Vintage Article 'Civil Rights' for Women

[Beautiful]

The following is an article from a vintage Catholic Courier from the Diocese of Rochester, New York.
Vol 77 No. 24 Friday March 11, 1966
The bold paragraphs appear as they were originally presented.

‘Civil Rights’ for Women

Dayton – (NC) – The modern woman, who has widened her sphere of competence, must exercise more influence in the modern Church, Sister Mary Luke of the Sisters of Loretto told nearly 1,500 women of all faiths at a meeting here.

The first American woman to serve as an auditor at the Vatican Council and chairman of the National Conference of Major Superiors of Women Religious, Sister Mary Luke championed the rights of women from the pulpit of St. Albert’s church here.

There is a parallel between the civil rights movements and the movement for the exercise of woman’s rights, she said. In the civil rights there has developed for some “an awareness of our prejudices which a few years ago we didn’t even know existed.”

There are “many times when we aren’t even conscious of the prejudices against women,” she said. “we need to become aware. When we do, we can go forward in the Church.”

Catholics are going to have to “absorb” the documents, of the Vatican Council before women gain their rightful stature in the Church, Sister Mary Luke said.

**She singled out specifically a statement in the Constitution of the Church in the Modern World, declaring that “every type of discrimination, whether social or cultural, whether based on sex, race, social condition language or religion is to be overcome and eradicated as contrary to God’s intent. **

Current sociological and psychological changes require that the status of women in society be properly respected, she said. “We can move forward, not stridently or aggressively but openly” to share in the richness of things to come, to which both men and women will contribute, she said.

Sister Mary Luke said she had discussed with both Protestant and Catholic women a suggestion that the Church enlist women “in the third stage of life.”

“When the children are grown, the responsibilities of women are less. In the Western world at least, women at this point have from 25 to 30 years of productive life ahead of them,” she declared.

Taking care of the altar linens and flowers should not be the extent of a woman’s active service to the Church at that stage, Sister Mary Luke said.

“In our day, I think our service must be much deeper and broader than this. There should be opportunities for our bringing to bear on the whole life of the Church all that we have learned.”

She described her presence as one of 15 women seated with 2,500 bishops at the Vatican Council as “a heartwarming experience.”

Some of the bishops told the women “it’s about time” that women, “who compose half of the human race.” Be admitted to the top level meetings of the Church.

“I agreed that it was about time,” she said. “The very fact that we were asked into this highest governing body of the Catholic Church, to be present at all the sessions, to be handed the secret documents with great abandon and confidence that women could keep secrets, had some meaning,” according to Sister Mary Luke.

 

[Beautiful]

It is Sunday morning here in the Diocese of Rochester and I know that many Catholics will be going to Mass only to slog through the ‘little talks or reflections’ given by numerous and various laywomen and women religious in lieu of a homily given by a priest.

 

[GemmaRose]

It is Sunday morning here in the Diocese of Rochester and I know that many Catholics will be going to Mass only to slog through the ‘little talks or reflections’ given by numerous and various laywomen and women religious in lieu of a homily given by a priest.

And I, for one, in my life, have listened to so very many “homilies” where my time would have been better spent (a) listening to the nearest street corner preacher rather than the priest who was supposed to be imparting some sort of message other than sharing some sappy vignette of his life, (b) having a manicure, or (c) having a beer, that I have wished some intelligent woman was up there preaching… soooo, what’s your point?

I have heard many, many excellent talks (non-Mass settings, e.g. retreats, etc.) given by women… Scripture-based… theologically correct… interestingly presented… attention-riveting, and so forth.

GOOD PREACHING DOES NOT DEPEND ON TESTICLES.

It was our Lord Jesus Himself who first commissioned a woman to preach the Good News. (Remember that little scene with Mary Magdalene at the empty tomb? “Go tell My brothers…” )

As if to get the point across to the male patriarchal society of the time, the Holy Spirit inspired all four evangelists to include in the Resurrection story the fact that it was Mary Magdalene who was the first to spread the Gospel and noted how it was the MEN who did not believe her. And it was not just her words they did not believe, it was the words of our Lord Himself since He had been telling them for three years that He would raise on the 3rd day!

Do you not see the irony, no - injustice, in the fact that it was the women who were faithful… the women who were at the foot of the Cross… the women who were brave enough to go to the Tomb… the women who first believed… and the women who were instructed, AND DID, first spread the message that HE WAS RISEN, and that instead of some measure of respect, women have been treated as little more than lepers for the past 2,000 years.

That our HMC will not even allow a woman to read the Gospel at Mass, nor allow a woman to preach, is shameful.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

With all due respect, Gemma, as a fellow woman, if Holy **Mother **Church has spoken (and I believe Pope John Paul II of blessed memory was quite explicit in 1994 at the latest) and confirmed that the Church (not simply ‘the men in the church’) has no authority to ordain women. . .then Holy Mother Church has spoken.

