Views on Mormonism?

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I’ll tell y’all a funny story about my mission. This happened in 1986 in the North Carolina Raleigh Mission. I was a zone leader assigned to Kinston. There were these two ladies in the ward, two elderly sisters whose parents had converted to the church. I forget their last name. One was a proper southern lady, impeccably dressed and gracious, with a slight blue tint to her hair (I also forget her first name); her sister, named Woody, was the antithesis of a proper southern lady. She preferred the backwoods, wore jeans, flannel shirts, and rubber boots, and drove a yellow toyota mini pickup with a flatbed. Woody would drive us to appointments in her truck when it wasn’t our turn to have the car and we didn’t have time to ride our bikes for 25 miles into the country. Her sister would feed us these amazing southern meals on such days in their well-preserved Victorian home. These two ladies really helped us out. Anyway, one day Woody wanted to come along with us to teach one of her backwoods acquaintences. Fine with us; it’s always better to have a member along when a non-member friend was being taught. It’s easier to convert them that way. Woody drove us to her friend’s (a man, btw) trailer and we proceeded to teach him the first discussion. About half way through, Woody stopped us and bore her testimony, mentioning that if he joined the church, one day he’d be a god with his own planet and have his own spirit children, making them with his wives! “Yessir, you can have lots of wives in the hereafter, too!”. LOL! My companion and I were freaked! Milk before meat, and that kind of thing. We weren’t freaked at what she was teaching, but instead that she blurted all of that out during the first discussion. She didn’t say anything that none of us missionaries or local members believed, it was just that she’d even said it in the first place. We NEVER told investigators those aspects of church teaching about the Celestial Kingdom. Needless to say, that Baptist pal of Woody’s just laughed and showed us the door. We were kind of bugged at Woody. That was the last time we had her along to bear her testimony to an investigator. Hysterically funny, in hindsight. Just as funny as another experience I had in Mt. Olive (you know, where Mt. Olive Pickles come from). We tracted into a nice Baptist couple who we taught and later baptized. Score! I visited a few years later and learned that the night we first knocked on their door, they had just come back from a Klan meeting with a trunk full of moonshine. LOL! I’m proud of that conversion.
 
PuerCuriosus,

Latter-day Saints believe both God the Father and Jesus Christ are “Alpha and Omega”.
My understanding of this statement is that God the Father is an Alpha and Omega and that Jesus Christ is an Alpha and Omega. So they are each an Alpha and Omega of their own earths?
 
I think it is clear from Latter-day Saint teachings that those who do share in becoming “one” with Jesus Christ will continue to worship Heavenly Father, and will never reach a point of not needing and wanting and expecting to worship Him, so that’s where my thoughts go when thinking about the kinds of things your last few comments explored.
That’s actually not clear at all. Or, to put it in your terms, if you define “clear” as “vague” or “opaque,” then, yes, it is certainly clear.
… it isn’t a settled doctrine one way or the other…
So it’s as “clear” as an unsettled doctrine. Got it.
… we don’t know enough about it to do more than speculate.
Again, totally clear. Like, you know, pure speculation. Clear like that.

I’d like to speak for everyone reading this thread, Parker, when I say that we’re all totally clear about what you’re saying.
 
My understanding of this statement is that God the Father is an Alpha and Omega and that Jesus Christ is an Alpha and Omega. So they are each an Alpha and Omega of their own earths?
Again, when you read this statement, you have to pull out the Wheel o’ Definitions from your Parker, The Game™ box. Then you put the phrase “Alpha and Omega” on the Wheel and give it a spin. It goes round and around and around and around, then it stops on something like, “not-really-a-beginning and a not-at-all-an-end.”

So Parker is right when he says that Mormons view God as the “Alpha and Omega.” They just, as usual, redefine those commonly-understood terms to mean the opposite of what everyone else thinks they mean.
 
That’s actually not clear at all. Or, to put it in your terms, if you define “clear” as “vague” or “opaque,” then, yes, it is certainly clear.

So it’s as “clear” as an unsettled doctrine. Got it.

Again, totally clear. Like, you know, pure speculation. Clear like that.

I’d like to speak for everyone reading this thread, Parker, when I say that we’re all totally clear about what you’re saying.
It’s as clear as mud to me. I don’t understand why anyone would have a problem seeing right through it.
 
Again, when you read this statement, you have to pull out the Wheel o’ Definitions from your Parker, The Game™ box. Then you put the phrase “Alpha and Omega” on the Wheel and give it a spin. It goes round and around and around and around, then it stops on something like, “not-really-a-beginning and a not-at-all-an-end.”

So Parker is right when he says that Mormons view God as the “Alpha and Omega.” They just, as usual, redefine those commonly-understood terms to mean the opposite of what everyone else thinks they mean.
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Newseeker,

Your sharing touches on my hesitancy of going into redundant explanations any more with these Mormons who come on with veiled arguments. St. Paul advises us not to get into empty or unproductive arguments.

