Virgin Mary as a Co-redeemer? What?

[b2memphis]

It does not matter what some man writes, all that matters is what we find to have been recorded in the INSPIRED scriptures! We do not have the authority to go any further.

Joh 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

If it makes you feel better about yourself to lean on the words of men, thats your business. But it will not save you! Only obedience to the Lord will save you and you obvoiusly are not interested in obedience! You are more interested in “hocus pocus” than true worship.

Mary does not save anyone! Mary had other childeren so how can she be a perpetual virgin? It is impossible. JUst turn your life over to Christ, throw out all your creed books, catechism’s, etc and go to the Word!

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Heb 4:13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.
Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.
Heb 4:15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

think about it!

 

[b2memphis]

o.k., so where is Mary in all this? Don’t tell me what you think, tell me what the scriptures say.

 

[Booklover]

It does not matter what some man writes, all that matters is what we find to have been recorded in the INSPIRED scriptures! We do not have the authority to go any further.

Joh 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

If it makes you feel better about yourself to lean on the words of men, thats your business. But it will not save you! Only obedience to the Lord will save you and you obvoiusly are not interested in obedience! You are more interested in “hocus pocus” than true worship.

Mary does not save anyone! Mary had other childeren so how can she be a perpetual virgin? It is impossible. JUst turn your life over to Christ, throw out all your creed books, catechism’s, etc and go to the Word!

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Heb 4:13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.
Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.
Heb 4:15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

think about it!

Do you believe that Jesus is God, or just an ordinary human being like the rest of us? You can’t really think very highly of him in spite of all your assertions if you believe that the womb that carried the Son of God would also be allowed to carry the children of men!

Do you also believe that Mary was a sinner just like the rest of us? Do you believe that God would allow his Son to be born of someone who was not worthy to be his mother?

If Mary had other children as you believe, why did Jesus leave her in the care of John when He was dying on the cross?

Are you also one of those Christians who claim that we Catholics are nothing of the sort?

Vickie

 

[dthurmond]

Where do you find any of this in the Bible? Is the vatican council more intelligent than God? If so, where is that in the Bible?

2Ti 2:15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Rev 22:18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book;
Rev 22:19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

You rely on the words and thoughts on ordinary men, I’ll stick with God! You should too!

AMEN!

 

[christcnection1]

It does not matter what some man writes, all that matters is what we find to have been recorded in the INSPIRED scriptures! We do not have the authority to go any further.

Joh 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

If it makes you feel better about yourself to lean on the words of men, thats your business. But it will not save you! Only obedience to the Lord will save you and you obvoiusly are not interested in obedience! You are more interested in “hocus pocus” than true worship.

Mary does not save anyone! Mary had other childeren so how can she be a perpetual virgin? It is impossible. JUst turn your life over to Christ, throw out all your creed books, catechism’s, etc and go to the Word!

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Heb 4:13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account.
Heb 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession.
Heb 4:15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.
Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

think about it!

We agree with every single verse you posted in this entire thread. We just may not agree with your fallible interpretation.

Your posts have become exceedingly laughable and presumptuous. The answers you are looking for are not found exclusively and explicitly in the Bible, but neither is the notion that the Bible alone (with man’s fallible interpretation of it) is the final and sole rule of faith.

Do yourself a favor. Educate yourself on what Catholics truly believe from scripture, sacred tradition, and from a historical basis. God chose to use the Catholic Church to give birth to the Bible. If you cannot prove that Sola Scriptura is true, then your entire argument concerning this matter becomes utterly baseless. Hence, you are in the wrong thread my friend.

Hundreds of Protestant ministers and pastors will continue to leave their churches for the Catholic Church, in part, because this (your) man-made line of reasoning.

www.chnetwork.org

And may the woman in Revelations 12 pray for you.

 

[paarsurrey]

No, paar. Mary is not a God. She co-operated with God.
And when you think of the trinity, we do not talk about three gods but one God in three persons.

Hi
Paul had already established ChristianTrinity consisting of three persons, since this thought of declaring Assumption of Mary to heavens with the physicalmortal body occurred to the later ChristianClergy, so they could not add one more person. This also explains about the inspiration of the ChurchClergyScribes.
I respect your religion, however, this is what I understand from the events.
Thanks
I am an Ahmadi – a peaceful faith in Islam bridging gaps between faiths/denominations/religions/agnostics
The West, as I understand, due to certain disinformation has seen only MullahIslam or MullahShariah; the true face of Muhammad’sIslam and PromisedMessiahImamMahdi’sIslam is yet hidden from their eyes, which is truly speaking only peaceful.

 

[onenow1]

The ark of the covenat was lined with gold within and without so it could contain the word of God which was, ten commands the manna and the branch. Mary’s womb contained the word of God, our savior and redeemer. The new testament revealed in the old !

That’s all folks.

Peace OneNow1

 

[christcnection1]

The ark of the covenat was lined with gold within and without so it could contain the word of God which was, ten commands the manna and the branch. Mary’s womb contained the word of God, our savior and redeemer. The new testament revealed in the old !

That’s all folks.

Peace OneNow1

Yes, and there are countless examples of type kind of thing!

