Viewing faith from an atheist's perspective?

[Enigma87]

Basically I’m in an discussion with an atheist, and they think God is jibberish. I have some questions which I have concern for. First I just want to say, when people say science is the answer for life it is. God created science which would explain life to us, and for some people they put aside faith since science is the ‘golden answer’. So believing god created science and that can only explain our mortal existence any shape or form considered wrong?

Anyways, why is Catholicism the ‘correct’ religion? Do people who reject our faith, still have a chance of getting into heaven? What would I say about the church being to political in the dark ages. I just want to know these for my own personal self. No point in arguing with them, seeing they think darwin is God.

What about people who are not baptized, can they go to heaven? Seeing that atheists aren’t baptized. Little kids sometimes die unfortunately while they are not baptized does this mean they go to hell?

 

[Lypher]

Basically I’m in an discussion with an atheist, and they think God is jibberish. I have some questions which I have concern for. First I just want to say, when people say science is the answer for life it is. God created science which would explain life to us, and for some people they put aside faith since science is the ‘golden answer’. So believing god created science and that can only explain our mortal existence any shape or form considered wrong?

Anyways, why is Catholicism the ‘correct’ religion? Do people who reject our faith, still have a chance of getting into heaven? What would I say about the church being to political in the dark ages. I just want to know these for my own personal self. No point in arguing with them, seeing they think darwin is God.

What about people who are not baptized, can they go to heaven? Seeing that atheists aren’t baptized. Little kids sometimes die unfortunately while they are not baptized does this mean they go to hell?

The Catechism Of The Catholic Church can answer or point you in the direction of the answers you seek. You can search on this topic and should find the passages that discuss salvation outside of the Church…many threads… This will answer the baptism as well as other religions and salvation.

Take Care…

 

[Suspicious_Mind]

Being Catholic doesn’t mean you go to heaven automatically. Just because you aren’t baptized doesn’t mean you go to hell either, so no, little kids do not go to hell.

And no, people who reject Catholicism don’t go to hell either. It just depends on the person, what they’ve done in life. Not everyone is born into a Catholic family, or has been given the chance to learn about Catholicism. Common sense indicates that people in these circumstances are different to someone who has been given the truth and decide to act differently.

Also, we can’t just expect everyone and anyone to simply become Catholic just because they know about it, a lot of our belief systems are dependent on what we were raised with. Mahatma Gandhi was Hindu, and he was a great man. I’m still at awe as to how he gained indepedence for India through complete passive resistance, he was so sure and determined not to use violence, just a strong calling for what was right.

Would he go to hell because he was not Christian, or Catholic for that matter? I don’t think so, he seemed to live a righteous life.

 

[teachccd]

Objective truth cannot change regardless of a person’s viewpoint. Believing that there is no God will not make Him go away. If you deny Christ and His mission it does not render Him to be whoever you make Him out to be. The most profound question in scripture occurs when Christ asks, " Who do you say that I am?"

Trying to prove God will never occur if one seeks empirical data over faith. It is with the eyes of faith that exposes the evidence that leads one to God. When you answer Christ’s question above are you led to believe that He founded a Church? Are you led to believe that the Church is guided by the Holy Spirit and is a sacramental Church?

Whether or not a person is Catholic depends upon their faith journey and ther understanding of God’s revelation. But again I must stress that our understanding and conclusions can NEVER alter objective truth. Objective truth is not relative to one’s feelings of beliefs.

So, we have God and His revelation of Himself to us. We can never change that and how we view God is known to God and only He can judge us on where we are with Him. God wishes for all people to be saved even those who are at their most limited understanding. And thank you God for that… teachccd

 

[nickybr38]

He lived a righteous life but he denied God…?

Mind you I agree with what I’ve read somewhere else, which is it is not our place to presume who goes to hell and who doesn’t. All we can do is focus on teaching the truth to all who will listen.

 

[Suspicious_Mind]

He lived a righteous life but he denied God…?

