“Denial of point #2” is not something I did. I have answered that kind of question so many times that it got old to hash it over again using the misunderstood word “gods”–but everything I wrote in response pointed straight to that, hoping that readers would actually identify from the scriptures I cited, that this was being taught by the Savior, by John, and by Paul–but of course that hope was a far-fetched hope.
My point is that many LDS on this forum always deny that there is any such belief in LDS doctrine. Personally, I don’t think any Catholics on this forum have any misunderstanding of the word ‘gods’. The greatest misunderstanding is over the difference between LDS belief in deification, and the Catholic belief of theosis. They’re completely different concepts. I’m pretty sure that at some point you were one of the LDS that was trying to say they were the same, by quoting CCC 460 as proof.
Nor was I attempting to divert the topic of conversation, but rather to amplify the conversation into the areas that, if ignored, mean there will be no real communication going on because one person is thinking in an entirely different frame of reference than the other person.
We’ve already discussed that LDS definitions of most of the common terms used in Christianity are completely different than those of Catholics, starting with our definitions of God. It’s hard to have any kind of meaningful dialogue without having an LDS dictionary of terms handy for translation.
I meant it, and I agree that it is sad. I really enjoyed it when JAVL participated in conversations when “listening to the Spirit” came up in the conversation, because he understood what was being talked about, and also understood the concept of charity, and didn’t keep trying to use reason and “carnal wisdom” to try and change minds.
I know you meant it. That’s the sad part, because you have no idea what you’re talking about when you say those things. You insinuate that Catholics depend on their reason and intellect alone, but nothing could be further from the truth.
Paul was teaching the concept in 1 Corinthians 2:14 that spiritual discernment is required to understand spiritual truths, and he taught that same concept in 1 Corinthians 3:2.
I wasn’t talking about the generality of “spiritually minded”–I was talking about the particular topic of becoming like Christ, and spiritually discerning what that means and what Christ meant when He prayed that His followers, through His atoning grace, would be able to be “one with Him and with His Father.” It is the deepest of spiritual topics, yet it is being discussed as though it can be clearly understood by the “carnal mind”–and it can’t and it won’t.
Becoming Christlike is a completely separate subject from the gift of the Holy Spirit known as ‘discernment of spirits’. We become more Christlike by following the teachings of Jesus. We use the ‘discernment of spirits’ to determine the validity of doctrines and teachings in order to know which are true, and which are not; to know who’s teaching correctly, and who isn’t. It happens to be one my own gifts of the Holy Spirit, and I use it just about every day. It’s always helped me, immensely.
So let’s see–you seem to not like the idea of people becoming educated?
I have no problem with people being educated for the right purposes, even though I never even finished high school. My comment refers to when the accumulation of earthly knowledge becomes an obsession, because it’s believed to be a means of gaining personal power (either in this world or the next), just for the sake of gaining that perceived power. In that case, it’s a complete waste of time and effort in a spiritual context, and only serves to feed someone’s ego. Pride kills the spirit.
As far as “powerful when they become gods”–that comment shows the complete lack of understanding just as would be expected in line with what Paul wrote. The “power of godliness” comes through faith, through charity (learning to love like Christ loves), through having hope in Christ, through learning to follow the guidance of the Holy Ghost without fail, through having love and gratitude in one’s heart all the time, and through understanding that free will choice is absolutely a governing principle in the universe, and thus any religious approach that decreases free will choice is not part of “godliness”.
Please, show me where Paul refers to the “power of godliness”. Since godliness = holiness, that seems an unlikely quote from him, because it doesn’t make any sense as a phrase pulled out of context. I couldn’t find it anywhere in the Bible, written by anyone. All holiness comes from following the true Word of God, Jesus Christ. Contrary to LDS belief, all Catholics follow what the Church teaches by their own free will, which they humbly submit to the Will of God.
That would be because of the teachings of the Savior and of Paul and of Peter, plus the continued teachings of modern-day prophets who teach the same principles–that “be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only.”
I’d never follow the teachings of anyone that contradicts the Word of God.
“Matter” and energy are interchangeable in the laws of physics. This, however, is once again an area since it is talking about a “spiritual” component of understanding a religious topic, that may not be well explained enough to be understood without the Holy Ghost bearing witness since that is one of the functions of the Holy Ghost.
This is a perfect example of the lack in understanding the difference between the spiritual and physical worlds in LDS thinking.
