Virgin dating a non-virgin. How do I deal with it?

[Miss_Ramajan]

I need some advice on how to cope with something that is causing me some sorrow. In May of 2010, I met a Catholic man (John) a first cousin of one of my best friends. I had heard of him from my friend for years and had talked to him occasionally via the internet, but was never interested because he had the same girlfriend for 4 years and I assumed, was shortly to be engaged and married. When we met, he and his girlfriend had just broken up, as things were not working out for them and she had taken a job across the country. Initially, I didn’t ask too many questions about his past relationship, and assumed that they broke up due to the distance.

He asked me out two weeks after our meeting. We went out every weekend and after about a month, we had completely fallen for each other. However, after a month of dating, he informed me that he was not a virgin, and had intercourse with his ex girlfriend, on a very steady basis, for 4 years. As he comes from a devout, conservative, Catholic family, as do I, I was totally shocked and crushed. I too had been in a 4 year relationship, and could understand it being hard to remain perfectly chaste, but I simply couldn’t process the idea of 4 years of such steady sin. I nearly broke up with him, but a friend advised me to pray about it and to talk with him.

He told me that he was attracted to me because I was many thing his ex girlfriend wasn’t; a good Catholic woman committed to the faith, with the potential to make a good wife and mother. He knew from the outset that sexual satisfaction would never be a part of our dating, nor was he seeking it. I decided to put the past behind us, to move forward in our relationship, and to see where it would lead, on the condition that premarital sex would have no part in it. He gladly agreed.

The bump in the road of our dating (me finding out about his lost virginity) brought about a strengthening of our relationship, in some respects. We had many discussions about it and I later found out that he had much guilt associated with how he had lived, that he wanted to be a better Catholic, and that he valued me, more than anything, as a spiritual role model and peer, something his ex wasn’t, and sincerely wishes he had waited for his future wife. Our relationship has developed into a very beautiful thing, with our faith as the main focus, and with our primary goal, that of trying to assist each other get to heaven. We go to Mass together, pray the rosary and say novenas on a daily basis for the intention that we follow God’s will in our relationship. He just finished school and already has a fantastic job, so we are considering getting engaged and married this year.

I can confidently say that I love him very deeply, that he would make an amazing husband and father, and I am almost to the point where I can’t imagine life without him. But here is where I need advice. Though he has made heroic efforts in coming back to the faith, in living a good life, trying to be a better Catholic, and in loving and respecting me, it still makes me sick at heart to know how he had lived. While I was never perfect either, I waited, as did my ex boyfriend, I have waited for marriage for intercourse. I know that God can and does forgive John if he is truly sorry for his sins, and I must also forgive him, which I do. But just the knowledge of it seems to try and eat away at my happiness. It isn’t that I am jealous of his ex…it is more that I love John and his soul so much, that it makes me sick at heart to know that such a sin touched him for so long. It is a sadness I cannot seem to shake.

John’s view on sex has changed radically since we have been dating, greatly due to the fact that (on his own) he has been reading Catholic literature regarding it and is completely committed to doing the right thing. I so admire and respect him for it. We both take our chastity very seriously, and he has bent over backwards to keep our relationship chaste in every respect. And yet, to know his old habits and views still hurts. But one friend said to me “When it all comes down to it, mortal sins all level out, and they are all offensive to God, and we have ALL sinned.” This is how I have tried to cope with it, knowing that I too have grievously offended God. But the haunting memories of his past…I can’t seem to shake…I don’t want them to cause problems for our relationship, while dating, engaged or married.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how I should deal with this? Yes, I would prefer that he was a virgin, but I can honestly say that this man has more respect and genuine love for me than my virgin boyfriend did. My gut says not to pass up that respect and real love for his past sins. Please pray for me.

In Christ,
Mary

 

[Miss_Ramajan]

I am in a similar situation… I try to leave the past behind but it haunts me as if i am responsible for it…

 

[Petaro]

Forgiveness means forgetting and willing that loss of memory into every interaction. You do not bring it up in a fight. You do not use it against him to justify some selfish act on your part in the relationship. If you truly forgive him it never happened.
Many women would grab him in a second if he is as you describe him now.
If you cannot truly forgive him then move on and give him a chance to find a real wife.
He was in a different spiritual place back there. He says you are leading him towards Jesus. Ask yourself what would Jesus do ? We live in a fool’s world if we expect perfection in the future husband. You expect perfection from the past as well, which he can never change. Too hard a pearl when the price is impossible.