Mind you I agree with what I’ve read somewhere else, which is it is not our place to presume who goes to hell and who doesn’t. All we can do is focus on teaching the truth to all who will listen.

I think he believed in “Gods” not a God. Yes that’s how he was brought up, and being brought up in 1800’s India, what else can you expect?

Pardon me, if I sense a tone of judgment in that sentence. Yes, he lived a righteous life. A great leader and a human being, unfortunately assassinated.

Gandhi stated that the most important battle to fight was overcoming his own demons, fears, and insecurities. Gandhi summarized his beliefs first when he said “God is Truth”. He would later change this statement to “Truth is God”. Thus, Satya (Truth) in Gandhi’s philosophy is “God”.

“When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won. There have been tyrants and murderers and for a time they seem invincible, but in the end, they always fall — think of it, always.”

"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

"There are many causes that I am prepared to die for but no causes that I am prepared to kill for."

Gandhi earnestly believed that a person involved in public service should lead a simple life. He first displayed this principle when he gave up wearing western-style clothing, which he associated with wealth and success. When he returned to India he renounced the western lifestyle he lead in South Africa, where he had enjoyed a successful legal practice.

As soon as we lose the moral basis, we cease to be religious. There is no such thing as religion over-riding morality. Man, for instance, cannot be untruthful, cruel or incontinent and claim to have God on his side.

The sayings of Muhammad are a treasure of wisdom, not only for Muslims but for all of mankind.

I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.

Later in his life, when he was asked whether he was a Hindu, he replied, “Yes I am. I am also a Christian, a Muslim, a Buddhist and a Jew.”

In many ways, he exhibited a lot of sentiments said by Christ. He just didn’t speak it, he acted it. He wasn’t like a lot of other religious leaders dressed in fancy clothes, gorging on food, and spending time writing articles and preaching all day.

When people used to come to him with a problem, he would often send them away and tell them to come back one month later, when they’d come back he’d say, I too struggled with the problem, before I give you advice I wanted to make sure I was free of the struggle.

Yes, I believe he was a righteous man, and he was Hindu. It’s not mutually exclusive.

 

[AdamC]

God created science

I’m sorry, I don’t mean to split hairs or being annoyingly picky, but I really hate when people say this. God did NOT create science. Science is the observance, study, and manipulation of the natural world by humans. WE created science.

God gave us the natural talents and gifts needed in order for us to create it, but He didn’t directly create it any more than He created cars or calculators.

Science is what we do to discover truth, and the fact that it exists seems to me to be further evidence of the ingrown need and desire to know God. We crave understanding, and science is one way we can grow closer to and know God. After all, how do you judge the scope of the Creator if you don’t understand the creation?

 

[Suspicious_Mind]

I’m sorry, I don’t mean to split hairs or being annoyingly picky, but I really hate when people say this. God did NOT create science. Science is the observance, study, and manipulation of the natural world by humans. WE created science.

God gave us the natural talents and gifts needed in order for us to create it, but He didn’t directly create it any more than He created cars or calculators.

Science is what we do to discover truth, and the fact that it exists seems to me to be further evidence of the ingrown need and desire to know God. We crave understanding, and science is one way we can grow closer to and know God. After all, how do you judge the scope of the Creator if you don’t understand the creation?

He probably meant it in terms of a first cause.

 

[nickybr38]

I don’t mean to be judgmental. I have always been taught that it is through Christ alone that we are saved. If all who live righteously are saved - what would be the point of the church? There are MANY good atheists who are charitable and good… there are many good Muslims. Many good people, period.

But that’s just what I was taught, I don’t know the churches position on such things I just know when one claims to serve all the gods who exist I have to wonder which god has taken him up after his death.

 

[doanli]

Without looking at the other comments, I would say indeed that Faith is indeed a spiritual/supernatural gift.

I wonder about the existence of God, I just look up to the clouds in the sky and then, am able to see a perfectly round Sun.

