Views on Mormonism?

[zaffiroborant]

I realize the correct understanding of the LDS faith is that Easter is celebrated every Sunday but it falls short as compared to the Catholic experience.

I was taught that Easter is celebrated every Sunday by the Catholic Church, with every Sunday being a Feast Day.

 

[Tony888]

Woww, somebody has a chip on their shoulder
It’s a bit rude to stereotype everyone because you may have had a bad experience.

The only reason Mormons associate with “gentiles” in any way is to convert them. I’m sure your LDS wife assumed that you would convert to Mormonism. When you did not, she dumped you. That is how Mormons deal with non-Mormons. If a Mormon befriends you, it is only because she wants to convert you. Once she realizes you will not convert, she will drop you like a hot rock. There is no such thing as a “Mormon friend”. There is only a Mormon who has targeted you for conversion.

The technique is known officially as “friendshipping” - making friends with someone to lure them into the LDS church.

Among young Mormons, it is known as “date’ em and dunk 'em”. If you will not convert, the Mormon will move on to the next prospect. If you convert, the Mormon will move on to the next prospect.

Hi-ho.

 

[meltzerboy]

Okay, I hung with the Mormons and was involved with them for nearly a year about 26 years ago.
Let me state, first off, doctrinal disagreements aside,
you’d be hard-pressed to find a kinder or sweeter bunch of people, generally-
speaking (there are a few exceptions, of course, which is only to be expected).
They have many outreaches to help people, such as Relief Society.
They fast weekly and donate the cost of two missed meals, or more,
for feeding the hungry and poor. For their own church members, and even just non-LDS visitors, their parish churches (“wards”) have employment-finding services to help unemployed people be able to make a living again. These people are lovable and have
many genuine, good virtues.
Doctrinally, they believe that Jesus of Nazareth was indeed the promised Messiah of the Jews and conceived by God (but not by “the Holy Ghost”, whom they believe is a real person, but do not define Him the same way mainstream Christians do.), and that Jesus’s death is the atonement for our sins and that His resurrection is the guarantee of our own.
Where they diverge from historic Christianity is that they believe that God
the Father has a resurrected body of flesh and bone and “as man is, God once was.”
They also believe, although it’s not talked about all that often, that God the Father
has a literal wife (our heavenly mother), and that all of us who have ever lived on earth,
were first born in heaven as their spirit-offspring. There was a Great Council held in Heaven, and Jehovah volunteered to come to earth as a man. This outraged Lucifer, and he rebelled. A war broke out in heaven. Those of us who have been born in bodies on earth were those spirit sons in our previous lives in heaven, who sided with Heavenly Father and Jehovah (who would later come to earth as Jesus, born of holy Mary).
We come to earth to get a body, to experience growth, failure and success, and to begin the process of Eternal Progression, by which we marry, which marriages are sealed in a LDS temple for time AND eternity.
Our bodies will all one day be resurrected, and depending on our individual degrees of faithfulness and progression, we will inherit one of three kingdoms:
the Telestial Kingdom, the Terrestrial Kingdom, or the Celestial Kingdom.
Only those few who have willfully committed the Unpardonable Sin will be barred from one of these Kingdoms. Thus, most people will be saved. However, baptism is necessary for salvation for all people, without exception, and since billions have died over the milleniums without being baptized, worthy Mormons practice vicarious baptism or “baptisms for the dead,” as part of their Temple work. In this way, they believe that every LDS member helps contribute to the salvation of everyone else.
I hope I remembered everything pretty much correctly. There is a lot more to it than that,
but that’s the “gist” as best as I remember it.
Love,
Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+

I read on another thread in this Forum that Mormon baptism is not regarded as valid in Catholicism because Mormonism does not believe in the Trinity in the traditional way, which is based on three non-separate persons. Is that correct?

 

[mwok]

:twocents::twocents:

The only reason Mormons associate with “gentiles” in any way is to convert them. I’m sure your LDS wife assumed that you would convert to Mormonism. When you did not, she dumped you. That is how Mormons deal with non-Mormons. If a Mormon befriends you, it is only because she wants to convert you. Once she realizes you will not convert, she will drop you like a hot rock. There is no such thing as a “Mormon friend”. There is only a Mormon who has targeted you for conversion.