 

[ktmeyer]

I never said I haven’t forgiven him. I have. I do not hold it against him. He knows my past mistakes and forgives me too. For me, I can and willingly forgive, but it is just hard to forget. I don’t mean that to sound petty or anything. I just find it very saddening that his virginity, which should have been saved for his future wife (at this point, it is not guaranteed to be me), was given to someone who should not taken it from him. I regret, for him, the harm he did to his soul, her soul and the offense they gave to God. I know he has repented. But what about her? So much sin that could have been avoided, just seems very sad to me.

Do you also feel this sad about any lies he has told in his past? About any anger he has felt? About any other of his sins? If you only feel this way about this one sin, it isn’t the sinfulness that gets you, it’s jealousy.

The church doesn’t teach that virginity is a gift. It teaches that sex is designed for marraige. He isn’t spoiled goods. He’s just as good and clean and pure as any other sinner. He just commited a different sin than you.

 

[Onegin]

Do you also feel this sad about any lies he has told in his past? About any anger he has felt? About any other of his sins? If you only feel this way about this one sin, it isn’t the sinfulness that gets you, it’s jealousy.

The church doesn’t teach that virginity is a gift. It teaches that sex is designed for marraige. He isn’t spoiled goods. He’s just as good and clean and pure as any other sinner. He just commited a different sin than you.

Exactly. For some reason, people tend to get hung up on certain sins.
If he has already gone to confession and God has forgiven his sins, then what obstacle is there? Perhaps we hold others to a higher standard of forgiveness than God does?

In any event, we all have certain sins we struggle with. I’m assuming that the OP, like all of us, is not unique in this regard, but somehow has decided that his sin is worse, or more scandalous, or not deserving of the same forgiveness?

 

[Pancras]

Hmm. What I am getting from your post is, more than anything else, lingering doubt about whether your boyfriend has truly repented of his past actions, or whether this is more a case of a man deciding to settle down after “sowing his wild oats” without any true realization that his previous lifestyle was sinful. Is there also doubt about whether the disordered way he viewed sex in the past has truly gone away, or if he’s just repressing his urges right now because he knows that’s the only way to “win” you?

Now, I admit that I tend to be cynical about relationships, but what jumps out at me is what this man has told you about his ex-girlfriend, and how morally and spiritually superior you are to her. If he says he sees you as having what it takes to be a good wife and mother, which he didn’t see in his ex, does that mean he never planned to marry or commit to her, that he basically used her for sex and dumped her when he was ready to settle down with a “good girl”? Or was it more that he was blinded by hormones into thinking he was in love, and realized after wasting a lot of time that she wasn’t the right woman for him? If I were in your shoes, I could happily forgive the latter, but not as sure if I could forgive the former.

So to me, the crux of the matter is, does your boyfriend realize that his actions were sinful not just against his “future wife” (not to mention his own body, and God), but against the ex-girlfriend too? Or does he believe he didn’t do anything wrong to her because she wanted it too? If he has that idea, that “good girls” deserve respect but “bad girls” don’t, then I’d wonder if that’s what he’d be teaching his own son, that if a “good girl” asks you to wait 'till marriage you should respect her, but it’s fine to use “bad girls” for sexual pleasure.

Also, unlike some Protestant denominations, the Catholic Church’s concept of sexuality goes far beyond “don’t do it before marriage because God said so”. Does your boyfriend agree with Catholic teaching on chastity after marriage…no contraception, no porn, no lusting after your spouse? Unfortunately, some men, even after marriage, still see sex as an inherently selfish act where the purpose is to attain sexual pleasure for himself, and that the wife has a duty to please him this way.

I guess another aspect to this is, do you see him as being a spiritual leader in your home, or do you see him as somehow relying on you to keep himself on the straight and narrow, as if you were his babysitter, not his helpmate. As you may have noticed in your own church, in many families, it is the wife/mother who is responsible for getting everyone to church and in doling out the daily discipline. Do you wonder whether you will end up in this role?