And you don’t know the lurkers who come on here, their intentions, and what they are seeking. I hope people are truly seeking truth.
 
Hi, Cdrl2Grv,

This “Parkler: The Game ™ box” has been a real help … I had been struggling ever since I got on this thread to understand the vocablary - it seems to not one become inverted at the end of a thread - but, as I am finding … right in mid-sentence! The “Wheel” feature will make all of this so much less incomprehensible … 😃

Now, you must be careful… there is a real group called ‘Parker Brothers’ … 😃

But enough of my teasing … the idea of clarity being opacity is the kind of thing that would cause most people to stop and try to comtemplate just what has happened before they wind up just agreeing to things that systematically cange to something else. Seriously, I am amazed at how these folks can shift from one position (like plueral marriage) being a inspired requirement from God under pain of damnation to another where it is stopped so statehood can be accomplished. We are not talking about a discipline of the LDS organization - like the missionaries will dress neatly and walk in pairs when going house to house - but an actual dogma. My guess is that this would be like God giving the 10 Commandments to Moses and then Jeremiah saying they were not necessary!! :eek: Or, Christ saying that His Flesh is real food and it must be eaten if we are to have life in us and then Pope John Paul II saying this is not necessary!!

Because so much actual speculation is admitted up front, I am confident that if something changes then it can easily be seen that was once solid doctrine was really speculation and had to change with the times. Truly, I think it is time to identify just where the LDS thinks that Christ - the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity - is leading them. If it is not to Himself - then everything elses is truly smoke 'n mirrors! :eek:

God bless
Again, when you read this statement, you have to pull out the Wheel o’ Definitions from your Parker, The Game™ box. Then you put the phrase “Alpha and Omega” on the Wheel and give it a spin. It goes round and around and around and around, then it stops on something like, “not-really-a-beginning and a not-at-all-an-end.”

So Parker is right when he says that Mormons view God as the “Alpha and Omega.” They just, as usual, redefine those commonly-understood terms to mean the opposite of what everyone else thinks they mean.
 
Hi, Cdrl2Grv,
This “Parkler: The Game ™ box” has been a real help … I had been struggling ever since I got on this thread to understand the vocablary - it seems to not one become inverted at the end of a thread - but, as I am finding … right in mid-sentence! The “Wheel” feature will make all of this so much less incomprehensible … 😃
I have been saying this for years (and getting ripped for it) the mormon “church” is an ever-changing scam that changes it’s colors (and "doctrine) to meet the ever-changing needs of the Old Men in Salt Lake City to trim the sails of the organization to the winds of public pressure and to the needs of the organization to appear “relevant and mainstream” to the gullible public.
 
Hi, Rainman,

It is interesting that only 2/3 of the Trinity are mentioned here. Isn’t the Holy Spirit the Alpha and Omega, too? Of course, this was of saying it is awkward at best - maybe if we identify the Triune Godhead as the source for everthing - Alpha and Omega (Rev 1:8, 22:13) that may make more sense.

God bless
My understanding of this statement is that God the Father is an Alpha and Omega and that Jesus Christ is an Alpha and Omega. So they are each an Alpha and Omega of their own earths?
 
He will be deified, be tutored by God in the creation of worlds, will be given his own corner of the universe to manage, and will populate those worlds with his own spirit children created with my mom who will worship and glorify him, just as we worship and glorify our own Father in Heaven.
When I made a fuss about how only God deserves glory from any worship able-being the response I recieved was, “Why is it so important who gets the glory??”
And this from the mouths of successful RMs 😦
Those qualities are some of the major reasons for living this life with all its trials, sorrows, and difficulties that lead toward becoming more compassionate and more patient.
While I agree that this world teaches us to become more compassionate and more patient, I don’t see how a soul touched by sin can rise to the level of God - no matter how great the God-given attributes of compassion and patience are in an individual. We cannot be gods, because we are already in direct contradiction to the definition of God. God = ULTIMATE GOODNESS. To be God, one must NEVER be touched by sin, in any lifetime for that matter. One must exist out of time. In order to exist out of time you have to be eternal in BOTH directions! Which leads to…
…Latter-day Saints believe “I AM” is Jehovah, who is God the Son, Jesus Christ, the promised Messiah whom the Jewish leaders rejected when He lived on earth.

