Views on Mormonism?

[h2001st]

Just for the record, Joseph Smith died when he was 38.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Mtolympus,

I hope Mwok does not object … but, I did a bit of research in answer to you questions - and have a link that answers them quite well.

Here is the link: catholic.com/tracts/mormonisms-baptism-for-the-dead

God bless

Do you have a reference for your quote?

In these two translations, Paul pointed out that baptism for the dead is evidence for the truthfulness of the reserrection:

KJV: Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? Why are they then baptized for the dead? (1 Cor. 15:29)

NIV: Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptised for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all why are people baptised for them? (1 Cor. 15:29)

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Mtolympus,

Actually, I was hoping that when you returned to post 773 that you would comment on it - and the fact that this post exposes a major omission in what was previously presented.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

God bless

Hi tqualey,

Yes, post #773 is an excellent post. I believe that gives an acurate statement (including the statement in red) on the LDS position on abortion. I think we agree that we disagree.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Avila22,

Welcome to CAF! Let me compliment you on an excellent post!

Yes, ‘New Age’ has a way of popping up in not only various places - but, in various time periods, too! But, I guess calling it ‘Old Age’ would have gotten a lot of inquires from people looking for the Social Security Administration…

God bless

Monotheism doesn’t mean BEING one, it means one God. Being One is a new-agey concept designed to deceive people into believing that all world religions are exactly the same, and that all hold the same truth. You are doing a wonderful job of proving that Mormonism and Catholicism (which purport to be the SAME religion per yourself) are not in the least the same. You have, not for the first time clearly, contradicted yourself. Also, as was pointed out above, your views are illogical in the philosophical sense. I can’t fault you for that, there have been no great Mormon philosophers, while the Catholic church has a rich philosophical tradition. (NOT Greek, just building from it.) I would encourage you to study the principles of logic before attempting to sell arguments that make no sense and are really just a bunch of strung-together pseudo-theological five-dollar fancy words that hide the emptiness of the arguments themselves.
If you want Oneness and Unity and Being One, why not just join the New Age movement? That is what most of your posts have sounded like to me, anyway, Just being honest, man.

 

[Tony888]

Hi, Mtolympus,

Actually, I was hoping that when you returned to post 773 that you would comment on it - and the fact that this post exposes a major omission in what was previously presented.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

God bless

That is not correct
In Post 678, I linked to my source on LDS.org
I also referenced a 1973 response to Roe vs. Wade, that clarified the LDS position in terms of rape, incest, etc…

There was no major omission.

 

[blueadept]

That is not correct
In Post 678, I linked to my source on LDS.org
I also referenced a 1973 response to Roe vs. Wade, that clarified the LDS position in terms of rape, incest, etc…

There was no major omission.

Post 773 references the policy as stated in the CHI (at least as stated in the 2003 copy I believe). It 's similar to what’s in the current CHI.

As you have stated before, LDS.org is not necessarily the authoritive final word on an issue. I tend to trust what’s stated in Post 773 since that comes from the CHI and what the bishop’s use in guiding their members.

My 2 cents

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Tony888,

So, let me get this straight …

In #678 you identify that human life is a gift of God and elective abortions are contrary to the will of God… but, you only ‘may’ lose church membership.

In #773 the full text is given where elective abortion will be tolerated.

And, you do not see this as a major omission. OK. I can tell when superior argumentation back up with flawless logic just wins over the opposition… So, the Mormon position is crystal clear - abortion is almost close to being wrong!

Honest, Tony888, you will have to do better than this. Even in #678 you identify that human life is a gift of God - but, one that - if you trash it - may result in a negative penalty only involving church membership. Hey, now old Joe Smith was quick to point out that damnation was the consequence for not having multiple wives. The way I see it, there appears to be a mojor disconnect in what has been presented.

Oh, I don’t want you to feel left out … I would appreciate you going to this link and letting us know what your response is specific to defending ‘baptism for the dead’. This link, while not supportive of that position, does go into great detail on why it is a flawed teaching - and one not really consistent with the earlier Joe Smith approach. Looking forward to hearfing for you on this. Here is the link: catholic.com/tracts/mormo…m-for-the-dead

God bless

That is not correct
In Post 678, I linked to my source on LDS.org
I also referenced a 1973 response to Roe vs. Wade, that clarified the LDS position in terms of rape, incest, etc…

There was no major omission.

 

[blueadept]

In #773 the full text is given where elective abortion will be tolerated.

I would say that the correct spirit of #773 it should be “…abortion ‘may’ be tolerated.”

You referenced the full-text that’s stated in the CHI. I’m surprised Tony only gave the watered-down version that’s at LDS.org.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Blueadept,

Thank you for the correction.

God bless

I would say that the correct spirit of #773 it should be “…abortion ‘may’ be tolerated.”

You referenced the full-text that’s stated in the CHI. I’m surprised Tony only gave the watered-down version that’s at LDS.org.

 

[blueadept]

For our LDS friends in regards to Joseph Smith’s polygamous marriages, ‘Do you believe he consumated any of those marriages?’

Does it matter to you, as a member, if he did or did not?