Those, I think, would be legitimate doubts. However, if none of these things apply to your boyfriend, and he truly has repented, gone to Confession, is a new man, and has done all this not just to please you, but because of sincere repentance, that if, say, you were hit by a bus on the way to the wedding and died, he wouldn’t go right back to his old ways…then I think it would be an error for you to turn him away.

This was a good response. I would add that you ought to consider his own family life: Are his parents divorced? Was his father faithful in his marriage, or did he “fool around?” All too often children tend to follow the example of their parents in morality. You ought to consider what kind of family life your boyfriend had as a child growing up. I don’t see any mention of that here, and it’s possible that you haven’t thought about it this way. Consider whether you would be happy living a life that is much like what his parents lived in regards to family interaction and attitudes toward each other. Would you like to have children that are like him and his sibling(s)? Was he an only child? You didn’t say.

In future years, you will realize that at this time you were too focused on yourself, your feelings about him, how he treats you, what he said to you, etc. All that is important, to be sure, but also, don’t overlook the broader picture, that is, in future years you might find yourself accusing yourself of having been so blind, like this: “How could I have ignored how secretive his father had been, when it was later discovered that he had had affairs on business trips?” Or, “Why would I have paid no attention to his attachment to his ‘favorite uncle’ who was a closet homosexual?” These are just examples. The point is, find out about his family and his family life, because when you get married, you’re becoming attached to family history as well as to the person you marry.
.

Note: Angeles2010 came in January and posted this OP and two replies in two days, with a total of 3 posts, and has not returned.

Join Date: January 3, 2011
Posts: 3
Religion: Catholic

She could have been married to John by now. My response, above, is not just to her but to anyone else reading this thread, as I am talking about principles involved in this topic.
.

 

[EasterJoy]

Do you also feel this sad about any lies he has told in his past? About any anger he has felt? About any other of his sins? If you only feel this way about this one sin, it isn’t the sinfulness that gets you, it’s jealousy.

The church doesn’t teach that virginity is a gift. It teaches that sex is designed for marraige. He isn’t spoiled goods. He’s just as good and clean and pure as any other sinner. He just commited a different sin than you.

I think if a poster were posting about concerns that they found their boyfriend or girlfriend had ruined their credit score, people might understand better than they seem to when a boyfriend or girlfriend has a past that includes sexual impurity.

Some would say “if they haven’t always paid their bills in the past, don’t marry them.” Some would say, “well, do they pay their bills now? Do they realize that it takes a long time to erase a bad credit score?” Some would say, “Did they declare bankruptcy, or did they just run out on their bills?” And so on. There would be a realization that there was both the mark of the misconduct and the question about whether the person is capable of being financially responsible forever after. If someone has a perfect credit score and has never so much as sent in their monthly payment in full a day late, it is understood that they might be leery about someone who is a bit loosey-goosey about bill-paying. There are some, however, who believe that sexual ethics are an entirely different matter in the realm of self-control and trust. Well, it is, but it isnt’.

 

[Pancras]

I am in a similar situation… I try to leave the past behind but it haunts me as if i am responsible for it…

I find it interesting that this post, above, was made 5 months after the thread had been dormant in January after only two days of action, and yet, the thread has been allowed to go on “revived” from its erstwhile dormancy – even though quite often, such ‘reviving’ posts are deleted on CAF and threads sent back to their lonely state of dormancy, and sometimes they’re locked as well, to be sure nobody “revives” them. But not here. Is it because this is a topic that is appropriate for all time since people might have the same situation later? That is, while it is an “old story” in particular, it touches on “current issues” in general? I’d like to understand the principle of operation, that is being practiced on CAF, more clearly.
.

 

[Luvz2travel]

I need some advice on how to cope with something that is causing me some sorrow. In May of 2010, I met a Catholic man (John) a first cousin of one of my best friends. I had heard of him from my friend for years and had talked to him occasionally via the internet, but was never interested because he had the same girlfriend for 4 years and I assumed, was shortly to be engaged and married. When we met, he and his girlfriend had just broken up, as things were not working out for them and she had taken a job across the country. Initially, I didn’t ask too many questions about his past relationship, and assumed that they broke up due to the distance.

