Views on Mormonism?

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As a Mormon I would say Miriam1947’s description does not describe my belief regarding baptism for the dead. I think it mischaracterizes the belief perhaps similar to the way you might feel when people slander relics in the Catholic Church.

In general I find the Mormon belief a very inclusive not exclusive practice that broadens a practitioner’s sense of connection to the entire human family across all boundaries. It builds empathy across barriers of time. It celebrates the justice and mercy of God. It is a manifestation of the strength of their belief in the resurrection for all who have ever lived and also the value of every soul.

It is not about turning other people’s ancestors into Mormons or even accuracy or efficiency in accomplishing the task…that’s not the point or they would go about it very differently.

The nuanced Mormon understanding of the afterlife is also not the stark Heaven/Hell divide of most of Christianity, although that imagery is also in uniquely Mormon scripture as well. The Mormon afterlife is described in terms of degrees of light and levels within levels. There will be a place for everyone and all will have the ability to choose according to their willingness to receive that light and the mercy of Christ.
This is a fair representation of the LDS faith. I’ve always viewed Catholicism as an inclusive faith as well. It’s too bad my LDS wife and I could make our marriage work though. She stated the irreconcilable difference was religion. Of course, she wanted a LDS Temple-worthy husband and it was apparent that I wouldn’t do that in this life time.
 
This is a fair representation of the LDS faith. I’ve always viewed Catholicism as an inclusive faith as well. It’s too bad my LDS wife and I could make our marriage work though. She stated the irreconcilable difference was religion. Of course, she wanted a LDS Temple-worthy husband and it was apparent that I wouldn’t do that in this life time.
Didn’t she know you were Catholic before you married?
 
Didn’t she know you were Catholic before you married?
Back then, I was a clueless Catholic who got challenged by the LDS missionaries and my wife shortly after getting married. I told her I needed to figure out what I was leaving before I could give her any serious consideration about converting. I’m sure she thought the truth would eventually win. I went back and learned my faith in RCIA and fell in love with it. She cooperated with the annulment process with our previous marriages and had our marriage blessed in the RCC. After that, I became an on-fire Catholic. I don’t believe this is quite what she was hoping for and I credit my LDS wife for me embracing my faith like I do. 👍
 
Back then, I was a clueless Catholic who got challenged by the LDS missionaries and my wife shortly after getting married. I told her I needed to figure out what I was leaving before I could give her any serious consideration about converting. I’m sure she thought the truth would eventually win. I went back and learned my faith in RCIA and fell in love with it. She cooperated with the annulment process with our previous marriages and had our marriage blessed in the RCC. After that, I became an on-fire Catholic. I don’t believe this is quite what she was hoping for and I credit my LDS wife for me embracing my faith like I do. 👍
Sounds like she was right. The truth won.
 
As a Mormon I would say Miriam1947’s description does not describe my belief regarding baptism for the dead. I think it mischaracterizes the belief perhaps similar to the way you might feel when people slander relics in the Catholic Church.

In general I find the Mormon belief a very inclusive not exclusive practice that broadens a practitioner’s sense of connection to the entire human family across all boundaries. It builds empathy across barriers of time. It celebrates the justice and mercy of God. It is a manifestation of the strength of their belief in the resurrection for all who have ever lived and also the value of every soul.

It is not about turning other people’s ancestors into Mormons or even accuracy or efficiency in accomplishing the task…that’s not the point or they would go about it very differently.

The nuanced Mormon understanding of the afterlife is also not the stark Heaven/Hell divide of most of Christianity, although that imagery is also in uniquely Mormon scripture as well. The Mormon afterlife is described in terms of degrees of light and levels within levels. There will be a place for everyone and all will have the ability to choose according to their willingness to receive that light and the mercy of Christ.
How are levels of somewhere called heaven when God is not present? Isn’t heaven where God is and the whole Christian belief based on Jesus who has recocnciled us to the Father, in order that our life in the world to come is lived with God?