Again, with all due respect to men–men **need **the humility of the priesthood–service–far more than women do (at least until the excesses of the last 50 years of the women’s movement managed to twist ‘real’ rights into something far different and to confuse many honest and sincere women into thinking that the priesthood was unfairly’ withheld’ from them by men’s whims alone).

 

[Beautiful]

GOOD PREACHING DOES NOT DEPEND ON TESTICLES.

That our HMC will not even allow a woman to read the Gospel at Mass, nor allow a woman to preach, is shameful.

The following is the first half of an article from a vintage Catholic Courier from the Diocese of Rochester, New York.
Vol 77 No. 24 Friday March 11, 1966

*Maryknoll Nun Has Story to Tell

Sister Ann Veronica, Chief of Surgery at Maryknoll Hospital Pusan Korea, will begin a month’s visit in the Rochester Diocese Tuesday, March 15. The nun is well know to many in this area because she interned at St. Mary’s Hospital in 1957.

Maryknoll Hospital in PUsan, Sister Ann Veronica told reporters, is the only charity hospital in a country of 22 million people. The Korean Medical Association has approved it as a medical training center; Sister Ann Veronica serves as a clinical professor at the Pusan University Medical College and is a member of the Korean Surgical Society, having passed the licensing examination for surgeons in that country.

The hospital has 160 beds and treats some 500 patients a day on charity basis. This requires financial support, Sister says, with a wry smile. In fact, she is in this country at present, to seek fellowships, research grants, and help from foundations, in order to train native Korean doctors and nurses.

A graduate of Manhattanville College in Purchase, NY and of Marquette University School of Medicine in Milwaukee, Sister Ann Veronica served a two year residency in surgery at St. Vincent’s Hospital in NYC following her year at St. Mary’s in Rochester.

She learned much about the treatment of NY’s poor in the busy clinics of 11th Street and 7th Avenue. “Look” magazine featured her ambulance rides in its NY issue in 1958. From NY’s poor she went directly to serve the poor of Pusan and its surrounding villages and cities. Patients line the street in front of Maryknoll Hospital each day. Often from 400 to 500 are treated or admitted depending on the severity of their condition. *

The preceding excerpt is from the same volume of newspaper.
Isn’t it ironic Gemma that Sister Ann Veronica took her God-Given talents and used them beautifully without bemoaning the fact that she DID not have male sex organs!!! The printed black and white photo of her along with Sister Ann Fidelis on the streets of Korea reflects joyous and dignified women of grace.
The Holy Mother Church ordains men and men only to ministers of the Word in the Liturgy of the Mass. Unfortunately there are some feminists who have taken this ‘civil rights’ movements of the 60s and won’t let go.
And you think you have heard some homilies that leave you wishing for a beer or a manicure? Try listening to some of the woman I’ve heard give ‘little thoughts and reflections’ over the past ten years? Gag me with a spoon - the spoon that forces me to listen to these women who like to play act at men on the altar of the Church.

 

[puzzleannie]

Sister Mary Luke said she had discussed with both Protestant and Catholic women a suggestion that the Church enlist women “in the third stage of life.”

“When the children are grown, the responsibilities of women are less. In the Western world at least, women at this point have from 25 to 30 years of productive life ahead of them,” she declared.

Taking care of the altar linens and flowers should not be the extent of a woman’s active service to the Church at that stage, Sister Mary Luke said.

“In our day, I think our service must be much deeper and broader than this. There should be opportunities for our bringing to bear on the whole life of the Church all that we have learned.”

e.

huh must be the reason that 90% of parish catechetical leaders (DREs) and the catechists we work with are women in the ahem last third of life, in other words, old church ladies like me, who still are doing the linen and flowers along with teaching the faith to the next generation.

article cited was a newspaper report of an interview, not a homily so what is the problem? neither is it a call on the part of either sister profiled for women’s ordinations. the message, quite clearly, is that there are many areas where the laity can serve using their unique talents and experiences, outside the realms reserved to the ordained. If you want to critique a woman giving a homily or the issue of women’s ordination, start another thread, and link a source for that. this is not that thread, at least not based on articles cited.

 

[Beautiful]

I have a digital photocopy Sister Veronica Ann’s impressive image but I’m unsure how to link it to this forum. Who needs Sister Veronica Ann’s photo when we have Mother Theresa of Calcutta all over the internet?cyberindian.com/imother/mt3.gif

 

[Beautiful]

huh must be the reason that 90% of parish catechetical leaders (DREs) and the catechists we work with are women in the ahem last third of life, in other words, old church ladies like me, who still are doing the linen and flowers along with teaching the faith to the next generation.

article cited was a newspaper report of an interview, not a homily so what is the problem? neither is it a call on the part of either sister profiled for women’s ordinations. the message, quite clearly, is that there are many areas where the laity can serve using their unique talents and experiences, outside the realms reserved to the ordained. If you want to critique a woman giving a homily or the issue of women’s ordination, start another thread, and link a source for that. this is not that thread, at least not based on articles cited.