He asked me out two weeks after our meeting. We went out every weekend and after about a month, we had completely fallen for each other. However, after a month of dating, he informed me that he was not a virgin, and had intercourse with his ex girlfriend, on a very steady basis, for 4 years. As he comes from a devout, conservative, Catholic family, as do I, I was totally shocked and crushed. I too had been in a 4 year relationship, and could understand it being hard to remain perfectly chaste, but I simply couldn’t process the idea of 4 years of such steady sin. I nearly broke up with him, but a friend advised me to pray about it and to talk with him.

He told me that he was attracted to me because I was many thing his ex girlfriend wasn’t; a good Catholic woman committed to the faith, with the potential to make a good wife and mother. He knew from the outset that sexual satisfaction would never be a part of our dating, nor was he seeking it. I decided to put the past behind us, to move forward in our relationship, and to see where it would lead, on the condition that premarital sex would have no part in it. He gladly agreed.

The bump in the road of our dating (me finding out about his lost virginity) brought about a strengthening of our relationship, in some respects. We had many discussions about it and I later found out that he had much guilt associated with how he had lived, that he wanted to be a better Catholic, and that he valued me, more than anything, as a spiritual role model and peer, something his ex wasn’t, and sincerely wishes he had waited for his future wife. Our relationship has developed into a very beautiful thing, with our faith as the main focus, and with our primary goal, that of trying to assist each other get to heaven. We go to Mass together, pray the rosary and say novenas on a daily basis for the intention that we follow God’s will in our relationship. He just finished school and already has a fantastic job, so we are considering getting engaged and married this year.

I can confidently say that I love him very deeply, that he would make an amazing husband and father, and I am almost to the point where I can’t imagine life without him. But here is where I need advice. Though he has made heroic efforts in coming back to the faith, in living a good life, trying to be a better Catholic, and in loving and respecting me, it still makes me sick at heart to know how he had lived. While I was never perfect either, I waited, as did my ex boyfriend, I have waited for marriage for intercourse. I know that God can and does forgive John if he is truly sorry for his sins, and I must also forgive him, which I do. But just the knowledge of it seems to try and eat away at my happiness. It isn’t that I am jealous of his ex…it is more that I love John and his soul so much, that it makes me sick at heart to know that such a sin touched him for so long. It is a sadness I cannot seem to shake.

John’s view on sex has changed radically since we have been dating, greatly due to the fact that (on his own) he has been reading Catholic literature regarding it and is completely committed to doing the right thing. I so admire and respect him for it. We both take our chastity very seriously, and he has bent over backwards to keep our relationship chaste in every respect. And yet, to know his old habits and views still hurts. But one friend said to me “When it all comes down to it, mortal sins all level out, and they are all offensive to God, and we have ALL sinned.” This is how I have tried to cope with it, knowing that I too have grievously offended God. But the haunting memories of his past…I can’t seem to shake…I don’t want them to cause problems for our relationship, while dating, engaged or married.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how I should deal with this? Yes, I would prefer that he was a virgin, but I can honestly say that this man has more respect and genuine love for me than my virgin boyfriend did. My gut says not to pass up that respect and real love for his past sins. Please pray for me.

In Christ,
Mary

What ever his past was it’s not really your business. If he’s changed and respects how you feel I don’t really see what the issue is. Be happy you found a guy willing to respect your values. I have yet to find a guy will to consider dating without benefits so to speak. One guy I dated told me I never wood and so far he’s been proved right. Honestly it’s between him and God anyway. God is the only one that need to forgive him not you. If you can’t get over the fact that you weren’t the first and you feel likes it’s something you can’t move past then do the dude a favor and let him go. To hold sins over over is like casting the first stone in my opinion. Especially if they’ve changed their ways. We all have our faults and sins. So stop looking for stuff to be upset about…just saying.

 

[EasterJoy]

I find it interesting that this post, above, was made 5 months after the thread had been dormant in January after only two days of action, and yet, the thread has been allowed to go on “revived” from its erstwhile dormancy – even though quite often, such ‘reviving’ posts are deleted on CAF and threads sent back to their lonely state of dormancy, and sometimes they’re locked as well, to be sure nobody “revives” them. But not here. Is it because this is a topic that is appropriate for all time since people might have the same situation later? That is, while it is an “old story” in particular, it touches on “current issues” in general? I’d like to understand the principle of operation, that is being practiced on CAF, more clearly.
.