Separation from God is the very definition of hell. Either your are with God or you are not. You can’t be kind of sort of with God. Jesus explained very well, the sheep are separated from the goats…two groups of people. Nothing in there about any other group or places for those groups to live separate from God and be called His.
 
Since burning at the stake is no longer a viable religious reprimand, what is left but being kicked out of your Church? What do the Catholics do to a member who participates in an Abortion?
The Catholic Church does not kick women out who have abortions. The Church has a huge network of support for post-abortive women. The church recognizes that,as human beings, we are sinners who need to repent and choose to follow the Gospel daily. Any sinner is welcomed. The Pope himself is a sinner. We don’t deify our leaders, which is why we are surviving the sex abuse scandal. “Holy men and women” as we refer to our religious, are still entirely human. There was only one divine human - Christ himself. Even the greatest saint was a sinner - in fact, St. Francis explained that God chose him because he was the greatest wretch ever born, and he wasn’t lying or being dramatic. He meant it! The more serious the sin, the more the repentant sinner will love God and be loyal forever (see parables for more evidence). I would (again, as I did above) challenge you to study logic and also, please, check your information!
 
I have spent a lot of time with my Mormon relatives in the US. Tow of them are Bishops (local ministers/pastors) and found them very faithful to their beliefs. Their "congregations were very welcoming to me. We even engaged in a bit of friendly teasing and banter from to time. The thing that ultimately shocked me was the absolute refusal to question their beliefs or discuss any alternatives. I was not trying to convert them, just asking if they ever had any doubts about LDS.
 
In general I find the Mormon belief a very inclusive not exclusive practice that broadens a practitioner’s sense of connection to the entire human family across all boundaries…
The nuanced Mormon understanding of the afterlife is also not the stark Heaven/Hell divide of most of Christianity, although that imagery is also in uniquely Mormon scripture as well. The Mormon afterlife is described in terms of degrees of light and levels within levels…
This is another New Age reference. While exclusivity and closed-mindedness are silly (what can be feared from questions and exploration), being too “inclusive” is another way of saying “Truth is relative.” And truth is absolute, not relative. Something is true, or it is not. As for the “stark Heaven/Hell divide,” and the “levels of light” - sorry to sound like a broken record, but this is New Age as well. Blurring the lines between Heaven and Hell, trying to find alternative choices for afterlife…it sort of insinuates that there are choices for Good or Evil or Other. There is no Other! It’s either Good (Heaven, presence of God, eternal jubilation) or it’s Evil (Hell, eternal separation from God). And degrees of light? Levels within levels? I’m just waiting for you to talk about spirit guides and astral planes. Are there Mormon people who have had mystical visits to any of the afterlife choices? Because there are several DOZEN Catholics who have seen and/or visited Heaven and Hell. It’s pretty interesting material, actually. I would start with reading Padre Pio. No mention is made of any Kolob or spirit children, sadly…
 
Hi, Stokemeister,

Welcome to CAF 🙂 We are both a long way from California … but, I would like to express my appreciation and gratitude for the cooperative work done by the LDS group and the many others groups along with the Catholic Church that supported the marriage amendment (Prop 8). I think this was nothing short of a heroic effort - and because of the deceit of elected officials, the will of the voters has been delayed. More work needs to be done - and it looks like it will be now done in the courts. 🙂

By the way, for the actual teaching of the Catholic Church concerning relics, this is an authorative source: scborromeo.org/ccc/p2s2c4a1.htm For an overall understanding of how Catholics view relics you may want to look at this: newadvent.org/cathen/12734a.htm. No reason to have any misinformation going around, eh?

If you look back on the various posts of this thread, there has been a recurrent theme of LDS members stating one item, but LDS website material stating something quite different. This element is then superimposed on top of changing doctrines ( 3 examples:multiple wives is required or damnation vs one wife is OK. Blacks not being welcomed into the church vs Blacks are OK. LDS members trying to convert others with a ‘sugar-coated’ version of the actual doctrine taught. ). So, your presentation seems to fit right in - one members view that may not really be consistent with the actual teaching of the LDS organization - at least not what has been presented so far on this thread.