 

[exoflare]

Hi
Paul had already established ChristianTrinity consisting of three persons, since this thought of declaring Assumption of Mary to heavens with the physicalmortal body occurred to the later ChristianClergy, so they could not add one more person. This also explains about the inspiration of the ChurchClergyScribes.

Are you serious? Who do you think you’re fooling??

Try reading some actual Church history rather than just Muslim conspiracy theories. You are proving yourself woefully ignorant of both the teaching of the Trinity and the Assumption. Both were taught a lot earlier than your imams have told you to think.

 

[exoflare]

It does not matter what some man writes, all that matters is what we find to have been recorded in the INSPIRED scriptures! We do not have the authority to go any further.

It seems you’re contradicting yourself again… were the inspired scriptures not themselves written by men?

I also noticed you avoided my previous question. On what authority (in the Bible) do you get the list of which books belong in the Bible?

 

[Claude_Kenneson]

If God so chose to honor Mary by having her as the mother of His Son, why should anyone refuse to honor her?

 

[sosayi1960]

If God so chose to honor Mary by having her as the mother of His Son, why should anyone refuse to honor her?

Honor is one thing, to say she gives grace is another. She is Not a Goddess. I remember watching pictures and statues of Mary. Crowning the May Queen etc. It’s appears pagan. It’s made of wood or whatever. I don’t have a problem saying pray for me, anymore than I do for my parents who died. I cannot call her a mediator. Jesus is the only mediator with with Father.
I’m concerned when people “Worship Mary”. Only God deserves worship. Joseph is holy, Peter is holy, Mary is holy. All are and were human. Part ot the communion of saints. My fear is raising her up to the very throne of God.
May we all pray for peace.

 

[JeannetteCML]

It does not matter what some man writes, all that matters is what we find to have been recorded in the INSPIRED scriptures! We do not have the authority to go any further.

If it makes you feel better about yourself to lean on the words of men, thats your business. But it will not save you! Only obedience to the Lord will save you and you obvoiusly are not interested in obedience! You are more interested in “hocus pocus” than true worship.

Mary does not save anyone! Mary had other childeren so how can she be a perpetual virgin? It is impossible. JUst turn your life over to Christ, throw out all your creed books, catechism’s, etc and go to the Word!

My friend, you are very zealous for the Word of God. And it seems you are concerned that we all be saved. I am with you in that regard then. Perhaps you have purity of heart. I also sympathize with your desire that all should be obedient. Others’ lack of respect for God through disobedience to Him and his Church always makes my blood boil. But then I always have to take a look at my own actions and see how obedient they are.

It doesn’t “make me feel better about myself to lean on the words of men.” I am not about having a high opinion of myself. And, yes, the Scriptures hold a sacred and unique place in our faith, more than any other writing could. But just as much as people speak words of truth in this very forum, the inspiration of the Holy Spirit can be found elsewhere as well. It is the nature of the Spirit to blow where he/she wills. I was just hoping you would see the beauty in what a certain saint in heaven, entirely devoted to God’s Word, had to say about the humility of Mary.

Catholics believe that Mary is a mere creature. And as such, it would not be enough for her to offer her life for our redemption. Jesus, God, is our Redeemer and Savior. But Mary is a very special woman whom God chose to have a unique role in the way the Trinity brings about our salvation. Jesus loved her. I hope you can love her, too. She is the model of obedience in, saying, “Let it be done to me according to your word,” when she heard the greeting of the angel Gabriel about God’s plan for Jesus and for her and for all humanity. Love her for her obedience to the Father if nothing else, for that kind of love is necessary for your salvation. (And yes, forget “hocus pocus”!

Since you brought up the perpetual virginity of Mary I want to quote Scripture for you in a way that might shed light on the matter.

“Standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother and his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary of Magdala. When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple there whom he loved, he said to his mother, “Woman, behold, you son.” Then he said to the disciple, “Behold, your mother.” And from that hour the disciple took her into his home.” John 19:25-27

Now, there are many things that could be said about this beautiful passage, the least of which is the way it points to Mary’s perpetual virginity. (Mary becomes the spiritual Mother of all.) But for your sake, I want to point out that if Jesus had any brothers or sisters, they would be the ones with the responsibility to take her into their home after Jesus died and not this beloved disciple.

There are many things about Mary I wish I could share with you, but seems to me “you cannot bear them now.” But I will put the Magnificat here because it’s something we both can agree on. I hope you will “think about it.”

“My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord; my spirit rejoices in God my savior.
For he has looked upon his handmaid’s lowliness; behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed.
The Mighty One has done great things for me, and holy is his name.
His mercy is from age to age to those that fear him.
He has shown might with his arm, dispersed the arrogant of mind and heart.
He has thrown down the rulers from their thrones but lifted up the lowly.
The hungry he has filled with good things; the rich he has sent away empty.
He has helped Isreal his servant, remembering his mercy, according to his promise to our fathers, to Abraham and to his descendants forever.” Luke 1:46-55

Peace to you. I apologize if you have felt the “odd one out” in this thread. You seem to have enough faith in God to strengthen you. I have had to stand up for what I believe and try to help others in less friendly, unChristian forums who could never understand my intentions. So, I want to say, don’t for what others say, believe yourself corrupt. We are all just imperfect with imperfect understanding, and we all have room for growth. Yet, “Blessed are you when they insult you and persecute you and utter every kind of evil against you (falsely) because of me. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward will be great in heaven.” I believe that goes for all of us, in our progressing comprehension of Christ, God’s Word.