Oh, thank you! I had not noticed it, but this thread was started in** 2011**. It needs to be left to rest in peace.

 

[bmaj]

Hmm. What I am getting from your post is, more than anything else, lingering doubt about whether your boyfriend has truly repented of his past actions, or whether this is more a case of a man deciding to settle down after “sowing his wild oats” without any true realization that his previous lifestyle was sinful. Is there also doubt about whether the disordered way he viewed sex in the past has truly gone away, or if he’s just repressing his urges right now because he knows that’s the only way to “win” you?

Now, I admit that I tend to be cynical about relationships, but what jumps out at me is what this man has told you about his ex-girlfriend, and how morally and spiritually superior you are to her. If he says he sees you as having what it takes to be a good wife and mother, which he didn’t see in his ex, does that mean he never planned to marry or commit to her, that he basically used her for sex and dumped her when he was ready to settle down with a “good girl”? Or was it more that he was blinded by hormones into thinking he was in love, and realized after wasting a lot of time that she wasn’t the right woman for him? …
So to me, the crux of the matter is, does your boyfriend realize that his actions were sinful not just against his “future wife” (not to mention his own body, and God), but against the ex-girlfriend too? Or does he believe he didn’t do anything wrong to her because she wanted it too? If he has that idea, that “good girls” deserve respect but “bad girls” don’t, then I’d wonder if that’s what he’d be teaching his own son, that if a “good girl” asks you to wait 'till marriage you should respect her, but it’s fine to use “bad girls” for sexual pleasure. Also, unlike some Protestant denominations, the Catholic Church’s concept of sexuality goes far beyond “don’t do it before marriage because God said so”. ** Does your boyfriend agree with Catholic teaching on chastity after** marriage…no contraception, no porn, no lusting after your spouse? Unfortunately, some men, even after marriage, still see sex as an inherently selfish act where the purpose is to attain sexual pleasure for himself, and that the wife has a duty to please him this way. …Those, I think, would be legitimate doubts. However, if none of these things apply to your boyfriend, and he truly has repented, gone to Confession, is a new man, and has done all this not just to please you, but because of sincere repentance, that if, say, you were hit by a bus on the way to the wedding and died, he wouldn’t go right back to his old ways…then I think it would be an error for you to turn him away.

These are some very good points that ToeInTheWater makes… I haven’t read through all the pages of this thread, but I would recommend to the OP that she bear these warnings/thoughts in mind!

 

[tweedlealice]

Oh Angeles 2010.
I am sure he has gone to confession and God has forgiven him and hopefully, he has forgiven himself now. Surely, you can forgive him. When I was in nursing school in 1967, a few of us were engaged to be married. We were quite naive. Someone bought a proper? book on what happens on our wedding nights. We were 19 25 yo’s. So, this sentence said something about titillating our chests. I am using purer words here. So, we had to go look up titillate. Innocence and naivete were such a treasure. I feel so sorry for girls today who are sexually active at 9yo. We were married 5 years till we found out about another form of sex I will not bring up here, though it is allowed and enjoyed by many.
I am wondering if 20% of your feelings are justifiably from the purity issue and how many could be from a jealousy issue. As they sing in frozen," Let it go, let it go…"
He sounds like a treasure. I heard a sermon once on a TV. Through prayer, absolution and true repentance a person could have a return of a spiritual virginity. I believe w your help and the work that he has done. He is a spiritual virgin, again.

I like to back up things w scripture. Jeremiah 29:11 Here is where you will have to look up the verse. I only recall part." Your sins were as red as blood and now they are as white as snow. Then, Your sins are cast into the sea of forgetfulness. If this keeps haunting you, it will be turning into a sin for you. Don’t know the name of it but if someone is forgiven through the confessional and you can’t let it go, your operating against God.
Don’t let the enemy steal your joy.
In Christs’ Love, tweedlealice

 

[EasterJoy]