As I see it, LDS teachings are problematic for one major reason - there are numerous contradictions with the teachings Christ gave as recorded in the Bible. ‘Baptism of the dead’ is really just an example of this. A larger set of issues orbit around the role of Christ in the Salvation of mankind. Catholics (and a large number of Protestant groups) see Christ as the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity, True God and True Man. Christ came to Earth to suffer and die for our sins so that we could be forgiven for our sins. The Archangel Michael is just a creature and in no way part of the Holy Trinity. Christ gave us everything we need for salvation - He gave us the Catholic Church that is guided in its infallable teaching by the Holy Spirit. I think there are numerous elements in this brief paragraphs where LDS and Catholic teachings differ. For an authorative view of this topic:scborromeo.org/ccc/p1s2c2.htm

I have no problem in giving you references on what I believe as a Catholic. While everyone has an opinion on virtually everything, sometimes these opinions can drift away from the established doctrine - and this only causes confusion. Can you provide an authorative teaching on ‘Baptism of the dead’ with a reference?

God bless
As a Mormon I would say Miriam1947’s description does not describe my belief regarding baptism for the dead. I think it mischaracterizes the belief perhaps similar to the way you might feel when people slander relics in the Catholic Church.

In general I find the Mormon belief a very inclusive not exclusive practice that broadens a practitioner’s sense of connection to the entire human family across all boundaries. It builds empathy across barriers of time. It celebrates the justice and mercy of God. It is a manifestation of the strength of their belief in the resurrection for all who have ever lived and also the value of every soul.

It is not about turning other people’s ancestors into Mormons or even accuracy or efficiency in accomplishing the task…that’s not the point or they would go about it very differently.

The nuanced Mormon understanding of the afterlife is also not the stark Heaven/Hell divide of most of Christianity, although that imagery is also in uniquely Mormon scripture as well. The Mormon afterlife is described in terms of degrees of light and levels within levels. There will be a place for everyone and all will have the ability to choose according to their willingness to receive that light and the mercy of Christ.
 
Hi, Avila,

Welcome to CAF 🙂

Thank you for an excellent post 👍

God bless
The Catholic Church does not kick women out who have abortions. The Church has a huge network of support for post-abortive women. The church recognizes that,as human beings, we are sinners who need to repent and choose to follow the Gospel daily. Any sinner is welcomed. The Pope himself is a sinner. We don’t deify our leaders, which is why we are surviving the sex abuse scandal. “Holy men and women” as we refer to our religious, are still entirely human. There was only one divine human - Christ himself. Even the greatest saint was a sinner - in fact, St. Francis explained that God chose him because he was the greatest wretch ever born, and he wasn’t lying or being dramatic. He meant it! The more serious the sin, the more the repentant sinner will love God and be loyal forever (see parables for more evidence). I would (again, as I did above) challenge you to study logic and also, please, check your information!
 
Hi, Jackperkins,

Welcome to CAF 🙂

I am glad that everyone hit it off so well. I am curious, though … did they ask you if you had doubts about your Catholic Faith? 😃

God bless
I have spent a lot of time with my Mormon relatives in the US. Tow of them are Bishops (local ministers/pastors) and found them very faithful to their beliefs. Their "congregations were very welcoming to me. We even engaged in a bit of friendly teasing and banter from to time. The thing that ultimately shocked me was the absolute refusal to question their beliefs or discuss any alternatives. I was not trying to convert them, just asking if they ever had any doubts about LDS.
 
Hi, Avila22,

Actually, his description struck me as New Age, too - and because it differed so much from the descriptions given by other LDS members, I think it is good to bring out the actual teaching so all can see it.

