Virgin Birth

[cryptic]

Thanks all for your replies…

japhy -

But by “re-engineering” God to be some “reality” which exists in everyone and everything, it ends up not being God Who can do all things, but us, if we just “try hard enough” or “think that we can do it”. That’s a very self-centered approach, I think.

Christianity is not about “tapping into” yourself: it is about humility and abandonment of self to God, through Whom we receive our selves renewed. But our trust and hope and faith is still in God, not in ourselves.

Good point and I agree with your definition of Christianity. I do not have the answers to your questions, since I was just sharing my view on things, based on my own life experiences. I grew up Catholic. Having been through an abusive childhood and then depression and low self-esteem issues for many years, I needed help. The only way I recovered from everything was through “tapping into myself.” I had prayed and all I wanted was how to change. How do I change, since nothing else was working?

Some will say that God helped me recover, just not at the time when I asked for it…and I understand and thats fine. I just needed a way to understand and interpret what it all meant, and I found the way that works for me…by looking internally, rather than externally.

I realized that I offered a “non-Christian” view afterwards…just offered another point of view that’s all.

JimG -

Neither the virgin birth nor the resurrection have ever been understood in the history of the Church to be merely symbolic.

-Understood.

Thoughts turning into feelings and feelings turning into reality seems a little detached from reality to me.

-Ok.

Neithan -

Thanks for your reply, cryptic, but your interpretation is much too esoteric, and smacks of Modernism–a debunked 20th century heresy that basically tried to subjectivize the central tenets of the Faith, turning concrete historical facts into metaphysical symbols. Its echoes can still be heard in the Church amongst the scattered adherents of today’s dwindling Catholic dissidents.

• Ahh, I see. Yes, I do admit that I lack the deep faith in Christianity (of which I wish I had), simply because I cannot grasp the concepts and it is very difficult for me to understand. So, in order to make sense of everything, I studied different religions and read various books. I basically grew up without going to church, ventured on my own, and just tried to make sense out of everything on my own. I know I don’t know much compared to others of the Faith, but it was the path I took to help myself. The only thing I had was myself at the time.

Having read and thought more about this amazing dogma, I do think that the best way to understand it is something akin to the Transfiguration happening at Christ’s Birth.

-Great.

I apologize for not realizing my initial post was non-Christian. Just thought it would help by offering another point of view. However, I see now, it wasn’t helpful since the point of view was the opposite of Christianity.

I do appreciate everyone’s response because your questions made me think, and however difficult it is for me to understand certain things, I do try to make sense out of them by attending mass (just recently began attending again, but still lost).

So thanks again for your responses and I’m glad Neithan that you were able to get a better understanding of the Virgin’s Birth.

 

[japhy]

I just needed a way to understand and interpret what it all meant…

I lack the deep faith in Christianity, simply because I cannot grasp the concepts and it is very difficult for me to understand…

… however difficult it is for me to understand certain things, I do try to make sense out of them by attending mass (just recently began attending again, but still lost)…

First, I thank God that He is working in your life to arouse your interest in the Catholic faith and in the Mass again. Also, and please do not be offended or take this the wrong way, but it would appropriate for you to refrain from receiving Holy Communion until you can accept the Catholic faith (especially about the Eucharist!).

Second, I think I’ve discovered part of the difficulty you’re having with the Christian faith, and it is, perhaps, rooted in your attempts at “looking internally” and “tapping into yourself”. The Christian faith is not always easy to understand – take the doctrines on the Trinity, the Incarnation, or the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist… those are very tricky to explain. But the Scriptures do not say, “without understanding it is impossible to please God,” but rather, “without faith it is impossible to please him.” (Hebrews 11:6) God does not require us to understand the faith completely, but only to accept it. That means going outside ourselves, accepting His Word instead of our own, trusting His power rather than our own. It means, in essence, to be humble.

Please take these words in a spirit of Christian charity; they are meant to help build you up, not to discourage you. If all you can believe is only that which you can understand, then you will always be your own limit; but if you can trust God and believe in Him even when you do not understand, if you can “walk by faith, and not by sight,” then there is no limit apart from what God has willed for you.

Peace be to you!

 

[Neithan]

Please take these words in a spirit of Christian charity; they are meant to help build you up, not to discourage you. If all you can believe is only that which you can understand, then you will always be your own limit; but if you can trust God and believe in Him even when you do not understand, if you can “walk by faith, and not by sight,” then there is no limit apart from what God has willed for you.

Peace be to you!

Well said!
Also remembering that both sight and faith are good; the Church encourages us to walk with both, being God’s gifts, one natural and the other supernatural. We walk in the Spirit with both eyes open, using sight to take us as far as it can go, but always in harmony with the enlightenment of faith, allowing the latter to guide us where we can’t see clearly.

 

[Holly3278]

I’ve been thinking about this dogma lately, and it puzzles me.

How is it possible that Mary remained a virgin *during *the birth of Christ!? I couldn’t even imagine that! And if something isn’t even possible in the realm of fantasy, how could it be possible in reality?

The *Catholic Encyclopedia *article says:

(emphasis mine)
What does this mean exactly? Was the infant body of Jesus “transfigured” in the womb, and thereby passed out of Mary without damaging her virginity?

Thanks for any help!

Virginity does not depend on whether or not a person gives birth but whether or not a person has sexual intercourse.

 

[japhy]

Also remembering that both sight and faith are good; the Church encourages us to walk with both, being God’s gifts, one natural and the other supernatural. We walk in the Spirit with both eyes open, using sight to take us as far as it can go, but always in harmony with the enlightenment of faith, allowing the latter to guide us where we can’t see clearly.

Right. Pope John Paul II’s Fides et Ratio (“Faith and Reason”) is an excellent testimony to the Catholic approach to knowing God. God can be known (partially) by reason, and the gift of that ability to know God in part by human reasoning is meant to lead us deeper into knowledge of God through faith. And faith does seek understanding, but knows that now we only see darkly, as through a dirty mirror, but then (in Heaven) we shall see Him as He is.

 

[cryptic]

First, I thank God that He is working in your life to arouse your interest in the Catholic faith and in the Mass again. Also, and please do not be offended or take this the wrong way, but it would appropriate for you to refrain from receiving Holy Communion until you can accept the Catholic faith (especially about the Eucharist!).

• Don’t worry, I am not…I know not to do that.

Second, I think I’ve discovered part of the difficulty you’re having with the Christian faith, and it is, perhaps, rooted in your attempts at “looking internally” and “tapping into yourself”. The Christian faith is not always easy to understand – take the doctrines on the Trinity, the Incarnation, or the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist… those are very tricky to explain. But the Scriptures do not say, “without understanding it is impossible to please God,” but rather, “without faith it is impossible to please him.” (Hebrews 11:6) God does not require us to understand the faith completely, but only to accept it. That means going outside ourselves, accepting His Word instead of our own, trusting His power rather than our own. It means, in essence, to be humble.

Please take these words in a spirit of Christian charity; they are meant to help build you up, not to discourage you. If all you can believe is only that which you can understand, then you will always be your own limit; but if you can trust God and believe in Him even when you do not understand, if you can “walk by faith, and not by sight,” then there is no limit apart from what God has willed for you.

Peace be to you!

• This helps me understand better - Thank you very much!