The technique is known officially as “friendshipping” - making friends with someone to lure them into the LDS church.

Among young Mormons, it is known as “date’ em and dunk 'em”. If you will not convert, the Mormon will move on to the next prospect. If you convert, the Mormon will move on to the next prospect.

Hi-ho.

ummm, yeah. I’m gonna hafta go ahead and disagree with you there…I have a friend who is a co-worker and a Mormon and although he has shared his faith in his religion he didn’t defriend me when I made it clear that I would never leave the Catholic Church, much less join the LDS. Plus, I think the tactic you described could be used by all religions.

 

[ParkerD]

To Walnutleviosa:

If you think in Biblical terms such as “joint heir with Christ” (Romans 8:17) and “ruler over many things” (Matthew 25:21) or “rule over the nations” (Revelation 2:26, 27) and “have dominion” (Genesis 1:28) and “enter thou into the joy of thy Lord” (Matthew 25:21) and “be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father in which is in heaven is perfect” (Matthew 5:48) including the faith of a grain of mustard seed that can “move a mountain” (Matthew 17:20)–

and let the words be literal instead of thinking those phrases don’t mean what they say–

then at least you will be able to gain the perspective that Latter-day Saints have a Biblical basis for believing that Jesus Christ, through His atoning grace and the love extended by Him and by Heavenly Father, really does offer to humankind the possibility to be trusted that much by Him and by Heavenly Father, to do those things in the hereafter, many centuries from now, that seem so unreachable to us here in this life given our current conditions.

The central needs for gaining that kind of perspective are feeling love for God and love for others just as the Bible teaches, with real deep-down unselfishness, and having faith in God that grants that He can indeed do anything, even with us–bringing us to a place “whose builder and maker is God”. (Hebrews 11:10, 16)

'Wishing you peace and joy.

 

[mwok]

But ParkerD,

the created cannot become the Creator.

 

[Tony888]

I read on another thread in this Forum that Mormon baptism is not regarded as valid in Catholicism because Mormonism does not believe in the Trinity in the traditional way, which is based on three non-separate persons. Is that correct?

Correct,
Here is a simplification which is fairly accurate:

• The LDS believe in three seperate beings united in one purpose
• The RCC believe in three seperate persons unitied in one being

 

[bren19]

If you look at the teachings of Joseph Smith you can see that a lot of his beliefs don’t match up well with the Bible and are crazy when compared to mainstream christianity.

Anyone who does not believe that Jesus CHrist is the Son of God and died for our sins and was resurrected from the dead is NOT a "Christ"ian.

Very simple.

 

[ParkerD]

But ParkerD,

the created cannot become the Creator.

mwok,

I understand that there exists the belief that God cannot do what He said He could do and would do, but that is part of the territory we are in–to not believe Him, but it’s not a voice I try to listen to.

Peace.

 

[ParkerD]

Anyone who does not believe that Jesus CHrist is the Son of God and died for our sins and was resurrected from the dead is NOT a "Christ"ian.

Very simple.

Bren19,

Latter-day Saints believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, literally, and died for our sins, literally, and was resurrected from the dead, literally, and lives today, literally.

Peace.

 

[zaffiroborant]

mwok,

I understand that there exists the belief that God cannot do what He said He could do and would do, but that is part of the territory we are in–to not believe Him, but it’s not a voice I try to listen to.

Peace.

No one here holds that belief.

 

[jediliz]

Misguided individuals who believe that Joseph Smith, who dabbled in free masonry, “restored” the original christian church. And supposedly received a bunch of gold plates that contained a new testament of Jesus on them.

They believe the church went into apostasy for what, 1600 years? That doesn’t make sense…its clear that Christ would never abandon his Church. That’s why he appointed a leader. That’s why the apostles needed SUCCESSORS.

Also, not sure if its still a belief, but think they can become gods of their own planets. And again, not sure if they still believe it, but I read that they Believe that Mary conceived Jesus the “old fashioned way” but that may have changed. (God came down and had sex with Mary is what I read!)