The reason I ask is that I’m of the opinion that most members believe that Joseph Smith did not consumate these ‘sealings’, but we will see.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Blueadept,

I am a little fuzzy on this ‘sealings’ thing… but, what possible difference does it make if Smith did or did not consumate any or all of the marriage he had?

It is a little late for this, isn’t it?

God bless

For our LDS friends in regards to Joseph Smith’s polygamous marriages, ‘Do you believe he consumated any of those marriages?’

Does it matter to you, as a member, if he did or did not?

The reason I ask is that I’m of the opinion that most members believe that Joseph Smith did not consumate these ‘sealings’, but we will see.

 

[blueadept]

Hi, Blueadept,

I am a little fuzzy on this ‘sealings’ thing… but, what possible difference does it make if Smith did or did not consumate any or all of the marriage he had?

It is a little late for this, isn’t it?

God bless

We will see how the LDS respond before I answer that. Since there isn’t any proof that Joseph Smith had any siblings from any of these marriages, I believe they have a certain perspective as to role of these sealings as presented by Joseph Smith. He is obviously an important figure for them and there is normally a major disconnect in the way members and non-members view him. I’m just trying to confirm their viewpoint before exploring the issue further …

 

[Michelle_G_55]

I haven’t been on for awhile since my daughter baptized into the mormon faith.I would really appreciate it if an ex-mormon would answer my questions that I may have, truthfully. I know I can go on web sites but I don’t know what to believe. I have read your post on marriage. When I asked my daughter, she could not tell me the answer to the question about the sealing. She said that she would have to go to the bishop for those answers. She also said that the majority of converted mormons were catholic. Why???
I would also like to know what does the mormon faith promise these converts that the catholic faith does not?? She started off by living with a mormon family, the next thing we knew was that she was being baptized. Did they guilt her into this because they opened their home to her. The reason for the hospitality was because she would be closer to work. Now that she has done her conversion, it seemed that they couldn’t wait for her to get an apartment of her own. Also, we were told that now that she is a mormon, she will not be single for long. They want single mormons for be married asap. Because of this, she now has to go to “church” a half an hour to forty five minutes away to a mormon church for singles.

I am so confused. I would ask her these questions but I’m sure she would sugar coat it.

I apologize if I’m not posting this where it should be. Perhaps someone can direct me for the next time.

Have a blessed day and a blessed Thanksgiving.

P.S. if there is anything else that I should know about this faith, feel free to tell me all.

 

[Tony888]

Hi Michelle,
Obviously you should take my response with a grain of salt, since I also converted to LDS

• I’ve seen no statistics on where the converts come from. My own experience shows a normal mix of Catholics, Protestant, and others. It also goes both ways, with ex-LDS becoming devout Catholics or Evangelicals
• Conversion is an individual thing and hard to stereotype on what your daughter’s motivation was. Just ask her to explain, and try not to make her defensive.
• Look on the bright side, if she did it out of ‘guilt,’ now that she is living alone she will have more freedom to reconsider, if God wills it.
• Yes, there is an expectation that single young adults should be married, hence the singles wards.

I urge you to speak frankly but kindly with your daughter. She needs her mother whatever awaits her and this should not become a separation wedge between you.

 

[Tony888]

I would say that the correct spirit of #773 it should be “…abortion ‘may’ be tolerated.”

You referenced the full-text that’s stated in the CHI. I’m surprised Tony only gave the watered-down version that’s at LDS.org.

Hey blueadept,
This thread isn’t on Abortion. I qucikly answered an offshoot question AND I LINKED to my source material. I stand by my original post. Naturally, If I had known it would turn into an inquisition, I would have either not replied, or done so in greater depth…

tqualey,
Since burning at the stake is no longer a viable religious reprimand, what is left but being kicked out of your Church? What do the Catholics do to a member who participates in an Abortion?

 

[blueadept]

I urge you to speak frankly but kindly with your daughter. She needs her mother whatever awaits her and this should not become a separation wedge between you.

When children convert away from their parents faith, especially when it’s Mormonism, the wedge unfortunately exists. The Temple ceremony and requirement that all be worthy members to attend doesn’t help matters.

I gave Michelle some suggestions in a PM that may help though so that she will be able to best address this.

 

[blueadept]

What do the Catholics do to a member who participates in an Abortion?

In old days, it would be grounds for ex-communication.

In today’s time, it’s obviously a Mortal Sin and they’ve separated themselves from God. Not a good present state for sure.

 

[mtolympus]

Hi, Mtolympus,

Actually, I was hoping that when you returned to post 773 that you would comment on it - and the fact that this post exposes a major omission in what was previously presented.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

God bless

Hi tqualey

I did comment on it. That is what we believe. I’m not interested in arguing about whose set of moral standards are the best. If I keep my LDS standards and you keep your Catholic standards the world will be a better place than if we don’t.

 

[KathleenGee]

I met a woman who left Utah because of the squiring she saw directed at her 16 year old daughter. I didn’t move there because I heard they would go after my daughters to get them married in their religion…and of course, as a parent, I would not be allowed to attend the temple sealing ceremony…

 

[mtolympus]

In old days, it would be grounds for ex-communication.

In today’s time, it’s obviously a Mortal Sin and they’ve separated themselves from God. Not a good present state for sure.

Apparently, the LDS are not the only ones who have seen some changes in their teachings!