The problem is that unlike you - there are some old church ladies who have been stepping up to the pulpit to give little talks or reflections while the priest sits on his duff and listens. It has been so commonplace in the Diocese of Rochester for so long that most are numb to the experience. I for one continue to be agitated by women who like to pretend to be priests. Sister Mary Luke had a flare and spirit for feminism that oversteps boundaries and continues to do so today. Using the term ‘civil rights’ to justify women’s actions in a modern world does not fly well in the face of the Church.

 

[Just_Lurking]

GOOD PREACHING DOES NOT DEPEND ON TESTICLES.

But everyone keeps telling me that women cannot become priests for the same reason that men cannot give birth, so I figured that testicles were just as important to the first job as a uterus was to the second?

 

[manualman]

The fact that women cannot be priests or deacons does not in any way prevent women from preaching the gospel. Especially if she actually understands what that gospel is really all about.

There is absolutely no restriction on women leading bible study, retreats, prayer vigils, group rosaries, educational events, speaking tours, etc…

The fact that women are not permitted to preach homilies is merely a side effect of the fact that homilies must be by priests and that Christ demonstrably reserved the priesthood to men.

Women have a great point in noting that a good amount of condecension has come their way from the hierarchy over time. But the solution is to shame the men for their sinfulness, not play the same game /sin.

IMO, women would do better to drop pursuit of the priesthood as a power play and listen to find what the Holy Spirit is calling them to actually do.

Personally, I exepect to see women as Cardinals in my lifetime. Faithful lifelong leaders of women’s religious congregations, not professional agitators. Unlike the episcopacy or priesthood, the office of Cardinal is not instituted by Christ and can be modified to allow the valuable voices of holy women a greater role in the hierarchy.

 

[CapIV]

The day the Church ordains women is the day She ceases to be Catholic.

According to Canon 351, a Cardinal must at least be a priest. Meaning that a woman cannot become a cardinal.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

That would be an interesting modification in that you would obviously have to make sure that any female Cardinal would not be eligible for the papacy. . .

Personally, my vote would be for deaconess. . .and not as a ‘substitute’ deacon. We already have nuns and sisters (and hopefully now with the terrible ‘experiments’ of the last 4 decades shown to be Dead Sea fruit, with God’s grace in the next decades we’ll have a resurgence of holy women increasing the ranks of the sisterhood so that we can once again have the thriving Catholic schools and hospitals that we once had under their auspices). . . if we increase female deacons for lay service with a ‘lay voice’ to be heard WITH the clergy that would be fine.

I’m not saying that ‘men’ have not had their historical moments of oppressing women (they have), but I do think that we have to be careful that we don’t make the mistake of thinking that because a ‘group’ of men did this or that and ‘subjugated’ a group of women at points X, Y, and Z, therefore we absolutely must ‘to be fair’ insist that 'women must be heard more and have a position of power in the Church".

The Church isn’t about power (even if some may mistakenly think it is.) It isn’t a democracy where everybody has ‘equal rights’. It’s a kingdom. It’s also a paradox. . .one in which the weakest and the most oppressed here on this earth conversely are the strongest and most powerful in the True Kingdom. We tend to forget about that and want to have our power here and now. We should be listening to our King (and His Scriptures) more often and we would be less concerned with quotas, ‘fairness’, male oppression, a voice for the sisterhood, power, ‘rights’, et. al. and more concerned with humility, meekness, prayer, faith, obedience, and trust.

 

[puzzleannie]

. I for one continue to be agitated by women who like to pretend to be priests. Sister Mary Luke had a flare and spirit for feminism that oversteps boundaries and continues to do so today. Using the term ‘civil rights’ to justify women’s actions in a modern world does not fly well in the face of the Church.

If she did indeed pretend to be a priest and advocate other women doing so, poster should provide a link to that story, so we can discuss it. OP does not make your case. Please provide link or source to show either of women profiled in this thread advocate priesthood for women.

 

[Beautiful]

If she did indeed pretend to be a priest and advocate other women doing so, poster should provide a link to that story, so we can discuss it. OP does not make your case. Please provide link or source to show either of women profiled in this thread advocate priesthood for women.

The key here is that this article appears in a 1966 Diocese of Rochester, NY newspaper. Approximately a year or two ago you might have been able to go to a number parish websites in this diocese and read published pseudo homilies by women religious and laywomen. Today - one would need to walk into one of the Rochester churches to actually witness women religious and laywomen giving talks or reflections in lieu of a homily by the priest who is present. These women now skid under the public radar of the internet. I can guarantee that in just about any Rochester parish you find a female pastoral admin or assistant you will find a woman giving a reflection in lieu of a homily.