Yes, in Matthews account of the Last Judgment - there is NO ‘Other’. One is either counted with the Sheep or the Goats. And, while admittedly this may scare some people, this is the reality that Christ is warning us about.

God bless
This is another New Age reference. While exclusivity and closed-mindedness are silly (what can be feared from questions and exploration), being too “inclusive” is another way of saying “Truth is relative.” And truth is absolute, not relative. Something is true, or it is not. As for the “stark Heaven/Hell divide,” and the “levels of light” - sorry to sound like a broken record, but this is New Age as well. Blurring the lines between Heaven and Hell, trying to find alternative choices for afterlife…it sort of insinuates that there are choices for Good or Evil or Other. There is no Other! It’s either Good (Heaven, presence of God, eternal jubilation) or it’s Evil (Hell, eternal separation from God). And degrees of light? Levels within levels? I’m just waiting for you to talk about spirit guides and astral planes. Are there Mormon people who have had mystical visits to any of the afterlife choices? Because there are several DOZEN Catholics who have seen and/or visited Heaven and Hell. It’s pretty interesting material, actually. I would start with reading Padre Pio. No mention is made of any Kolob or spirit children, sadly…
 
How are levels of somewhere called heaven when God is not present? Isn’t heaven where God is and the whole Christian belief based on Jesus who has recocnciled us to the Father, in order that our life in the world to come is lived with God?

Separation from God is the very definition of hell. Either your are with God or you are not. You can’t be kind of sort of with God. Jesus explained very well, the sheep are separated from the goats…two groups of people. Nothing in there about any other group or places for those groups to live separate from God and be called His.
In Mormon doctrine, there are three levels of heaven: the celestial, or highest. That is where God the Father is,although Parker said it’s important to know that Jesus also goes there. That’s where you may go to progress eternally, eventually being as God is now.

Then there’s the middle one, the terrestrial kingdom, where good people who are not Mormons go, and the lukewarm Mormons. Jesus is here - I always wondered why he wasn’t in the highest level or on his own planet by now, but Parker explained that He does go to the highest level, and the different worlds are organized from there

The lowest is the telestial kingdom, where the Holy Spirit dwells. This is also the place for “liars, sorcerers, whoremongers, and adulterers” - Doctrines and Covenants 76:103 Neither the Father nor the Son enter this level, though its glory “surpasses all understanding” D&C 76:89

Then there’s the outer darkness, for Satan and the most wicked of people (which possibly includes faithful, informed Mormons who become Catholic)

Joseph Smith got this idea, at least in part, from 1 Cor. 15 - no, the text doesn’t support anything like this, but the words “celestial” and “terrestrial,” or “earthly” are in there, and that seems to have been enough of a starting place for him (telestial, of course, is not mentioned, but is an obvious combination of the other two words)
 
In Mormon doctrine, there are three levels of heaven: the celestial, or highest. That is where God the Father is,although Parker said it’s important to know that Jesus also goes there. That’s where you may go to progress eternally, eventually being as God is now.

Then there’s the middle one, the terrestrial kingdom, where good people who are not Mormons go, and the lukewarm Mormons. Jesus is here - I always wondered why he wasn’t in the highest level or on his own planet by now, but Parker explained that He does go to the highest level, and the different worlds are organized from there

The lowest is the telestial kingdom, where the Holy Spirit dwells. This is also the place for “liars, sorcerers, whoremongers, and adulterers” - Doctrines and Covenants 76:103 Neither the Father nor the Son enter this level, though its glory “surpasses all understanding” D&C 76:89

Then there’s the outer darkness, for Satan and the most wicked of people (which possibly includes faithful, informed Mormons who become Catholic)

Joseph Smith got this idea, at least in part, from 1 Cor. 15 - no, the text doesn’t support anything like this, but the words “celestial” and “terrestrial,” or “earthly” are in there, and that seems to have been enough of a starting place for him (telestial, of course, is not mentioned, but is an obvious combination of the other two words)
FYI.

