Views on the Ordinariate

[ChurchSoldier]

Pope Francis actually expanded the membership criteria. Now, cradle Catholics who have been baptized only, but haven’t been confirmed and haven’t received their first Communion are eligible for Ordinariate membership, even though they were not former Anglicans.

 

[ChurchSoldier]

As mentioned above, cradle Catholics may be confirmed within the Ordinariate.

Any Catholic may join an Ordinariate parish as we are all in full communion, in just the same way members of the Ordinariate may join a Diocesan parish. Catholics who have been baptised and confirmed may not be admitted as members of the Ordianriate that is all (as oversight principally comes from our ordinaries). To use another example, you don’t have to be in the military to attend mass which is held by a military Ordinariate.

Thanks. I did not realize that. It would certainly open the opportunity for growth. Maybe those who would be drawn to an EF yet want to understand what is said and participate a little more interactively.

 

[ProVobis]

Hello,

New on the forums (although I have been following for sometime).

I was wondering about the views of other Catholics on the Ordinariate and the Ordinariate Use. From personal experience I’ve found that a lot of Catholics don’t quite understand the Ordinariate or, worse still, view us an exclusive sect within the Catholic Church.

I’d really love to bring about more understanding of the Ordinariate to others and to show how our liturgical rites can bring something to the Catholic Church.

So, what are your views? Good or Bad I’d like to hear them or questions you may have. Apologies if this has been discussed elsewhere in detail, however, a search on the Ordinariate does not show much which is recent which is specific to the Ordinariate.

I think there are at least two issues here. Who owns the copyrights to the liturgical prayers and who owns the church buildings. I’ve heard the Anglican/Episcopal Church is renting some of them to the parishioners, but there are quite a few of them so each parish is probably different. It may be that the Common Prayer is in the public domain but I’m not quite sure. These are matters that the ordinary guy in the street probably doesn’t think too much of, but it’s important from the legal and/or financial standpoint.

 

[AnthonyJ]

Hi, Angel of the Lord. Nice to see another Anglican Use Catholic here!

I say another because my de facto home parish is an Anglican Use parish in my hometown. I’ve gotten to become good friends with the local AUCs there, and St. Barnabas has become likes a second home to me. Not only do I love the worship there - heck, I even serve and ring the bells! - but the community there is tight-knit and very strong and dedicated to caring for each other. We have tea after Mass, and often have meetings and social events outside of Mass. It’s a great parish.

As for the Ordinariate itself, its form of liturgy etc, I think it has a lot to share with the larger Catholic Church. I think the Ordinary Form would benefit greatly from incorporating some of the dress code, the smells and bells, and the prayers the Anglican Use has brought in. I think ordinary Catholic could learn sociability and a sense of community, too. Father also works to help those who ask and who need it; they do help homeless people.

In short, I love to vibrancy of the Anglican Use parish, and I want to soak up as much of that as I can!

Although, I have a few minor concerns. Mainly in that Father Rob seems rather lenient about letting Anglicans or Episcopalians also have communion, and he considers Anglican priests’ orders to be valid. I realise the latter is rather complicated matter. But it nevertheless bothers me that he sometimes leans on the walls of doctrine rather than supporting them. Aside from that, I think he is a very good, charitable, respectful priest, who really believes in his work and loves Our Lord.

It would be wrong for this priest to knowingly commune Anglicans or Episcopalians. Only Catholics and Orthodox are permitted to receive the Holy Eucharist by the Catholic Church. He is also wrong in saying Anglican priests’ orders are valid. Hopefully these issues are addressed and corrected in that parish.

 

[TarkanAttila]

I think there are at least two issues here. Who owns the copyrights to the liturgical prayers and who owns the church buildings. I’ve heard the Anglican/Episcopal Church is renting some of them to the parishioners, but there are quite a few of them so each parish is probably different. It may be that the Common Prayer is in the public domain but I’m not quite sure. These are matters that the ordinary guy in the street probably doesn’t think too much of, but it’s important from the legal and/or financial standpoint.

The buildings is definitely a big concern. Many Anglican Use parishes now share a church with a local Roman Catholic congregation because TEC has kicked them out of their old church, and they couldn’t handle the legalese.

St. Barnabas, here in Omaha, is very lucky. They managed to buy their church for “50 cents on the dollar” - half the price it was worth. That is an extraordinary case.

The Anglican Use does not use the Book of Common Prayer for the regular liturgy. They have their own Mass, and until very recently every parish had kind of their own way of saying the Mass.

Even then, if the situation is anything like St. Barnabas, they keep their Books of Common Prayer and their Hymnals. So, at St. Barnabas, we’ve got dozens of copies of the 1940 Hymnals and of the Common Prayer for Evensong. And you can’t exactly force people not to use books you don’t own, now can you?

