Virgin Birth of Jesus?

[YHWH_Christ]

So I just started reading a book by Biblical Scholar Bruce Chilton called, “Rabbi Jesus: An Intimate Biography”. In it he basically states the virgin birth and nativity of Jesus are later Christian legends. He writes,

"Miriam, Mary as we know her, was some thirteen years old - the age Jewish maidens of that time married - when Jesus’ father, the widower Joseph, came to her village of Nazareth, in all likelihood to repair the house of her parents. Joseph was a journeyman from nearby Bethlehem, a roofer, stonemason, and rough carpenter…

The attraction between Joseph and Mary must have been immediate; they broke with custom and slept together soon after meeting and well before marriage was publicly recognized. Mary’s family had agreed to a contract of marriage with Joseph, but the couple was not yet living together when her pregnancy became obvious. The wording of the New Testament itself, although written many years after the events and richly laced with legends concerning Jesus’ birth, attests to this simple fact in Matthew 1:18…"

That precise statement in Matthew’s Gospel explains why, over time, Jesus was considered to be born of fornication by some and a product of miraculous birth by others. The early pregnancy touched off vicious rumors in Mary’s village of Nazareth… So, for the birth, Joseph had brought Mary to Bethlehem of Galilee, where he had lived with his first wife, to shield her from Nazareth’s wagging tongues.

Christmas cards, of course, make Bethlehem of Judea (near Jerusalem) the place of Jesus’ birth, instead of the far more logical Bethlehem of Galilee. This is because Matthew’s Gospel (2:1-6), written around the year 80 C.E. in Syrian Damascus, relates the nativity to a prediction in the book of the prophet Micah (5:2) regarding the coming of the Messiah from Judean Bethlehem. Matthew fills in details of Jesus’ birth by declaring that the events “fulfilled” texts from Scriptures of Israel. Another example of Messianic fulfillment is the Biblical text “Look, a maiden shall conceive,” culled from the book of Isaiah (7:14) and applied by Matthew to Mary’s conception of Jesus before she was actually living with Joseph (Matthew 1:22-23).

There’s a lot more but I am not going to list it all. How do we respond to claims like these that academic scholars make?

 

[ZMystiCat]

I haven’t read the whole book, but at least the quoted portions are no more than mere speculation without any meaningfully developed evidence.

 

[guanophore]

There’s a lot more but I am not going to list it all. How do we respond to claims like these that academic scholars make?

Find a better book to read!

Matthew 8:22 But Jesus said to him, “Follow me, and let the dead bury their own dead.”

Read a good Catholic biblical scholar. Learn your own faith thoroughly and avoid immersing yourself in such fictional speculations.

I haven’t read the whole book, but at least the quoted portions are no more than mere speculation without any meaningfully developed evidence.

in which case, it is time to put it down, and use your efforts/energy reading something that will help you grown in your faith.

 

[JerryZ]

Just because someone writes a book is no guarantee that the contents of that book are worth the value of the paper it is printed on. Also “scholar” has to be taken with a grain of salt. Many people claim to be “scholars” but in reality are fools.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

Bruce Chilton

Mr. Chilton may be an academic, but his work here is mere imagination. He is also a cleric in the Church of England, which is shocking, considering that he denies the Divinity of Christ.

 

[BoomerangToo]

The enormous amount of one-star reviews on Amazon should tell you all you need to know about this author and his book:

“The 1-star that I gave is still too much.”

“I hate this book…”

“Wasted money…tragic that I spent several hours of my life reading such trivia.”

“This is a book of fiction with some historical fact thrown in.”

“I THREW THIS BOOK IN THE TRASH Not even giving it to Salvation Army.”

“…Then we’re told that Jesus was short and skinny because of malnutrition owing to the diet imposed on him as a follower of John the Baptizer…”

“If you like fiction, Chilton’s book is for you.”

“Where is this guy getting this information?”

“What is he talking about?”

“You’ve got to be kidding me.”

“I paid money for this?”

“It stunk”

And my favorite!:

“It was like passing a kidney stone…”

 

[YHWH_Christ]

It has 3 and half stars on Amazon…

“Open this book and see Jesus as you’ve never seen him . . . This is one heck of a good read. And it left me feeling better than ever about the Jesus we try to serve and follow.” – National Catholic Reporter

That’s a review from the National Catholic Reporter…

 

[ZMystiCat]

The enormous amount of one-star reviews on Amazon should tell you all you need to know about this author and his book

It has 3 and half stars on Amazon…

Personally, I’ll take the Amazon reviews with an ocean full of salt. From what little I read, it is about what you’d expect for a controversial book of this nature: some people give it 5 star seemingly for just upsetting Fundamentalists, and some people give it 1 star because they are said Fundamentalists.