 

[JeannetteCML]

I’m concerned when people “Worship Mary”. Only God deserves worship. Joseph is holy, Peter is holy, Mary is holy. All are and were human. Part ot the communion of saints. My fear is raising her up to the very throne of God.
May we all pray for peace.

Yes, honor Mary, adore and worship God.

 

[exoflare]

Honor is one thing, to say she gives grace is another.

All grace originates with God anyway. Not sure why you bothered to mention this…

She is Not a Goddess.

You don’t say?

I remember watching pictures and statues of Mary. Crowning the May Queen etc. It’s appears pagan.

So do wedding rings, Christmas trees, and several other things I could mention here… they had their origins in paganism. This doesn’t make the objects themselves intrinsically sinful. “It appears pagan” isn’t a valid argument to prove something counter to Christian beliefs.

It’s made of wood or whatever.

Wonderful.

I don’t have a problem saying pray for me, anymore than I do for my parents who died. I cannot call her a mediator. Jesus is the only mediator with with Father.

You’re too quick to generalize things… What was Moses, for example, doing for his people if not “mediating” in some way between them and God? You also say you have no problem with people praying for you, and yet that is also a form of mediation between yourself and God. What makes Jesus unique is that He is the only mediator in terms of the Redemption of the human race.

I’m concerned when people “Worship Mary”. Only God deserves worship. Joseph is holy, Peter is holy, Mary is holy. All are and were human. Part ot the communion of saints. My fear is raising her up to the very throne of God.
May we all pray for peace.

You have yet to show how Mary is being “raised up” to the throne of God…

 

[JeannetteCML]

I am still open to whether or not this is true, but it definitely would not surprise me. Who was the person that claimed to have these visions?

It was Venerable Mother Mary of Jesus of Agreda (1602-1665), a Spanish nun. I don’t know much about her. I’ve just read the abridged version of her book. The book bears the imprimatur of many bishops and is called The Mystical City of God.

 

[exoflare]

It was Venerable Mother Mary of Jesus of Agreda (1602-1665), a Spanish nun. I don’t know much about her. I’ve just read the abridged version of her book. The book bears the imprimatur of many bishops and is called The Mystical City of God.

I’ll look for it… Thanks!

 

[dthurmond]

We agree with every single verse you posted in this entire thread. We just may not agree with your fallible interpretation.

Your posts have become exceedingly laughable and presumptuous. The answers you are looking for are not found exclusively and explicitly in the Bible, but neither is the notion that the Bible alone (with man’s fallible interpretation of it) is the final and sole rule of faith.

What other books are you receiving your information from, other than the Holy Bible?

 

[dthurmond]

We agree with every single verse you posted in this entire thread. We just may not agree with your fallible interpretation.

Your posts have become exceedingly laughable and presumptuous. The answers you are looking for are not found exclusively and explicitly in the Bible, but neither is the notion that the Bible alone (with man’s fallible interpretation of it) is the final and sole rule of faith.

Do yourself a favor. Educate yourself on what Catholics truly believe from scripture, sacred tradition, and from a historical basis. God chose to use the Catholic Church to give birth to the Bible. If you cannot prove that Sola Scriptura is true, then your entire argument concerning this matter becomes utterly baseless. Hence, you are in the wrong thread my friend.

Hundreds of Protestant ministers and pastors will continue to leave their churches for the Catholic Church, in part, because this (your) man-made line of reasoning.

www.chnetwork.org

And may the woman in Revelations 12 pray for you.

What other books are you referring to other than the Holy Bible? What is Sola Scriptura?
Maybe these questions should be given in another thread? I’m not sure.

 

[sosayi1960]

All grace originates with God anyway. Not sure why you bothered to mention this…

You don’t say?

So do wedding rings, Christmas trees, and several other things I could mention here… they had their origins in paganism. This doesn’t make the objects themselves intrinsically sinful. “It appears pagan” isn’t a valid argument to prove something counter to Christian beliefs.

Wonderful.

You’re too quick to generalize things… What was Moses, for example, doing for his people if not “mediating” in some way between them and God? You also say you have no problem with people praying for you, and yet that is also a form of mediation between yourself and God. What makes Jesus unique is that He is the only mediator in terms of the Redemption of the human race.

Thanks for clarifying my ignorance. Mary, holy that she is prays for us to God. So, let me get this straight, we pray with Mary to God. Not to Mary. I have been concerned that some people, including my deceased parents, believed she is something more than human.

My mom use to say part of a pray “anyone who fled to Your protection”. Mary, herself, protect? No! God Protects. Mary cannot be equal to Jesus, but she did play a role as in co-pilot?
I guess the term “Co” means working with and for, is that right?

You have yet to show how Mary is being “raised up” to the throne of God…