Vigil Mass - More Ongoing Problems

[Micki]

We attended 7:00 vigil Mass in our parish. The Gospel was read by two lectors, the deacon and the priest - diaglog style. To add to this irregularity, the reading was taken from parts of the Gospel for the Vigil Mass, Midnight Mass and Christmas Day. This combination allowed for more parts to be read by each of the four participants. The congregation was confused as you could hear the frequent turning of pages in the missalette.
Sad to say, this is only one in a number of problems in my parish. Should I risk more shunning and bring this up at the liturgy committee meeting in January?

Micki

 

[Deacon_Tony560]

Have never heard of this. However, we do the Gospel dialogue style on Palm Sunday. As far as I know the deacon, if present, is the logical Gospel proclaimer. If you want answers, start at the local level and work your way up to the diocese.

May God bless you.
Deacon Tony

 

[Micki]

Dialog Gospels are permitted only on Palm Sunday and Good Friday. This same thing occured last Christmas. I brought this up at the Liturgy Committee meeting last January. The pastor’s response was strange. “If Jesus didn’t want us to do it this way, he would tell us.” I let this answer go but I really wanted to respond, “Jesus has spoken to us through His church.” I was shunned for a while after this and have since been considered “scrupulous”.

Micki

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Micki:

We attended 7:00 vigil Mass in our parish. The Gospel was read by two lectors, the deacon and the priest - diaglog style. To add to this irregularity, the reading was taken from parts of the Gospel for the Vigil Mass, Midnight Mass and Christmas Day. This combination allowed for more parts to be read by each of the four participants. The congregation was confused as you could hear the frequent turning of pages in the missalette.
Sad to say, this is only one in a number of problems in my parish. Should I risk more shunning and bring this up at the liturgy committee meeting in January?

Micki

Christ can’t, so you should.

 

[_veritas]

Micki:

We attended 7:00 vigil Mass in our parish. The Gospel was read by two lectors, the deacon and the priest - diaglog style. To add to this irregularity, the reading was taken from parts of the Gospel for the Vigil Mass, Midnight Mass and Christmas Day. This combination allowed for more parts to be read by each of the four participants. The congregation was confused as you could hear the frequent turning of pages in the missalette.
Sad to say, this is only one in a number of problems in my parish. Should I risk more shunning and bring this up at the liturgy committee meeting in January?

Micki

Good heavens… yes – this is greatly incorrect. First, even aside from the obvious craziness of the dialog-style, and aside from the “because the Church says so” reasons, this is simply wrong to do because the readings for the Masses on Christmas have been carefully laid out so as to lead the Church through the Nativity. This is why there are completely different Masses for the Vigil, the Midnight Mass, the Mass at Dawn and the Mass during the Day. By messing this order and sequence up, you are not only scoffing at the universal Church and the Vicar of Christ on earth, you are completely confusing the congregation.

The sad thing is that there was a unique opportunity here, with all of the non-regular Mass attendees. Christmas and Easter are the two times a year when priests have a real opportunity to touch the lives of so many “lost sheep” who have left the fold and only return for Mass these two times a year. So much opportunity - and so much responsibility - rests upon priests for this window of evangelization. Confusing the congregation and being indifferent to the will of the Church surely does not help this.

Were I you, I would quietly approach the pastor before the next meeting, and bring up your concerns. Rather than focus on the “legal” reasons why (which he could ignore and pass off as the complaining of a “troublemaker”) instead direct your concerns to the “pastoral needs” of the people – use all the touchy-feely language you can muster!!

Psychoanalyize the “effects” of what happened, and how the faithful were “emotionally hurt” by this, whether they knew it or not. Try to look at the readings again and come up with an aspect of God’s mercy and love that was not revealed to the congregation by the decision (that was well-intentioned of course) to muck up the sequence and confuse the heck out of them.

Sometimes I’ve found this “PC scare tactic” works the best of all…

Then, tell the priest you are planning to bring this up at the next liturgy meeting. Do so, and use an even more heartfelt “PC scare tactic” method, explaining why you feel the people were so hurt by this (don’t mention the Church’s wishes at all… terrorist liturgists don’t want to hear about the “Church” and what the “Church” wants.)

The only way to get people to change is to get them to want to change… particularly if you have no real authority to throw any books at them.

People only want to hear the truth when it is the truth that they want to hear.

+veritas+

 

[katherine2]

The congregation was confused as you could hear the frequent turning of pages in the missalette.

Missalettes should be banned. The Gospel is to be proclaimed to the people not read by the people.

 

[_veritas]

katherine2:

Missalettes should be banned. The Gospel is to be proclaimed to the people not read by the people.

In a perfect world, we would be guaranteed to have readers/priests/deacons with perfect pronounciation, vocal modulation, and tone; and we would be guaranteed sound systems/acoustics that actually reach to everyone’s ears with appropriate volume and clarity.

Praise God if you attend a parish that is perfect, but I sure don’t know of any myself.

