them to discern what areas of their life need change.

 

[zcharry]

Thoughts are not feelings.

We don’t go through life based on our feelings; otherwise, we would fail. For example, if I don’t feel like going to work in the morning, I’m going to fail at my job, if I follow that feeling. Or if I don’t feel like cleaning the house, or making a healthy dinner, etc., then if I follow those feelings, I’m going to ruin my diet, and end up living in a pigsty. We can’t live according to our feelings - we have to know and do what is right to do, regardless of how we happen to feel at some particular moment in time.

Sorrow for sins is not only or even primarily the feeling of sadness. Rather, it is the knowledge that we have done wrong, the recognition that we must change our behaviour, and the intention to change our ways. It is not a matter of just “mouthing the words” - rather, it is the interior recognition of our faults - with or without feelings. We don’t have to be in abject tears about it - we can have sorrow for sins without the tears, and without the big emotional display.

It is also possible to be in tears because we got caught, rather than because of sorrow for sins. Just because someone is crying doesn’t necessarily mean that they have sorrow for sins. There could be some other reason for the tears.

The effort to change is definitely required, but it doesn’t have to be based on emotions alone - it can be motivated by knowledge, recognition, and intention to change, as well. Feelings may or may not enter into it - some people do feel sad when they sin, but others are not so emotional - they recognize that they have sinned, and they want to change their lives - this recognition and desire to change is enough for the Sacrament of Reconciliation - no priest is ever going to say, “Well, you didn’t cry hard enough, so I am withholding the Absolution.”

But if the person really is just parroting words, and doesn’t really intend to change, the priest will sometimes pick up on that, and he might challenge the person to examine their life more closely, and ask them to discern what areas of their life need change.

To separate thought and feelings is a twist on words. You could never have a thought that does not invoke a feeling the two are inseparable.
I understand what you are trying to say but it is physical impossible to separate the two. Even the most mundane action invoke a feeling or better said, an emotion.

The post above states quite clearly, that feelings or emotions are not required to have confession and my answer to that would be to have no feelings or emotion you have no confession. To make a change in actions or feelings you need an emotion to invoke the change.

The emotion or feeling does not need to be express on the outside or to a certain degree. We are confessing to God and He know our true feelings, but without those feeling you do not have a change

 

[jmcrae]

To separate thought and feelings is a twist on words. You could never have a thought that does not invoke a feeling the two are inseparable.

What is your definition of a “feeling”? Again, thoughts are not feelings. The realization that you have sinned is not an emotion - it’s information. We have to respond to that information by wanting to change our lives, but we can have reasons other than emotions for wanting to change our lives - to be more pleasing to God, for example, or to improve our quality of life. It doesn’t have to be because it makes us cry - it could be, but it doesn’t have to be.

I understand what you are trying to say but it is physical impossible to separate the two. Even the most mundane action invoke a feeling or better said, an emotion.

I don’t think that’s true - in fact, the majority of my thoughts do not evoke emotions. They are just information about the world around me. I don’t react emotionally to every little thing, and I doubt that most people do.

 

[zcharry]

What is your definition of a “feeling”? Again, thoughts are not feelings. The realization that you have sinned is not an emotion - it’s information. We have to respond to that information by wanting to change our lives, but we can have reasons other than emotions for wanting to change our lives - to be more pleasing to God, for example, or to improve our quality of life. It doesn’t have to be because it makes us cry - it could be, but it doesn’t have to be.

I don’t think that’s true - in fact, the majority of my thoughts do not evoke emotions. They are just information about the world around me. I don’t react emotionally to every little thing, and I doubt that most people do.

Talk to anyone that is trained in human behavior and I would be shocked if one of them ever said that you cam have a thought without an emotion. You might want to think that you have thoughts without an emotion but the field of behavior science would differ with you.
The field of brainwashing is based on the concept of thought and emotion. You install a thought which produces and emotion, which in turn provides an action.

 

[jmcrae]

Talk to anyone that is trained in human behavior and I would be shocked if one of them ever said that you cam have a thought without an emotion. You might want to think that you have thoughts without an emotion but the field of behavior science would differ with you.
The field of brainwashing is based on the concept of thought and emotion. You install a thought which produces and emotion, which in turn provides an action.

And yet, if someone is continually bursting into an emotional display (laughter, crying, anger) every time they have a thought, we hospitalize them - why is that, if every thought should produce an emotion?

 

[zcharry]

And yet, if someone is continually bursting into an emotional display (laughter, crying, anger) every time they have a thought, we hospitalize them - why is that, if every thought should produce an emotion?

You are confusing or better said, only looking at emotion as what is expressed or you visual see. You can have emotions and do all the time that never show or are expressed to other people. This concept can be applied to every word you hear in any form of speech, hearing or written or any thought you have.

Example, a person hears sees or thinks the word Protestant and the emotion, or feeling comes to this person as wrong religion, my religion, feeling of disgust…… Each person will have a similar, opposite or somewhere in between emotion on hearing these words, but each will have an emotion. If they have never heard the word, the emotion could be one of question. This is only expressed internally. Maybe this person is with a group of people and they laugh when they hear the word. This is classified as an outward emotion. This emotion never goes away once it is install in ones brain. The emotion can be shape to produce a different emotion or feeling outcome, but the emotion itself can never be erased only how we react to the emotion. This emotion can be just a passing thought or a full blow reaction. This is how we are able to express to people a context in our words. Without this thought / emotional continuity, we would have trouble communicating concepts to each other in common speech.
Volumes of books have been written on this and this is a microscopic explanation of the thought, emotion and actions, concept of human behavior.

