Views re: a Catholic Conscientious Objection to Military Service

[JRKH]

I asked this question on “Ask Apologist” but recieved no reply.

What is the Church’s Stance on an individual Catholic applying for conscientious objector status?
I realize that the Church does not Prohibit participation in the military or in “Just Wars”, but what about an individual Catholic who feels strongly that they, personally could not, in good conscience, participate in combat?
Would the Church support the individual in such a circumstance?

Peace
James

 

[M249]

I asked this question on “Ask Apologist” but recieved no reply.

What is the Church’s Stance on an individual Catholic applying for conscientious objector status?
I realize that the Church does not Prohibit participation in the military or in “Just Wars”, but what about an individual Catholic who feels strongly that they, personally could not, in good conscience, participate in combat?
Would the Church support the individual in such a circumstance?

Peace
James

yeah its cool man, as long as you contribute something else to the community

 

[CatsAndDogs]

I asked this question on “Ask Apologist” but recieved no reply.

What is the Church’s Stance on an individual Catholic applying for conscientious objector status?
I realize that the Church does not Prohibit participation in the military or in “Just Wars”, but what about an individual Catholic who feels strongly that they, personally could not, in good conscience, participate in combat?
Would the Church support the individual in such a circumstance?

Peace
James

Do read all of:
CCC
ARTICLE 5
THE FIFTH COMMANDMENT
(Section) III. SAFEGUARDING PEACE
(( 2302-2330 ))

CCC-2311: “Public authorities should make equitable provision for those who for reasons of conscience refuse to bear arms; these are nonetheless obliged to serve the human community in some other way.”

 

[Ruthie]

I’m confused. Why would you need conscientious objector status when the military is all-volunteer?

Ruthie

 

[Wirraway]

I’m confused. Why would you need conscientious objector status when the military is all-volunteer?

Ruthie

entitlement to veterans benefits without the risk comes to mind.

 

[CatsAndDogs]

entitlement to veterans benefits without the risk comes to mind.

Ooooo… clever!

Is that an actual possibility? Could one actually DO such a thing?

 

[Wirraway]

Ooooo… clever!

Is that an actual possibility? Could one actually DO such a thing?

only in the army. the Navy is pure of thought, word and deed.

 

[Sean_Boyle]

I’m confused. Why would you need conscientious objector status when the military is all-volunteer?

Ruthie

Great Point!

 

[rpp]

I’m confused. Why would you need conscientious objector status when the military is all-volunteer?

Ruthie

Great Point!

To deal with those people who joined but refuse to go a deployment to zone of combat.

A Catholic may try to claim “conscientious objector” status, but they weill need to point to something other than their Catholic faith. That is because the Church, nor does God for that matter, teach pacifism.

 

[Wirraway]

To deal with those people who joined but refuse to go a deployment to zone of combat.

A Catholic may try to claim “conscientious objector” status, but they weill need to point to something other than their Catholic faith. That is because the Church, nor does God for that matter, teach pacifism.

COs can and have served honorably in combat zones.

 

[JRKH]

I’m confused. Why would you need conscientious objector status when the military is all-volunteer?

Ruthie

Well, I am 53 yrs old so the question is primarily accademic (sp?)
However, I believe that 18 year olds are still required to register with the selective service - just in case So it is not outside the realm of possibility that a draft could be imposed.

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

To deal with those people who joined but refuse to go a deployment to zone of combat.

Personally, I’d say that If you don’t want to be deployed to a combat zone, don’t join the military.
Of course there was a recent deal in Alaska regarding a conversion after joining, but that should be rare.

A Catholic may try to claim “conscientious objector” status, but they weill need to point to something other than their Catholic faith. That is because the Church, nor does God for that matter, teach pacifism.

That is why I asked if the Church would support such a position on the part of an individual catholic. Are you of the opinion that they would not?

Peace
James

 

[rpp]

COs can and have served honorably in combat zones.

That is true. However, that is **not **why the current crop of those who suddenly claim CO status are doing that now. The reason we are seeing the rash of CO applications now is that most of them are not sincere in claiming CO status.

 

[SenorSalsa]

Well, I am 53 yrs old so the question is primarily accademic (sp?)
However, I believe that 18 year olds are still required to register with the selective service - just in case So it is not outside the realm of possibility that a draft could be imposed.

Peace
James

We are required to “register”, which means on or around your 18th birthday you get a card in the mail with your info on it. I don’t even remember having to send anything back.

I have actually looked into Conscientious Objector status, and appears that you would only have to do it one a draft was re-instituted. You apparently only need to claim it after you are drafted.

So I suppose I can just hope I don’t get drafted

 

[RWMorris]

As a 25 year veteran of military service and a Catholic, my point of view may not be worth much, but here it is.

For enlisted people:

If you join the military and refuse to fight, you should be dishonorably discharged. What you have done is dishonorable and should be treated as such.

If you are drafted, CO status should only get the rifle out of your hands. The are hundreds of other jobs that need to be done and can be done bravely and honorably. If you refuse to do any of those jobs, you should be dishonorably discharged. What you are doing is dishonorable and should be treated as such.

No prison time, no executions, just treat them like they deserve to be treated.

For officers. I have no patience for men who pretend to be leaders. I would not treat them as kindly as the enlisted.

 

[rpp]

We are required to “register”, which means on or around your 18th birthday you get a card in the mail with your info on it. I don’t even remember having to send anything back.

Then you have NOT registered for Selective Service. You MUST submit a form available at any post office. I suggest you do it right away.