Latter-day Saints believe both God the Father and Jesus Christ are “Alpha and Omega”.
…When a Catholic says God is “I AM” we say that it was HE who started all of time and is the creator of ALL things seen and unseen (meaning even in the Mormon definition that NO ONE created HIM)

When a Catholic says He is the “Alpha and Omega” we literally mean there is NOTHING before God and NOTHING after Him. God is our everything. We cannot compare to that. You either need God for all eternity, or you don’t.
I think it is clear from Latter-day Saint teachings that those who do share in becoming “one” with Jesus Christ will continue to worship Heavenly Father, and will never reach a point of not needing and wanting and expecting to worship Him, so that’s where my thoughts go when thinking about the kinds of things your last few comments explored. I look at the concept of having “spirit children” as that they will worship Heavenly Father just as we do on this earth, but it isn’t a settled doctrine one way or the other how those relationships will be, and we don’t know enough about it to do more than speculate.
The problem I have with this is that there are absolutely NO MORMONS who feel inclined to worship the father of THEIR “Heavenly Father”. What happened to the god that was this world’s mormon god? No one mentions or gives reverence to him in any way. In fact, I’m sure it’d be BLASPHEMOUS in the mormon church to do this. With this thinking in mind, why would any modern mormon expect their spirit children to participate in any sort of worship toward God? It is very clear to the mormons of this world that the only one who deserves glory is the Heavenly Father. Not the Heavenly Grandfather.
It is interesting that only 2/3 of the Trinity are mentioned here. Isn’t the Holy Spirit the Alpha and Omega, too? Of course, this was of saying it is awkward at best - maybe if we identify the Triune Godhead as the source for everthing - Alpha and Omega (Rev 1:8, 22:13) that may make more sense.
To think of God in any lesser terms is mind boggling since He is by definition the GREATEST we can even KIND OF imagine. Separating the three persons of the Godhead is lessening their power seeing as how we must give credit to each of their respective roles INDIVIDUALLY.

For a while, I honestly thought it wouldn’t be bad to be a mormon because I love, love, LOVE their sense of community and family involvement…and those RM’s are quite cute 😛 but I’m still investigating how it’s possible to have an incomplete god as from what I’ve seen in mormon doctrine. This isn’t the God I’ve come to love and worship. This is a stranger I cannot talk to. For those of you who are mormon and wish to talk to me, please don’t feel as if I’ve only said these things to hurt you all. I promise…I’m just trying to seek truth and so far, the Catholic Church is the ONLY church that has withstood my researching and questioning and prodding and my PRAYING.

–Ryn

“Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ,
Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.” (Gal 1:3-5)
 
I thought these last few threads were about becoming gods.

Here is a quote from the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

**460 **The Word became flesh to make us “partakers of the divine nature”:“For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God.” “For the Son of God became man so that we might become God.” “The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods.”

Well, I must admit, that I have learned something here. I never knew the CCC said anything like this???:eek:

Does this mean the Catholic Church is in agreement with the LDS on this matter?
I am a little shocked myself. It is almost as if one is reading from The Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith. or, even from the KJV!!!

“Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.” (1 John 3:2)
 
Have you ever seen a commercial for the LDS church? They usually offer a free Bible. Why do they not offer a Book of Mormon or Doctrines and Covenants? We both know the answer.
Call your local LDS ward. I will guarentee you can get a free Book of Mormon with free delivery within a week.
 
Thirdly, I personally appreciate that position taken by the LDS organization concerning the sacredness of life and the principle that marriage is between one man and one woman. These basic Christian beliefs have been under enormous attack from those who would destroy them. The Mormons have, to the best of my knowledge, stood quite firm on these matters and supported others in this effort.
I am always glad to hear from those in this forum who agree we can and should work together in these matters. While going door to door to get support for Prop. 8 in California I always loved it when a came across a multi-generation household of Spanish speaking Catholics and even though I don’t speak Spanish, I knew I could count on their support.
 
Again on CCC460, our instructor guided us to clarify…we partake in divine grace but we are not gods.

God is sharing Christ with us in the reception of the Eucharist. Entering into divine life as a creature means that our own souls are nourished by the Tree of Life, the Eucharist, Who brings us into communion, the essence of the Holy Trinity.

In this Eucharistic communion with the Holy Trinity, we experience great peace and see more and more life around us through the eyes of Christ. We do not respond as gods to this communion, but as servants.

CCC460 is speaking of sanctifying grace…our soul fused with sanctifying grace but never made gods…and if you study the footnotes, as St Thomas Aquinas, his comments were taken from his treatise on the Eucharist.

The Mormons do not care about the footnotes or the entire passage, just a phrase without context and meaning, except through their beliefs…
 
Kathleen,
Why didn’t the Pope rewrite CCC 460 to be less confusing,
unless it actually says what he wants it to say .; )

Why are you so ashamed of your own doctrine?
 
Kathleen,
Why are you so ashamed of your own doctrine?
Neither she nor we, are ashamed of our doctrine. We have no need to be. Catholic doctrine does not change with the wind or with time. Our doctrine does not change from Pope to Pope, as mormon doctrine changes from “prophet” to prophet or circumstance to circumstance. What was taught by Jesus Christ Himself and by His Apostles, is still taught by His (Catholic)Church today. mormon “doctrine” has been “in development” since 1830 and will likely continue to change.
 
from the 13 Articles of Faith on mormon.org

#11
Code:
We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
This would be an admirable view that Mormons hold.
 
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