 

[jmcrae]

You are confusing or better said, only looking at emotion as what is expressed or you visual see. You can have emotions and do all the time that never show or are expressed to other people. This concept can be applied to every word you hear in any form of speech, hearing or written or any thought you have.

Example, a person hears sees or thinks the word Protestant and the emotion, or feeling comes to this person as wrong religion, my religion, feeling of disgust…… Each person will have a similar, opposite or somewhere in between emotion on hearing these words, but each will have an emotion. If they have never heard the word, the emotion could be one of question. This is only expressed internally. Maybe this person is with a group of people and they laugh when they hear the word. This is classified as an outward emotion. This emotion never goes away once it is install in ones brain. The emotion can be shape to produce a different emotion or feeling outcome, but the emotion itself can never be erased only how we react to the emotion. This emotion can be just a passing thought or a full blow reaction. This is how we are able to express to people a context in our words. Without this thought / emotional continuity, we would have trouble communicating concepts to each other in common speech.
Volumes of books have been written on this and this is a microscopic explanation of the thought, emotion and actions, concept of human behavior.

You have a totally different definition of emotion than the rest of the world, then. So, yes, people are “feeling” (actually they are thinking, but in your way, they are “feeling” repentant, because they are thinking that they need to change their life, which is why they go to Confession.

HAPPY NOW?

 

[zcharry]

You have a totally different definition of emotion than the rest of the world, then. So, yes, people are “feeling” (actually they are thinking, but in your way, they are “feeling” repentant, because they are thinking that they need to change their life, which is why they go to Confession.

HAPPY NOW?

Just so you are not confused, this is how the human behavior science field views this.

I recommend you do a little research on the topic of human behavior
This is just not my view.

Your post above is to simplistic and does not properly represent my point accurately.

 

[jmcrae]

Just so you are not confused, this is how the human behavior science field views this.

I recommend you do a little research on the topic of human behavior
This is just not my view.

I was in therapy for years; I know something about psychology.

Your post above is to simplistic and does not properly represent my point accurately.

If every thought is actually a feeling, then you don’t even have a point, since obviously anyone conscious enough to go to Confession is having “feelings” about it, and thus, is perfectly qualified to be forgiven for their sins, by your definition.

 

[Mordocai]

It is not about emotion, thought they can be involved. Our emotions took a big hit due to original sin; a real blow.
What contrition is about is the conscience; a well-formed conscience being convicted by the Holy Spirit. A well-formed conscience is one that has been formed according to the truth and is thus able and willing to say “I screwed up”
Sorrow for sins is always involved, else there is no forgiveness.
We can feel sorrow for the poor and hungry in Africa for example, but not always feel emotional about it. (not sure if thats a good analogy, but it just came to me)

God’s Blessings
Mordocai

 

[Texan_in_DC]

I wrote this as a question in another thread but would like to expand on it to get a wider understanding of how people feel or view this doctrine of the Catholic Church. I have read the Catholic Catechism view on this topic.

I would like to know why you would feel that God would forgive your venial sins coming to him through Jesus Christ but would deny you forgiveness for a mortal sin without a Priest.

The Priest is not the one actually forgiving the sin, but Jesus Christ, the Priest is the tool in which Jesus uses. It was Jesus Christ that gave us this Sacrament of Pennance. Also please note that in regards to mortal vs veniel sin, if we have commited a serious sin which trully has broken the relationship with Christ, then it is not only a good thing to go to confesion but also seek spiritual direction. To confess with your mouth outloud is also a psychology thing.

What for the person who is injuried and will not get to confess to a Priest?

1) A Preist can come to them
2) There is always the last rites given to us on our death bed

Would God deny a faithful Christian eternal live because a man (Priest) was not there to give absolution at the last hour.

Probably not, lets try to remember that the sacrament of Pennance gives us that special grace that restores our relationship with Christ, its not a hurdle to get in our way.

If God would forgive him without a Priest, would he not at other times even when it was not your last hour?

Prior to any confession, we ask Jesus Christ to forgive us our specific sins, prior to going into the confessional, we also ask him to give us the strength to confess out loud what we haved confessed in private, by confessing our sins oitloud helps the repent process and gives us the relief that our sin is actally forgiven if we do the pennance and repent.

Please to not get me wrong. I respect your faith and I’m not saying you are wrong or trying to change your mind, I just do not understand the reason behind a Priest being needed.

**Well thats sad, because the sacrament of pennance or reconciliation allows us to restore the relationship with Christ in which sin has seperated.

Do you deny Jesus giving the authority to forgive and retain sin in the bible?**

Your Brother in Christ

 

[flyersfan1088]

I think Jesus institued the Sacrament of Reconciliation as a great favor to us. He knows our nature. He knows how much we yearn to actually KNOW we are forgiven by hearing the words. For instance, if you have wronged me in some way, wouldn’t you feel much more relieved to hear me say “I forgive you” than to simply assume that I do? Also, Jesus knows that a little humility is good for us from time to time. It’s good for spiritual growth.