Violence on abortion workers is immoral

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One of the things that really concerns me personally is all these talks of revolution we are hearing from people fed up with the federal spending and inexitable tax hikes. There are lots of talks of another “civil war” or states just breaking off. But there are still people like me who live in VERY liberal and VERY prochoice states.

I guess I can see the necessity of change from within, because if it were a violent breakoff, there would be those of us left behind in the liberal states in a worse state than before, because the conservative states wouldn’t be fighting of those of us in the liberal states anymore.
 
Everyone who has posted here saying that violence is immoral, take out the word abortion and replace it with slavery. Sound familiar? Using that logic, the American Civil War was an unjust war, and Lincoln was an immoral man for imposing a set of beliefs on the rest of the country against their will, even though they were doing nothing illegal.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who sees consistent parallels with slavery, but I disagree with you here. The US Civil War was NOT started by Lincoln over slavery. Lincoln went to war with the South because they (arguably) illegally seceded from the United States of America. Now the primary reason they did so was “states rights” which was a code phrase for “states rights to permit chattle slavery.” (Just like “choice” is a dishonest code word today.)

It is not correct to state that the North went to war with the South to abolish slavery. That’s simply wrong history. At the start of the war Lincoln had no particular intention of ending slavery. It just became an inevitable part of what would be required to END the war once and for all.

But I DO think there is a good chance we’d not have had a civil war at all without the violent abolitionists like John Brown polarizing both sides and creating false demons in what were really flawed men on both sides. It may have taken longer to end slavery though without the civil war. History is a bloody thing. We need a Savior!
 
I tell my children that real life is not like math where a negative plus a negative equals a positive.

Killing is wrong no matter if the what ifs. We are christian and as such we believe that there is forgiveness. when christ was writting in the sand, what do you think he wrote?
It is also said that if you have broken one then you have broken all the commandments. So yesterday you lied, or stole, or bore false witness, or did not honor your father and mother. did you not also break the commandment of love? How do you know that by your sin you did not cause another to stumble and by doing cause them not to realize the love of christ in so doing cause them not only to die by the body but also by the spirit?

What if instead we all showed by example the love of Christ? Yes some in body will be lost in this world but is that our fault? we gave witness, We loved so who’s fault is it?

This talk of hurting another, tackling them to the floor or otherwise restraining them does not bear witness to the good we believe in. We are not violent, we do not repay wrong with wrong instead we repay wrong with love as Christ did himself.

Think Of chist what he went through for our sins, did he tackle them to the floor? No, instead he prayed for them. When they beat him, did he repay them with a curse, lift a hand against them? No, he loved them and a few were saved.

Christ could have come down from that cross, but he didn’t, he could have stopped the chastisement (in which he was innocent) but he didn’t, Yes our pain is great when we know that an innocent life has been lost but instead of offering up retribution we should instead offer up that much more love. We are called to love as Christ did, We are called to suffer as Christ did, We are not better than our master so why should we offer up what christ did not? Instead we should answer hate with love, answer hopelessness with love, answer hunger with love, and answer life itself with love. Do all that love would have you to do. Love not revenge.
 
Everyone who has posted here saying that violence is immoral, take out the word abortion and replace it with slavery. Sound familiar? Using that logic, the American Civil War was an unjust war, and Lincoln was an immoral man for imposing a set of beliefs on the rest of the country against their will, even though they were doing nothing illegal.

We are not immune from another civil war. Every time we have classified a group of people as less than human, we have regretted it later, and innocent people have always been among the suffering. If we are not willing to suffer, and to die if necessary, then we are guilty of doing nothing.

I am biased. My wife is African-American and a descendant of slavery. I am a veteran, as are my wife, our parents, and our grandparents. We believe freedom is not free.

According to doctrine, violence against abortion cannot occur unless the end goal is to replace the system that allowed abortion in the first place. That is not going to happen. This is where we are today. Change from within, but we must be patient, and vigilant.
Except the federal government didn’t attack the conferacy, the conferate states of america attacked the rest of the Union. More over the war, really was more about taxes than it was about slaves. So your argument here really falls in on it’s self when you start considering the historaical context of the war.

The civil war, from a federalist perspective was a war of self defence against a seperatist movement with in some of it’s sates.
 
I tell my children that real life is not like math where a negative plus a negative equals a positive.

Killing is wrong no matter if the what ifs. We are christian and as such we believe that there is forgiveness. when christ was writting in the sand, what do you think he wrote?
It is also said that if you have broken one then you have broken all the commandments. So yesterday you lied, or stole, or bore false witness, or did not honor your father and mother. did you not also break the commandment of love? How do you know that by your sin you did not cause another to stumble and by doing cause them not to realize the love of christ in so doing cause them not only to die by the body but also by the spirit?

What if instead we all showed by example the love of Christ? Yes some in body will be lost in this world but is that our fault? we gave witness, We loved so who’s fault is it?