It would be wrong for this priest to knowingly commune Anglicans or Episcopalians. Only Catholics and Orthodox are permitted to receive the Holy Eucharist by the Catholic Church. He is also wrong in saying Anglican priests’ orders are valid. Hopefully these issues are addressed and corrected in that parish.

I’ve talked to him before. I don’t think he’s mentally come to terms with that, yet. He may not, ever.

Mind you, he and a lot of other Anglicans think Pope Leo XIII was misinformed. And even if the charges against the CofE were true, they are now equally true of our church. It’s a big, complicated issue that’s best addressed by saying, “Whatever the case, the Catholic Church doesn’t recognise Anglican orders”.

 

[ProVobis]

The buildings is definitely a big concern. Many Anglican Use parishes now share a church with a local Roman Catholic congregation because TEC has kicked them out of their old church, and they couldn’t handle the legalese.

St. Barnabas, here in Omaha, is very lucky. They managed to buy their church for “50 cents on the dollar” - half the price it was worth. That is an extraordinary case.

The Anglican Use does not use the Book of Common Prayer for the regular liturgy. They have their own Mass, and until very recently every parish had kind of their own way of saying the Mass.

Even then, if the situation is anything like St. Barnabas, they keep their Books of Common Prayer and their Hymnals. So, at St. Barnabas, we’ve got dozens of copies of the 1940 Hymnals and of the Common Prayer for Evensong. And you can’t exactly force people not to use books you don’t own, now can you?

Thanks for the info.

 

[AngelusDomini]

In the UK the Anglican church has made it quite clear that buildings are not to be shared. (No formal declaration but certain bishops have set the precedent). However, many Catholic parishes have invited the Ordinariate to use their buildings (just as many also allow the Latin Mass Society to use parish churches where the EF is not the norm). A lot of people have found this beneficial to the parish community as a whole. There is one Ordinariate group in the UK who have used a Methodist chapel and are now raising funds to purchase the building, thus establishing a mission base which will be the first of its kind. Further details can be found here: ordinariate.org.uk/groups/torbay.html

Copyright for the BCP is with the Crown, but only in the UK, elsewhere it is in the public domain. Prayers from the BCP have often be included in Catholic devotional books; gaining permission for their use is not a problem.

 

[ProVobis]

Copyright for the BCP is with the Crown, but only in the UK, elsewhere it is in the public domain. Prayers from the BCP have often be included in Catholic devotional books; gaining permission for their use is not a problem.

It’s interesting that they had put the BCP in the public domain, when they could easily demand royalties for their liturgical use outside the Anglican Church. Selling hymnals to the public I can see.

 

[TarkanAttila]

In the UK the Anglican church has made it quite clear that buildings are not to be shared. (No formal declaration but certain bishops have set the precedent).

I could believe that. Very aggressive, that Anglican Communion. A detriment to Christian charity, don’t you think?

There is one Ordinariate group in the UK who have used a Methodist chapel and are now raising funds to purchase the building, thus establishing a mission base which will be the first of its kind. Further details can be found here: ordinariate.org.uk/groups/torbay.html

:clapping: Very cool.

Copyright for the BCP is with the Crown, but only in the UK, elsewhere it is in the public domain. Prayers from the BCP have often be included in Catholic devotional books; gaining permission for their use is not a problem.

Thanks for the information.

 

[ProVobis]

I could believe that. Very aggressive, that Anglican Communion. A detriment to Christian charity, don’t you think?

True, but when you’re losing membership and a potential future source of revenue…

That said, I believe the ICEL was a group which was partly made up of Anglicans so I wonder if the royalties collected by the group which translated the Mass back in the 60’s was shared between the two Churches. It is to be noted some still use the “And also with you” responses.

 

[AngelusDomini]

Even more ironic is that most Anglo-Catholic parishes use the Roman Missal. However, they may omit the prayer for the Pope, move the act of peace etc. - some parts of the Anglican Church may disagree with this, however, since the publication of Common Worship, as long as principle elements are used one may use any rite (Including ones written on the back of an envelope).

 

[ProVobis]

Even more ironic is that most Anglo-Catholic parishes use the Roman Missal. However, they may omit the prayer for the Pope, move the act of peace etc. - some parts of the Anglican Church may disagree with this, however, since the publication of Common Worship, as long as principle elements are used one may use any rite (Including ones written on the back of an envelope).

If you’re talking the 1969 RM, the Lutherans too use it, or at least the English (or German) approved translations. Or parts of it. Translations carry their own copyrights.

 

[ChurchSoldier]

Mind you, he and a lot of other Anglicans think Pope Leo XIII was misinformed. And even if the charges against the CofE were true, they are now equally true of our church. It’s a big, complicated issue that’s best addressed by saying, “Whatever the case, the Catholic Church doesn’t recognise Anglican orders”.

Sums it up pretty well.