Oh Angeles 2010.
I am sure he has gone to confession and God has forgiven him and hopefully, he has forgiven himself now. Surely, you can forgive him. When I was in nursing school in 1967, a few of us were engaged to be married. We were quite naive. Someone bought a proper? book on what happens on our wedding nights. We were 19 25 yo’s. So, this sentence said something about titillating our chests. I am using purer words here. So, we had to go look up titillate. Innocence and naivete were such a treasure. I feel so sorry for girls today who are sexually active at 9yo. We were married 5 years till we found out about another form of sex I will not bring up here, though it is allowed and enjoyed by many.
I am wondering if 20% of your feelings are justifiably from the purity issue and how many could be from a jealousy issue. As they sing in frozen," Let it go, let it go…"
He sounds like a treasure. I heard a sermon once on a TV. Through prayer, absolution and true repentance a person could have a return of a spiritual virginity. I believe w your help and the work that he has done. He is a spiritual virgin, again.

I like to back up things w scripture. Jeremiah 29:11 Here is where you will have to look up the verse. I only recall part." Your sins were as red as blood and now they are as white as snow. Then, Your sins are cast into the sea of forgetfulness. If this keeps haunting you, it will be turning into a sin for you. Don’t know the name of it but if someone is forgiven through the confessional and you can’t let it go, your operating against God.
Don’t let the enemy steal your joy.
In Christs’ Love, tweedlealice

This thread was started a long time ago, so the OP (original poster) is very unlikely to be reading it any more.

 

[tweedlealice]

This thread was started a long time ago, so the OP (original poster) is very unlikely to be reading it any more.

I am still a newbie and will have to pay attention to dates. It was such a great soliloquy.
I pray they are sharing marital bliss now and all bad things are cast into the sea of forgetfulness.
tweedlealice

 

[twf]

Granted- but lets be real - if one spouse thinks the other is more experienced they may have some “performance anxiety.” This should be dealt with in their pre-engagement counseling.

This was an issue for me. Prior to our wedding night I had never had intercourse (though I wasn’t 100% pure in other ways by any means), but my wife had (many years earlier and before her baptism). Performance anxiety was a major issue for me for the first couple months in fact, but that is now long in the past. Certainly it is something that I should have addressed more proactively before the wedding night.

 

[SuperLuigi]

I am in a similar situation… I try to leave the past behind but it haunts me as if i am responsible for it…

I think you need to talk to a priest about this. You shouldn’t have to worry about this.

 

[SuperLuigi]

This was an issue for me. Prior to our wedding night I had never had intercourse (though I wasn’t 100% pure in other ways by any means), but my wife had (many years earlier and before her baptism). Performance anxiety was a major issue for me for the first couple months in fact, but that is now long in the past. Certainly it is something that I should have addressed more proactively before the wedding night.

Respectfully, I think this notion that two people need to know all about sex for their wedding night is :whacky:

There’s a learning curve, and it would people well to understand that. Yes, it’s true that the first time on the honeymoon/wedding night may not be the best, but it would hopefully be the first for both partners.

 

[SuperLuigi]

This thread was started a long time ago, so the OP (original poster) is very unlikely to be reading it any more.

True, but there’s a decent discussion emerging.

 

[EasterJoy]

True, but there’s a decent discussion emerging.

Well, generally it is a good idea to cut the thought-provoking bit out of an “ancient” thread like this and start a discussion thread based on that premise, so that no one mistakenly starts putting their heart out to the plight of an original poster who is long gone and a problem that has already been dealt with in some manner or other.

 

[Mulligan2]

I think if a poster were posting about concerns that they found their boyfriend or girlfriend had ruined their credit score, people might understand better than they seem to when a boyfriend or girlfriend has a past that includes sexual impurity.

Some would say “if they haven’t always paid their bills in the past, don’t marry them.” Some would say, “well, do they pay their bills now? Do they realize that it takes a long time to erase a bad credit score?” Some would say, “Did they declare bankruptcy, or did they just run out on their bills?” And so on. There would be a realization that there was both the mark of the misconduct and the question about whether the person is capable of being financially responsible forever after. If someone has a perfect credit score and has never so much as sent in their monthly payment in full a day late, it is understood that they might be leery about someone who is a bit loosey-goosey about bill-paying. There are some, however, who believe that sexual ethics are an entirely different matter in the realm of self-control and trust. Well, it is, but it isnt’.

To respond to your analogy regarding bad credit / bankruptcy, it would be much more of a red flag to me if someone had declared bankruptcy than if they were not a virgin.