RebeccaJ converted from Mormonism whose spouse is still LDS and they live in the SLC area. She’s familiar with the basics but obviously not buying what they are selling. :rolleyes:
 
FYI.

RebeccaJ converted from Mormonism whose spouse is still LDS and they live in the SLC area. She’s familiar with the basics but obviously not buying what they are selling. :rolleyes:
ha, so true, not buying it.

My dear husband was raised LDS, kind of, he was ordained in their priesthood as a teacher, but he is now an atheist. I didn’t buy what Mormonism was selling very early in my life, by the time I was in my early 20s, I was out and atheist. I converted to Catholicism from atheism.
 
In Mormon doctrine, there are three levels of heaven: the celestial, or highest. That is where God the Father is,although Parker said it’s important to know that Jesus also goes there. That’s where you may go to progress eternally, eventually being as God is now.

Then there’s the middle one, the terrestrial kingdom, where good people who are not Mormons go, and the lukewarm Mormons. Jesus is here - I always wondered why he wasn’t in the highest level or on his own planet by now, but Parker explained that He does go to the highest level, and the different worlds are organized from there

The lowest is the telestial kingdom, where the Holy Spirit dwells. This is also the place for “liars, sorcerers, whoremongers, and adulterers” - Doctrines and Covenants 76:103 Neither the Father nor the Son enter this level, though its glory “surpasses all understanding” D&C 76:89

Then there’s the outer darkness, for Satan and the most wicked of people (which possibly includes faithful, informed Mormons who become Catholic)

Joseph Smith got this idea, at least in part, from 1 Cor. 15 - no, the text doesn’t support anything like this, but the words “celestial” and “terrestrial,” or “earthly” are in there, and that seems to have been enough of a starting place for him (telestial, of course, is not mentioned, but is an obvious combination of the other two words)
Hi, yes, I understand this. What I have never been able to figure out is how heaven is heaven if one is not in the presence of God. Haven’t had a Mormon who can explain this one, ever, and I’ve asked it for a very, very long time.

Since my conversion to Catholicism, I view their levels as levels below celestial as levels of hell, since God is not present to anyone who is anywhere but their celestial kingdom.
 
The Catholic Church does not kick women out who have abortions. The Church has a huge network of support for post-abortive women. The church recognizes that,as human beings, we are sinners who need to repent and choose to follow the Gospel daily. Any sinner is welcomed. The Pope himself is a sinner. We don’t deify our leaders, which is why we are surviving the sex abuse scandal. “Holy men and women” as we refer to our religious, are still entirely human. There was only one divine human - Christ himself. Even the greatest saint was a sinner - in fact, St. Francis explained that God chose him because he was the greatest wretch ever born, and he wasn’t lying or being dramatic. He meant it! The more serious the sin, the more the repentant sinner will love God and be loyal forever (see parables for more evidence). I would (again, as I did above) challenge you to study logic and also, please, check your information!
Avila, please read twice before again accusing me of getting my facts and logic wrong? In what you quoted, I simply asked a question which was answered by other Catholics. One of the answers confirmed any Catholic who supports or participates in an abortion is excommunicated, if I recal correctly (resolved by confession)

I greatly respect that the RCC has extensive services to prevent abortion, and deal with the aftermath. I recall my dear RCC mother adopted/sponsored two pregnant teenagers, giving them a place to live, during their pregnancy.
 
Hey blueadept,
This thread isn’t on Abortion. I qucikly answered an offshoot question AND I LINKED to my source material. I stand by my original post. Naturally, If I had known it would turn into an inquisition, I would have either not replied, or done so in greater depth…

tqualey,
Since burning at the stake is no longer a viable religious reprimand, what is left but being kicked out of your Church? What do the Catholics do to a member who participates in an Abortion?
The question was a challenge to the claims of authority of the LDS church. Since it does not state that an evil is an evil it therefore cannot be the pillar of truth that upholds the true teachings of Christ.

As for your question to tqualey, we pray for them.
 
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