Besides – it helps to have missalettes handy when the priest starts changing words around, particularly when he decides to be “feminist-friendly” and change the Gospel so it’s more “inclusive” (and at the same time insulting the intelligence of all women everywhere, by assuming they are too stupid to figure out that God meant all men, including women… I highly recommend bringing that up the next time you hear a priest change the words of our Lord around – go up to him after Mass and politely tell him that you feel very offended at his degrading use of language during the Gospel and ask him why he thinks women are so stupid… gets them every time. )

(oh, and before certain female individuals attack me for talking like that about “their” gender – I AM A WOMAN. Not that that will help, I’ve discovered there is no one a feminist hates more than another woman who they feel is a “traitor” to the cause… so much for tolerance.)

Sheesh… sorry. Rant mode off.

+veritas+

 

[Elizabeth_B]

katherine2:

Missalettes should be banned. The Gospel is to be proclaimed to the people not read by the people.

There are times when the missalette is important:

As a child, I always read the three readings while waiting for mass to start. It helped me to better understand it during mass. My kids often do the same thing.

Many elderly – and not so elderly – people have hearing problems. Without the missalette, they are frequently unable to follow the readings.

Other times, there are squirmy children nearby (I’m happy to see them present) and the missalette keeps me from missing something.

Some folks are “visual learners”, not “auditory learners”, and more effectively “hear” the message when they can see it as well as hear it.

I could keep going, but I’m sure you get the point. I vote for keeping the missalettes.

 

[katherine2]

+veritas+:

In a perfect world, we would be guaranteed to have readers/priests/deacons with perfect pronounciation, vocal modulation, and tone; and we would be guaranteed sound systems/acoustics that actually reach to everyone’s ears with appropriate volume and clarity.

Praise God if you attend a parish that is perfect, but I sure don’t know of any myself.

I’m sorry your world is so liturgically impoverished. I am a member of a solid, progressive parish. We don’t approach Mass as an excerize to rush through without accidentially committing an “abuse” or “illicit act.”

We care about liturgy and installed a quality sound system. We are not a wealthy parish but have an engaged and active laity, so we are able to afford such things that we consider a neccesity not a luxury. We train our readers in pronounciation, vocal modulation, and tone and our clergy are committed to liturgical renewal and have the same virtues.

We do have a handful of misselettes available for the non-English speaking or hard of hearing (though we have earphones in the first row of pews).

None of this is rocket science. If it is lacking in your parish, you need to come over to a good, progressive Catholic community were the people care about such things.

 

[Elizabeth_B]

katherine2:

If it is lacking in your parish, you need to come over to a good, progressive Catholic community were the people care about such things.

I’m sure you did not mean to imply that communities with missalettes are not “good, progressive Catholic communities where people care about such things.”

 

[katherine2]

Elizabeth B.:

I’m sure you did not mean to imply that communities with missalettes are not “good, progressive Catholic communities where people care about such things.”

being a liberal, I’m willing to be open minded and flexible. But I do think progressive parishes are more willing to dispense with these horrid little pamplets. (with adjustments for pastoral considerations!).

 

[SeekerJen]

Micki:

Dialog Gospels are permitted only on Palm Sunday and Good Friday. This same thing occured last Christmas. I brought this up at the Liturgy Committee meeting last January. The pastor’s response was strange. “If Jesus didn’t want us to do it this way, he would tell us.” I let this answer go but I really wanted to respond, “Jesus has spoken to us through His church.” I was shunned for a while after this and have since been considered “scrupulous”.

Micki

A more effective (although admittedly less charitable) response would have been: “Well, that attitude is why we now have several thousand Protestant denominations.”

 

[luke2219]

liturgy committee meeting

??? What is this? If this were me, the first thing I’d do is move to disband the liturgy committee! Probably wouldn’t be prudent, but the whole idea of a liturgy committee scares me. Sounds to me like that is your first problem, too many cooks.

Missalettes should be banned. The Gospel is to be proclaimed to the people not read by the people.

No they should not! Yes, the Gospel is to be proclaimed and heard by the people. Some people have a hard time hearing. Some proclaimers have a hard time proclaiming. Sometimes they read too slow and I can’t follow them. A lot of times, they add punctuation in the wrong places and it’s hard to follow them. Even if the reader is perfect, there will be people who have a hard time following because they need it read faster, or slower. For me, I need things read very fast for me to understand it. Most of the time when people are reading, I can’t retain any of it. I would have a very hard time in classes when the professors would just read their notes. I read along in my missal so I can focus more of my attention on the readings and follow them better.

Pax et bonum

 

[Irish_Melkite]

Katherine2:

Missalettes should be banned. The Gospel is to be proclaimed to the people not read by the people.

]
I’m sorry your world is so liturgically impoverished. I am a member of a solid, progressive parish. We don’t approach Mass as an excerize to rush through without accidentially committing an “abuse” or “illicit act.”

We care about liturgy and installed a quality sound system. We are not a wealthy parish but have an engaged and active laity, so we are able to afford such things that we consider a neccesity not a luxury. We train our readers in pronounciation, vocal modulation, and tone and our clergy are committed to liturgical renewal and have the same virtues.

We do have a handful of misselettes available for the non-English speaking or hard of hearing (though we have earphones in the first row of pews).