Believe that jesus and satan are brothers. Now this part is DEFINITELY bad! satan is a fallen angel. Jesus is GOD!!

I have asked time and time again What was the EXACT year of the so called apostasy…but no one can give me an answer other than “after the last apostle died”. Sorry, but there were still Christians for hundreds of years following their deaths and the apostles themselves had followers that were appointed bishops, etc. All but one apostle was martyred. John was the only one that died naturally. probably because he was writing the Book of Revelation.

Jesus would never abandon his Church!

 

[blueadept]

The only reason Mormons associate with “gentiles” in any way is to convert them. I’m sure your LDS wife assumed that you would convert to Mormonism. When you did not, she dumped you. That is how Mormons deal with non-Mormons. If a Mormon befriends you, it is only because she wants to convert you. Once she realizes you will not convert, she will drop you like a hot rock. There is no such thing as a “Mormon friend”. There is only a Mormon who has targeted you for conversion.

The technique is known officially as “friendshipping” - making friends with someone to lure them into the LDS church.

Among young Mormons, it is known as “date’ em and dunk 'em”. If you will not convert, the Mormon will move on to the next prospect. If you convert, the Mormon will move on to the next prospect.

Hi-ho.

While I don’t care for your ‘bad spin’ on this, I’m fairly positive my wife will be sure WHEN she remarries that her new hubby IS dunked prior to getting married while I continue to honor my marriage vows regardless of her actions.

Obviously one is right and the other one is wrong on this issue as we both continue to follow Christ in our lives.

 

[Marie5890]

I read on another thread in this Forum that Mormon baptism is not regarded as valid in Catholicism because Mormonism does not believe in the Trinity in the traditional way, which is based on three non-separate persons. Is that correct?

Meltzerboy,

Yes that is correct. They don’t believe in the Trinity.
They believe in three separate god of what they call the god head.

The Father —whom they identify as Elohim of the OT is an exalted and perfected man whom achieve godhood. They see him as the literal spirit father of all human beings (and yes they believe there is a/are heavenly mother(s) , as well as all the angels, which they believe are not a complete and different kind of species

They also believe that the fallen angels are those spirit children who rebelled against the father’s plan and followed Lucifer…whom is also one of the father’s spirit children and hence a brother to all of us as well as Jesus. So when you hear that Mormons believe that Satan and Jesus are spirit brothers, this is what they are referring to. In terms of spirit brothers and sisters, we are all considered spirit offspring of the father, which includes Jesus and Satan.

They teach what is known as the “Plan of Salvation”. In the pre-existance there was a war in heaven with the spirit children. The father asked “whom shall I send”. Lucifer (Satan) said “send me and I will make sure not one (human being) is lost.(ie he would deny them free will and force them to obey).” He went on to say “surely I will do this so give me the glory”.

Jesus, the oldest of all of the Father’s spirit children (whom they claim is Jehovah of the OT and was his premortal name) stood up and said." Send me and all the glory be thine"

So the rest of the spirit children (you, me, all who have ever lived, all who will live etc) chose sides between these two of brothers (so yes they believe that Satan is also our spirit brother as well). Those who followed Jehovah are those who have come to earth (or will yet come) and attained a body.

Those who chose to follow Lucifer became the fallen angels. (they use the phrase, “did not keep their first estate”…and are denied bodies for all eternity.

Then there is the Holy Ghost…A spirit brother of all of us who has yet to get his mortal body.

So you see, that is why their baptism is not seen as valid. They have a completely different view of God at the very core. It is this reason that many claim they are not Christian. Because of their view of what they deem is the real nature of the “god head”

 

[truthsave]

To whoever wants to know more about mormonism this is the best thing I can say: don’t search in mormon site, don’t search in anti mormon site. Nevertheless any neutral site would be more or less anti mormon since the historical and scientific evidence of their believs is difficult to support.

would say look at the fruits. Not the average fruits, but the best fruits. Best mormons can be educated people, sometimes arrogant in their beliefs as each one of us, clean, social, with strong family and social value.