That is how I know God exists. That’s all it takes.

I don’t know if an atheist can understand that. I can only explain to him, if I can communicate well enough, how orderly the universe and life on Earth here seem to be (even when men seek to destroy–life still comes back.) — to me, there is a Great Mind behind all of this.

 

[doanli]

I’m sorry, I don’t mean to split hairs or being annoyingly picky, but I really hate when people say this. God did NOT create science. Science is the observance, study, and manipulation of the natural world by humans. WE created science.

God gave us the natural talents and gifts needed in order for us to create it, but He didn’t directly create it any more than He created cars or calculators.

Science is what we do to discover truth, and the fact that it exists seems to me to be further evidence of the ingrown need and desire to know God. We crave understanding, and science is one way we can grow closer to and know God. After all, how do you judge the scope of the Creator if you don’t understand the creation?

I read somewhere, a long time ago, that an angel said that every disease that Mankind suffers–the cures/remedies can be found in the Earth.

I am hoping they find those treasures soon for the cures of all cancers.

 

[Suspicious_Mind]

I don’t mean to be judgmental. I have always been taught that it is through Christ alone that we are saved. If all who live righteously are saved - what would be the point of the church? There are MANY good atheists who are charitable and good… there are many good Muslims. Many good people, period.

But that’s just what I was taught, I don’t know the churches position on such things I just know when one claims to serve all the gods who exist I have to wonder which god has taken him up after his death.

Depending on the version of the Bible you use, some of it appears to have verses that indicate that you have to believe in Christ to be saved. John 3:16 is an excellent example where slight differences in the word have different meanings:

John 3:16 (King James Version)

16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:16 (New International Version)

16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[a] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Same verse, different version of the Bible. Completely different implication. The KJV implies that people who believe in Christ should not perish, because a belief in Christ SHOULD mean people also live righteous lives, because they know of him and know what he wants from us.

The NIV seems to imply that anyone who believes in Christ will automatically be saved, which I think is contrary to reason. You asked what would be point of a Church if everyone who lived righteously would be saved, I could similarly ask what would be point of doing any good at all if you just believed in Christ and be saved?

It’s mainly the newer versions of the Bibles that have these erroneous translations, the older versions that stay truer to the Greek or Latin versions are correct in my opinion.
Reason suggests that we suffer the consequences of our action, hence why Christ came to preach about the way to live life. We should look to him to how we should live our life. But for various reasons, people across the world, especially in the older days were not privy to the ways of Christ, and were brought up in families who were of different faiths.

You can’t hold people at fault for something they had no control of. Being born in to a tribe unknown to the rest of the world in Papua New Guinea would mean you wouldn’t know of Jesus, so how could you be held responsible for not believing in Him? It’s just a pretty obvious deduction that it’s just your faith, but largely your actions that have everything to do with being saved or not, hence judgment day.

Gandhi would have been brought up with Hinduism, and that’s what he would have been comfortable with, however he did seem to have a very good grasp of what’s right or wrong, and he certainly lived that way too. It would be reprehensible to think that he’d go to hell after living a righteous life, and someone living an immoral life but believing in Christ anyways would go to heaven. It’s contrary to scripture.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Basically I’m in an discussion with an atheist, and they think God is jibberish. I have some questions which I have concern for. First I just want to say, when people say science is the answer for life it is. God created science which would explain life to us, and for some people they put aside faith since science is the ‘golden answer’. So believing god created science and that can only explain our mortal existence any shape or form considered wrong?

Anyways, why is Catholicism the ‘correct’ religion? Do people who reject our faith, still have a chance of getting into heaven? What would I say about the church being to political in the dark ages. I just want to know these for my own personal self. No point in arguing with them, seeing they think darwin is God.
What about people who are not baptized, can they go to heaven? Seeing that **atheists aren’t baptized. **Little kids sometimes die unfortunately while they are not baptized does this mean they go to hell?

Care to back these 2 statements up with any sort of facts?