 

[poche]

If a biblical scholar 's “insights” contradict basis tenents of the creed then I recommend that you disregard what he says.

 

[Rob2]

Rabbi Jesus: An Intimate Biography by Bruce Chilton

 

[MT1926]

In it he basically states the virgin birth and nativity of Jesus are later Christian legends

OK So he is claiming the Catholic Church did not teach the virgin birth and nativity for 200 years after the resurrection. From my google searches I found it takes about two centuries for something to be considered “legend”.

This makes me ask where is his evidence for this…

came to her village of Nazareth, in all likelihood to repair the house of her parents.

or how about…

they broke with custom and slept together soon after meeting

I like this one…

but the couple was not yet living together when her pregnancy became obvious.

Seriously? A betrothal back then often lasted up to a year. So he is claiming she was pregnant even before the betrothal?

I wouldn’t waste your time on books like these. People that make claims that this must be a legend because it wasn’t written about for 100 years. I know this for a fact because here is my evidence written by a guy in the year 1200. Please, this guy is just trying to make a quick buck.

Try this book instead…

Behold Your Mother: A Biblical and Historical Defense of the Marian Doctrines (Paperback) Mary

God Bless

 

[Wesrock]

I haven’t read the whole book, but at least the quoted portions are no more than mere speculation without any meaningfully developed evidence.

This. The writer has no additional sources. He just assumes that Christianity is false and so then does his own speculating based on the gospel narratives.

 

[Fauken]

That’s a review from the National Catholic Reporter…

If it’s endorsed by them, that’s a sign for me to avoid it.

The most Catholic thing about them is that they have the word “Catholic” in their name.

 

[Roguish]

There’s a lot more but I am not going to list it all. How do we respond to claims like these that academic scholars make?

Basically, you don’t. Why respond at all? Faith and scholarship don’t necessarily combine very well, not even if it’s biblical scholarship. If a scholar insists on having a debate with you, feel free to tell him that you just don’t care about his evidence, and that you believe that Christ was conceived of a Virgin because you know in your heart that that is the right thing to believe. (And I hope you do know that.)

 

[Hodos]

There’s a lot more but I am not going to list it all. How do we respond to claims like these that academic scholars make?

That’s pretty easy, ask him to show his primary source material stating that the virgin birth didn’t happen. All he is presenting in his argument is unproven assumptions that essentially ignore the closest historical sources that we have about Christ’s birth (Gospels of Matthew and Luke), which essentially present the narrative of Jesus birth from the viewpoints of Joseph (Matthew) and Mary (Luke). His argument is based entirely on speculation with zero primary sources to substantiate his claim.

 

[ZMystiCat]

A more likely story, which is supported by Jewish legend and archeological evidence

The link you gave literally says:

The hypothesis is considered unlikely by mainstream scholars given that there is little other evidence to support the Pantera paternity outside of the Jewish texts

It is, again, essentially speculation on the part of someone who already rejected the Virgin Birth and sought an alternative story.

 

[phoage]

YHWH_Christ

I do not have my reference books here with me now so I can provide no sources but they arereadily available.

Luke was in Ephesus at the time Mary was living with John after the Ascension. It is believed that he interviewed her when writing his gospel. This would have been within 30 years or so of Christ on earth.

Early contemporary and near contemporary histories all speak of the virgin birth including some that would have been anti-christian (see Flavius Josephus)

The early church fathers all speak of a virgin birth and there is no contemporary evidence of nay sayers.

I would like to see the guy’s primary sources.

Remember, all the problems in the world are caused by the New World Order who are in cahoots with the Vatican and Space Aliens.

Patrick
AMDG

 

[YHWH_Christ]

That’s in the Talmud.

 

[Richca]

YHWH_Christ:

That’s a review from the National Catholic Reporter…

If it’s endorsed by them, that’s a sign for me to avoid it.

The most Catholic thing about them is that they have the word “Catholic” in their name.

Yes, unfortunately, the National Catholic Reporter is about as credible as the book and its author the OP cites which isn’t credible at all. I would avoid both like the plague.

 

[ZMystiCat]

that Mary fell in love with a much older carpenter man…Why would a free Jewish girl of a young age choose to marry a much older working class fellow who was not rich?

I think you’re approaching this way too much like a modern Western romance. Mary probably had very little say in her husband regardless of her free/slave status. It might have been negotiated by her father. Some ancient Christian sources say that she was a temple virgin, and Joseph was more a guardian than traditional husband, but that’s still not absolutely certain despite hints in Scripture at intending to remain a virgin. Either way, it probably didn’t follow anything resembling a modern romantic relationship.