Look at their prophets lives, starting from Joseph Smith, to the latest, that should be their best fruits, then compare with some Christian Saints as St. Francis, St. Seraphim, St. Antony the Great, St. Therese of Liseux just to say few. (Catholics or Orthodox doesn’t really matter).
Then you will realize you have a good example of humanity (for mormon prophets) and this with something more, something that is not material, something…something that if you are not just a critic is easy to feel and see in the lives of Christians Saints.

I have converted to Christianity few years ago and I felt it. Maybe you will fell it too.
Talking about different way of seeing things is just… a good menthal sport.

 

[bz5]

I think the Mormons are pretty fascinating. The ones I know are generally very nice and sincere, share many of our moral teachings, and it’s great that they promote a culture that gets all those young men out there as missionaries. Imagine if we did the same!

However, they’re not just a social club. They are teaching about God, and it’s important to know what’s true. Though they use many words from the Bible and church history, they often have very different meanings. Their theology is fairly detailed, though when you point things out to them that are unBiblical or completely illogical (and there’s SO MUCH that is) they will always fall back to “Well, that must be one of the places where the Bible is mistranslated,” or they’ll trust gut “feelings” over logic (as if their feelings that their religion is right must be correct while everyone’s else’s deep convictions and feelings aren’t?)

As someone pointed out, history is not their friend. You could go back and forth forever with them on theological points, but it all falls apart at the great apostasy. If Christ’s church did not, in fact, all but disappear in the first century or soon after, if the first church was not Mormon, then there was nothing to restore! History is clear: the first church was Catholic, and the only argument against that is a huge conspiracy theory.

Again, they are often truly nice people with a focus on family, and if they’re trying to convert you, they are probably very sincere. If you are not knowledgeable about your own faith, do not engage them. They get converts among people searching for stability, love, a moral life, not by starting out with “Would you like to be a god of your own planet?” or some of their other more bizarre beliefs.

 

[mtolympus]

While I don’t care for your ‘bad spin’ on this, I’m fairly positive my wife will be sure WHEN she remarries that her new hubby IS dunked prior to getting married while I continue to honor my marriage vows regardless of her actions.

Obviously one is right and the other one is wrong on this issue as we both continue to follow Christ in our lives.

I am sure much of your experience being married to an LDS wife was very painful, yet you show no bitterness. You also seem to give a very fair assesment of your understanding of LDS teachings. In my opinion, you are a true Christian in every sense of the word.

 

[blueadept]

I am sure much of your experience being married to an LDS wife was very painful, yet you show no bitterness. You also seem to give a very fair assesment of your understanding of LDS teachings.

The only painful part (besides the ending) for us was blending the two families and dealing with all of the different personalities as well as combining parenting styles. That was honestly painful. We were respectful of each other’s faiths and encouraged each other. While I encouraged her to go to the Temple as often as she could, I know it was painful for her to listen to all the talks in her meetings about all the blessings that are received in the Temple. I sort of mark the beginning to the end of my marriage when she was estatic in finally finishing the Temple work for her Catholic grandfather that she loved very much but she got angry with me when I asked her not to share that type of info with me. Oh my, that didn’t go over well even though I tried to explain that I truly understood that her grandfather could reject or accept the Temple work done for him. Oh my. All you can do is to move on.

In my opinion, you are a true Christian in every sense of the word.

Thanks for the kind thought.

 

[JonNC]

Both Mormons and Protestants, when they do use crosses, prefer to use
empty crosses and not crucifixes, to thus emphasize the resurrection instead.
Love,
Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+

Just a correction, Lutherans often use/wear crucifixes.

Carry on.

Jon

 

[mtolympus]

I cannot wrap my mind around some of their beliefs. Comments?

Do you mean what we really believe? Or are you referring to more sensational or speculative items which are usually emphasied in non-LDS writtings.

If you look at the teachings of Joseph Smith you can see that a lot of his beliefs don’t match up well with the Bible and are crazy when compared to mainstream christianity.

It is hard to answer a charge that is so general. Let me know what you believe using the Bible and I will try to explain what we believe on the same subject also using the Bible.