None of this is rocket science. If it is lacking in your parish, you need to come over to a good, progressive Catholic community were the people care about such things.

Katherine,

You know, I thought I recognized the posting style. You must indeed be Katherine from the old RCIA forum - I see you haven’t lost your warmth and fuzziness and that you still worship in the perfect parish. Nice to know that some things remain constant.

Many years,

Neil

 

[Franciscum]

katherine2:

Missalettes should be banned. The Gospel is to be proclaimed to the people not read by the people.

Missalettes are a wonderful means to help people absorb the readings at Mass. This is particulaly true for the hearing impaired, those who attending the Mass in huge buildings with terrible acustics, or those who have to listen to horrible readers who are chosen for reasons other than their ability to perform the ministry.

Visit any college Shakespeare class and someone will be reading while the rest follow along in their books. That seems to be the best way for many to learn/absorb.

To suggest that “missalettes should be banned” is to show ignorance of, and disregard for a great many people…

 

[Franciscum]

katherine2:

being a liberal, I’m willing to be open minded and flexible. But I do think progressive parishes are more willing to dispense with these horrid little pamplets. (with adjustments for pastoral considerations!).

Did you happen to form this stultified postion a few minutes before Mass while you and other “liberals” enjoyed cafe latte supremos (with just a splash of soy milk) and tangerine flavored biscotti across the vesting table in your sacristy?

Maybe you should read what Bp. Gregory had to say on this matter:

"Bishop Wilton Gregory gives a good run-down on the use of missalettes:

*Missalettes Serve A Purpose by Bp. Wilton Gregory
*
A sure sign of the imperfection of the world in which we live is the need to employ printed matter to aid us in our worship. Would that we all knew the liturgy well enough to worship spontaneously, from the heart. Would that the Word were proclaimed with such clarity and force that all eyes and ears would be upon the Living Word as proclaimed. But we do need aids.

We all need assistance. Many need the help of printed matter. While constantly keeping the ideal before us, we need to admit that not everyone sees or hears or reads perfectly. And to avoid having anyone deprived of the nourishment of the Sacred Word, missalettes, such as the Leaflet Missal, do serve a purpose.

A generation ago, Catholics were told that the more perfect way to participate in the liturgy was to follow along with the priest in their missals. It was avant-garde to read the prayers of the Mass silently, in translation. It was even better to respond to the priest, aloud in Latin. All this was made possible through the convenience of the vernacular missals that were once very popular. Now, these same people are being told that the use of the missalette is backward, retrogressive, and not in keeping with the spirit of the renewed liturgy. Many people are confused. After hearing for years that the use of the missal was a sound practice, now people are being told that the missalette, the postconciliar successor to many missals, is not a help to participation.

. . . To Foster Participation

The truth is that the missalette itself may not be the problem. It is the inappropriate use of the missalette that causes the difficulty. The missalette was never intended to become an impediment to active participation in the liturgy.

Missalettes are not published to inhibit participation. Missalettes are not published to get people to rivet their attention on the printed page. Furthermore, missalettes are not published as answer forms to correct mispronounced words or to occasion a less than charitable correction for the errors of lectors, deacons, or priests. Instead, missalettes are meant to insure that all God’s People can follow the prayer of the Church as completely and accurately as possible. Like all missalettes, your Leaflet Missal is meant to foster participation and understanding.

Conclusion

Missalettes are an aid to worship–no more, no less. In the best of all possible worlds, we might not have need for missalettes; but in the world in which we live, let us at least make the best possible use of the missalettes that we do have."

 

[shannon_e]

Micki,

I’m so sorry. Reading about your situation (and about other abuses) is painful. It’s like they’re flogging Christ right in front of you. So sad.

It makes me truly count my blessings that I just happened to land in a diocese that keeps Christ and Church first.

Keep us informed.

To you, Micki,
and to Franciscum and all-- have a Merry Christmas and a Blessed New Year.

 

[manualman]

I may be wrong, but it seems to me that the reason we have readings is to LEARN. Having speant 17 years in school, I can say that pretty much ALL educators agree that incorporating both sight and hearing into a lesson is better than hearing alone. (Ever seen a school without a blackboard, a lecture hall without A/V system?)

What is it that “progressives” seem to fear about printed missals? IMO, missals are disparaged because they make it that much harder to change readings, edit, selectively omit passages or castrate the scriptures.

But I may be a cynic due to suffering such abuses at the University of Wisconsin-Madison Neumann Center in college.

 

[luke2219]

manualman:

What is it that “progressives” seem to fear about printed missals? IMO, missals are disparaged because they make it that much harder to change readings, edit, selectively omit passages or castrate the scriptures.

I get that same feeling. They don’t want me reading along so I won’t know what they are changing. I have my own missal that I bring to a parish that discourages the missalettes. This parish doesn’t change much. Only a few lectors seem bent on inclusive language, but the pastor doesn’t correct them. I just can’t see why some people get all bent out of shape because I want to read along with the reader.

Pax

 

[DominvsVobiscvm]

I dunno . . . it seems to me that the vast majority of missalettes are published by oranizations with a Modernist bent.