I have actually looked into Conscientious Objector status, and appears that you would only have to do it one a draft was re-instituted. You apparently only need to claim it after you are drafted.

So I suppose I can just hope I don’t get drafted

CO status can also apply to those already in military service, even volunteers. There are also a number of types of conscientious objection status. Some would allow a person to serve in a non-combat role such a in the mess or infirmary. Other types of CO status would keep a person out of the military altogether.

 

[JRKH]

As a 25 year veteran of military service and a Catholic, my point of view may not be worth much, but here it is.

First of all Let me thank you for your Service. We owe much to our veterans.
Think if this as a cyber handshake since we don’t have a handshake smilie.

For enlisted people:

If you join the military and refuse to fight, you should be dishonorably discharged. What you have done is dishonorable and should be treated as such.

If you are drafted, CO status should only get the rifle out of your hands. The are hundreds of other jobs that need to be done and can be done bravely and honorably. If you refuse to do any of those jobs, you should be dishonorably discharged. What you are doing is dishonorable and should be treated as such.

No prison time, no executions, just treat them like they deserve to be treated.

I tend to agree with your statements re: the volunteer army. However, in the case of a draft, I think that it needs to be considered at the time of entering the service.
Granted there are other jobs besides direct combat roles, but there are also many views on the validity of participating in the military. Some feel any participation is wrong, while others feel that only “Killing” is wrong and other - support - roles are OK.
rpp pointed that out in his post as well.

For officers. I have no patience for men who pretend to be leaders. I would not treat them as kindly as the enlisted.

Can’t argue with this. How could a CO become an officer in the first place? Only in the rarest of cases could I see an officer being granted a CO discharge.

Peace
James

 

[Benedictus]

Can’t argue with this. How could a CO become an officer in the first place? Only in the rarest of cases could I see an officer being granted a CO discharge.

It happens. I recall the case of a Navy pilot a while back (didn’t know him personally). Some people, for one reason or another, come to the belief that all war is immoral or unjustifiable, often after they have seen war up close. It’s an uphill battle for someone in the military to get CO status, but it happens.

 

[RWMorris]

First of all Let me thank you for your Service. … I tend to agree with your statements re: the volunteer army. However, in the case of a draft, I think that it needs to be considered at the time of entering the service.
Granted there are other jobs besides direct combat roles, but there are also many views on the validity of participating in the military. Some feel any participation is wrong, while others feel that only “Killing” is wrong and other - support - roles are OK.
rpp pointed that out in his post as well…

James, thank you for your kind words.

For those draftees who feel they cannot participate in any way in the military, they should accept their dishonorable discharge and get on with their lives. There are far worse things, such as long prison terms and even summary executions, which are completely legal and many honorable men feel are justifiable given the dire circumstances during war time. The CO who refuses to serve, even in a non-combatant support role, should not feel like they’ve accomplished some honorable deed; they haven’t. Sometimes, even moral actions are not honorable, especially when one’s morality endangers others. If one must do it, so be it. He must never feel pride in such decisions, only public shame and a public sense of failure.

Now, don’t get me wrong. I don’t believe such actions have no redeeming value. They do. Failure is the bitter root of wisdom and the fruit can be sweet indeed. But a man who chooses such a path has chosen a tough row to hoe, and to overcome his failure will require a valiant effort. I have no evidence one way or the other, but I wonder how the average CO fairs in his life’s calling, because CO is a calling indeed.

Question for you, the CO who fails in his life’s calling, was his claim as a CO a mortal sin?

 

[JRKH]

James, thank you for your kind words.

For those draftees who feel they cannot participate in any way in the military, they should accept their dishonorable discharge and get on with their lives. There are far worse things, such as long prison terms and even summary executions, which are completely legal and many honorable men feel are justifiable given the dire circumstances during war time. The CO who refuses to serve, even in a non-combatant support role, should not feel like they’ve accomplished some honorable deed; they haven’t. Sometimes, even moral actions are not honorable, especially when one’s morality endangers others. If one must do it, so be it. He must never feel pride in such decisions, only public shame and a public sense of failure.

Now, don’t get me wrong. I don’t believe such actions have no redeeming value. They do. Failure is the bitter root of wisdom and the fruit can be sweet indeed. But a man who chooses such a path has chosen a tough row to hoe, and to overcome his failure will require a valiant effort. I have no evidence one way or the other, but I wonder how the average CO fairs in his life’s calling, because CO is a calling indeed.

Question for you, the CO who fails in his life’s calling, was his claim as a CO a mortal sin?

I’m afraid I don’t quite understand your question about a CO position being a mortal sin. Could you elaborate?

Frankly I’m not familiar enough with the military systems to know what would be appropriate in the case of a person seeking CO after already joining the service whether by draft of volunteering. My thinking is more along the lines of a person who has never believed it right to bear arms in the military. Such a person should, in the case of a draft, certainly do all he can to convince those responsible BEFORE he is ever sworn in.
I am old enough to remember the Draft during the Vietnam era so perhaps my outlook is a little different from those who are younger and mostly familiar with the All Volunteer Military.

I understand that a person, such as yourself, who has given many years to this country’s defence will feel a rather strong dislike for someone who would refuse to serve, but it should also be remembered that one of the principles you defend is, in fact, the right of Conscientious Objection. While you seem to feel that the person who seeks CO status is somehow dishonorable, others may see such a decision as highly courageous and quite honorable. It simply depends upon the outlook and convictions of the individuals involved.

Please understand that I am not taking a position per-se. My original question related to the more narrow view of whether the Church would support an individual catholic’s decision to seek CO status.

Peace
James