Violence permitted?

[The_Catholic]

I understand this concern, but I think you could go to etremes on both ends. On one hand we shouldn’t seek out violence so easily, willing to send many humans to the grave over an issue that shouldn’t be, I also could not see myself taking another human being’s life, on the other hand, we pbviously need police force, or an army. and must do what is right when attacked, and protect, otherwise be slaughtered by heathen nations and other heathen souls striving to do evil to aggend their own ways, and END all other ways who disagree with them.

God bless you

 

[The_Catholic]

Turning table over and hitting people with table are two very different things. Jesus in no way is using violence here againist another human. A student made that mistake in a class of mine thinking that Jesus struck someone, I was amazed to see how fast the other students corrected her on her error.

It’s also intersting that Christ says in Mark, I think, when a pharisee strikes him, that if He did evil, then the pharisee’s action, hitting, would be “just,” but if not, “then why do you hit me?”

I know what you mean man, I care not for violence, or war, but I think it is nessecary, especialy if our neighbors or border countries decided to become like Hitler, Stallon, etc.

 

[mahoneyt]

Luke 14:31 – Jesus acknowledges the legitimacy of war in this parable.

This parable has to do with the cost of discipleship, the kings going to war is an example of preparation. To say war is legitimated here is taking it out of narrative context.

Luke 19:27 – Jesus says “But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them before me.” Jesus teaches that not all killing is intrinsically evil.

Completely out of context, this is said by a character in Jesus’ parable not a command of Jesus. This parable “STORY” has nothing to do with Jesus commanding us to kill certain people.

Luke 22:36 – Jesus says “let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one.” Jesus encourages the legitimate defense against an aggressor.

Out of context, this is a about a reference to Isa 53:12 and how God will interceded even for the “trangressers”. This verse is right after the betrayel annoucement. Jesus is almost making fun of them for using the sword. This needs to be fulfiiled by Jesus no by the violent Messiah the Jews wanted. Also when he says “it is enough” he’s not saying two is enough swords, he’s saying don’t ever speak to me about weapons again.

Rom. 13:3-4 – Paul commends us to those in authority, and exalts a man who “does not bear the sword in vain.” Paul calls such a man “the servant of God to execute his wrath on the wrongdoer.”

Look up 1 Thess 4:6, again Context, read the whole Chapter. Read about the cultural context in play here and about submission to authority, and what “authority” Paul is talking about.

Obviously there is plenty of scripture emphasizing God’s desire to avoid war and conquer evil with good. There is nothing in Scripture says that legitimately defending oneself or one’s country which results in the killing of another is an intrinsically evil act.

Peace,

Ryan

I don’t mean to be harsh here or make you look stupid. People have used these same verses to make war, when in fact most times they have nothing to do with war. Example: we base our foriegn policy with Isreal based on reading revelation wrong.

 

[mahoneyt]

It’s also intersting that Christ says in Mark, I think, when a pharisee strikes him, that if He did evil, then the pharisee’s action, hitting, would be “just,” but if not, “then why do you hit me?”

I know what you mean man, I care not for violence, or war, but I think it is nessecary, especialy if our neighbors or border countries decided to become like Hitler, Stallon, etc.

Well lets use Hitler and Stalin. I’m sorry but its not the Christian way to go to war the way we did in WWII. We didn’t go into war to save the Chinese from getting slaughtered by the Japanese or the Jews from the Germans. We went to war because the United States and its allies were attacked and we fought back. Our logical moral reasoning was not, “the Japanese killed 200,000 people in one day by blowing up a dam, we have to stop this”.

Look at Ghandi, he used the teachings of Jesus and the call to non-violence (a Christian teaching, not a Hindu one) even when the British Governemnt would open fire on his people with machine guns, at one point killing 100 a day. By not fighting back he saved many of his people’s lives and kicked the British out.

When we make just war our first option, we have forgotten to pray. When we make just war our last option it means, we prayed but didn’t listen to what Jesus told us to do.

I understand my views are somewhat radical, I’m not say this is the only way but what I am saying lets try it. Because if I understand the Christian life fully, unless you are buidling the kingdom so much that people are threatening to kill you, you are not living up to your full potential.