This talk of hurting another, tackling them to the floor or otherwise restraining them does not bear witness to the good we believe in. We are not violent, we do not repay wrong with wrong instead we repay wrong with love as Christ did himself.

Think Of chist what he went through for our sins, did he tackle them to the floor? No, instead he prayed for them. When they beat him, did he repay them with a curse, lift a hand against them? No, he loved them and a few were saved.

Christ could have come down from that cross, but he didn’t, he could have stopped the chastisement (in which he was innocent) but he didn’t, Yes our pain is great when we know that an innocent life has been lost but instead of offering up retribution we should instead offer up that much more love. We are called to love as Christ did, We are called to suffer as Christ did, We are not better than our master so why should we offer up what christ did not? Instead we should answer hate with love, answer hopelessness with love, answer hunger with love, and answer life itself with love. Do all that love would have you to do. Love not revenge.
You make a very good point. However, I am weighing all of this against the fact that there are timesin the OT that God commands his people to kill the evildoers. In scripture Jesus also shows by example that there are times when it is necessary to drive out evil using force, by driving out the moneychangers from the temple with a whip. Also bear in mind that when Christ does come again, in revelation it states that he will come to destroy the wicked, and will ride on a white horse with a sword at his side.
 
Except the federal government didn’t attack the conferacy, the conferate states of america attacked the rest of the Union. More over the war, really was more about taxes than it was about slaves. So your argument here really falls in on it’s self when you start considering the historaical context of the war.

The civil war, from a federalist perspective was a war of self defence against a seperatist movement with in some of it’s sates.
The war wasn’t about slaves?! Where did you learn that? College? :rotfl: It’s obvious that the Confederacy believed that slavery would be outlawed. That had nothing to do with taxes either, since the North was industrial and wealthier than the South.

You want historical context, then explain this:

 
I didn’t say slavery didn’t play a role, but it was ultimatly a war of economics. Slavery however was used as a vehicle, for instance, on the part of the union to gain victory off the field as victory on the field was so sparse at first.
 
Lincoln’s Second Inaugural Address

Fellow-Countrymen:

At this second appearing to take the oath of the Presidential office there is less occasion for an extended address than there was at the first. Then a statement somewhat in detail of a course to be pursued seemed fitting and proper. Now, at the expiration of four years, during which public declarations have been constantly called forth on every point and phase of the great contest which still absorbs the attention and engrosses the energies of the nation, little that is new could be presented. The progress of our arms, upon which all else chiefly depends, is as well known to the public as to myself, and it is, I trust, reasonably satisfactory and encouraging to all. With high hope for the future, no prediction in regard to it is ventured.

On the occasion corresponding to this four years ago all thoughts were anxiously directed to an impending civil war. All dreaded it, all sought to avert it. While the inaugural address was being delivered from this place, devoted altogether to saving the Union without war, urgent agents were in the city seeking to destroy it without war—seeking to dissolve the Union and divide effects by negotiation. Both parties deprecated war, but one of them would make war rather than let the nation survive, and the other would accept war rather than let it perish, and the war came.

One-eighth of the whole population were colored slaves, not distributed generally over the Union, but localized in the southern part of it. These slaves constituted a peculiar and powerful interest. All knew that this interest was somehow the cause of the war. To strengthen, perpetuate, and extend this interest was the object for which the insurgents would rend the Union even by war, while the Government claimed no right to do more than to restrict the territorial enlargement of it. Neither party expected for the war the magnitude or the duration which it has already attained. Neither anticipated that the cause of the conflict might cease with or even before the conflict itself should cease. Each looked for an easier triumph, and a result less fundamental and astounding. Both read the same Bible and pray to the same God, and each invokes His aid against the other. It may seem strange that any men should dare to ask a just God’s assistance in wringing their bread from the sweat of other men’s faces, but let us judge not, that we be not judged. The prayers of both could not be answered. That of neither has been answered fully. The Almighty has His own purposes. “Woe unto the world because of offenses; for it must needs be that offenses come, but woe to that man by whom the offense cometh.” If we shall suppose that American slavery is one of those offenses which, in the providence of God, must needs come, but which, having continued through His appointed time, He now wills to remove, and that He gives to both North and South this terrible war as the woe due to those by whom the offense came, shall we discern therein any departure from those divine attributes which the believers in a living God always ascribe to Him? Fondly do we hope, fervently do we pray, that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue until all the wealth piled by the bondsman’s two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said "the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether."

With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in, to bind up the nation’s wounds, to care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow and his orphan, to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace among ourselves and with all nations.

~Saturday, March 4, 1865~

Regardless of how it started, that was certainly how it ended. I’ll say it again, take out the word “slavery” and replace it with “abortion”. We are quickly approaching a similar time today.

Will you fight with me when we are called? It is an honor that you can pass to your descendants. :knight1:

Think about it.
 
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