No Puzzleannie - there is no link to prove to you that women are dominating in traditional priest roles here in the DOR but I can tell you that this vintage article that I found at my favorite antique/junk store reflects the basis of a feminist attitude that has blossomed to seemingly uncontrollable proportions here.

I am just one voice and I speak the truth about what I see. For the past ten or more years I’ve been digging and searching in an effort to figure out what has gone wrong here. I have written letters to hierarchy in the Church and I still don’t see any results.

If you lived here and witnessed what I see then perhaps you would hear the acid inference in Sister Mary Luke’s article.

By the way - I can produce a photocopy of this article if the CAForum Admin requests it. I just need a little instructional help getting it from my home to here.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Reading the first post carefully we do not see any sign whatsoever that Sister Mary Luke or anybody else mentioned was advocating female priesthood.

I do believe that women do indeed ‘preach’ in many ways (and not just using words). . .but that preaching cannot be given ‘during Mass’ as a homily (homilies being reserved to priests and deacons). The original article never mentioned preaching during a homily but I think one post did express the idea that ‘it was shameful that women could not read the gospel or preach.’ Now, I think I was guilty in making the assumption here that since the only person who can read the gospel is a priest or deacon, that the poster was pretty much implying that women should have at least the FUNCTION of a priest (if not the title), or that it was shameful that women were NOT given the functions of priests. But of course, the original post did not make any claim for female priests.

Now, not every priest is a gifted speaker or homilist. . .and certainly there exist women who **are **gifted speakers and would be able to craft, and to ‘preach’ a ‘better’ homily than a given priest. But that doesn’t mean that they should be ‘able’ to do so.

Now, if we have gifted women who are able to meet with priests and other clergy, to engage in discussion, to give their ‘voice’ in such sessions, such that the priest will be better able to express himself in his homily. . .what a gift that would be. Would the women have a ‘voice?’ Surely they would. Would they be useful? Yes, indeed. Is their contribution ‘less’ because somebody else is the one who ultimately makes the homily though they have contributing to help him in creating that homily? No, I don’t think so. And I think this is what Sister was trying to encourage. . .more women to be engaged in groups like parish councils to speak out so that the priest could be aware of their voices and have a better understanding of those voices in order for him to give better homilies, better preaching, better teaching and better leadership all the way around. . .and at the same time, giving women a greater opportunity to be heard ‘throughout the Church’.

 

[Beautiful]

The day the Church ordains women is the day She ceases to be Catholic.

According to Canon 351, a Cardinal must at least be a priest. Meaning that a woman cannot become a cardinal.

The Diocese of Rochester, NY has put one foot in the grave by readily allowing women religious and laywomen give ‘reflections’ in lieu of a homily by a priest.

 

[Beautiful]

I do believe that women do indeed ‘preach’ in many ways (and not just using words). . .but that preaching cannot be given ‘during Mass’ as a homily (homilies being reserved to priests and deacons).

The article about Sister Ann Veronica (Post 6#) is evidence that this is true. She is one of many, many women who are Church soldiers. There have been women soldiers for Christ since Christ. The problem I find is that Sister Mary Luke applies popular ‘civil rights’ of the times to women of the Church. While it is true that you believe that women cannot preach during the Mass’ time reserved for the homily - it is happening here in DOR and few people are flinching anymore. Ten or more years ago there was an uproar but over time people seemed to be immune to women and layperson ‘homilists’. What would I have given for the internet ten years ago? This deterioration might not have happened.

 

[Beautiful]

According to the DOR website ‘news page’ Bishop Matthew Clark is 71 years old. Perhaps he will retire in four years and be replaced by another bishop who puts an end to liberalism and disobedience. If I don’t see a change with a new bishop then I’ll need to assume that this is the way the Church is going. That is - I belong to a church that isn’t really the Church.

 

[manualman]

Canon law is not inspired Scripture nor Tradition. It is merely the legal code of the church. The current practice of limiting the office of Cardinal to priests is fairly recent. Historically there were non-ordained married men as Cardinals.

Again, since the office of Cardinal is a creation of the disciplinary arm of the Church and not a subject of Divine revelation, the church is as free to change her disciplines on such matters as she is to decide the language of the liturgy, vestments of a priest, etc.

 

[Beautiful]

Personally, I exepect to see women as Cardinals in my lifetime. Faithful lifelong leaders of women’s religious congregations, not professional agitators. Unlike the episcopacy or priesthood, the office of Cardinal is not instituted by Christ and can be modified to allow the valuable voices of holy women a greater role in the hierarchy.

Are you suggesting that women will be Cardinals in your lifetime?
How long do you expect to live?