Virgin Mary VS Mary daughter of Amram

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since i was kid islam taught us about virgin mary and told his story about her and how she was virgin ,great, and holy woman and the mother of Jesus the messenger of Allah

but when i start to know the christian version of the holy mother mary i start to compare it with the islamic one and that made me wounder are we talking about the same mary

http://www.johnboscochurch.org/images/holyfamily.jpg
1- muslims always say that quran defend mary

quran say mary’s people( the jews) claim that she made Adultery

Then she brought him to her people, carrying him. They said, "O Mary, you have certainly done a thing unprecedented.O sister of Aaron, your father was not a man of evil, nor was your mother unchaste
19:28

my question is there any clue that her people claim she made adultery?

the bible show us that god protected Mary from such claims from the beginning by marrying her to Joseph "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary your wife into your home

but quran Ignore her husband joseph i dont even remember that he was mentioned in quran

we know that no one ever claim that mary made Adultery when she was alive and the quran was the first to create such theory

http://www.domestic-church.com/CONTENT.DCC/19980701.GRAPHICS/assumption.jpg

2- in quran mary said when she was about to born jesus “Oh, I wish I had died before this and was in oblivion, forgotten.”

while in the bible she said ‘behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed’ luke 1:48

so in quran she wish to die and not doing god’s well because she was afraid from her people while in the bible she was happy that she will born the Saviour

3- in quran her father was amram (imran) the father of moses and Aaron and Aaron was her brother!! muslims scholars try to skip this mistake by saying that amram was her great grandfather but the problem is he is from Levi while mary is from the tribe of judah

66: 12 And Mary [Mariam] the daughter of 'Imran [Amram] who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into her (body) of Our spirit

i find this very interesting because moses and Aaron indeed have a sister called Miriam (in arabic mary) but she was not the holy virgin Mariam(mary) !

so is it possible that allah make such mistake or did not get it right !!?

http://www.holyfamilyhhi.org/_images//Holy-Family-nativity.jpg

4- in quran she give birth under palm tree

And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm tree. She said, “Oh, I wish I had died before this and was in oblivion, forgotten.” 19:23

in Christianity jesus was born in cave

those are some differences between the virgin mary and islamic virgin mary
 
I am not familiar with Islam so please forgive me.
But no we are not talking about the same Mary at all. Mary was without sin and concieved Jesus by the Holy Spirit. The angel Gabriel came to her and told her that she was chosen by God to have God’s son.

Depending on the Christian faith we are talking about , Catholics believe that Mary was born without sin, Protestant Christians believe that she was a vessel of God’s divine plan.
In those days if you were not married and with child it was very frowned upon.
I can’t imagine the mother of God’s son saying she would ever want to die. She was about to become the most important mother in the whole world!

As for where Jesus was born , he was born in a stable( barn) laid in a manger and was welcomed into the world by Mary, Joseph and the stable animals. He was not born under a palm tree. They would have been out in public! Plus its not at all historically accurate at all.

The beauty of archeology and historical records is that the author Luke was a medical doctor and was able to research and find the correct information to record in his book about the birth of Jesus. The Holy Bible is the actual historical book of things that actually and really happened in those times.
I currently watched a movie , it was actually about the Holy Bible and the Book of Mormon. You ask what does that have to do with the Quaran? Well it bascially debunked the history of the book of Mormon because no real or true historical findings could be found that this religon claims. But the Holy Bible, there are archeologists that work all of the time and find actual proof from the Bible that these people and places actually existed. You can read in the Bible places that Jesus actually visited and they found actual proof.

I’m curious,( not at all to stir debate of any kind but genuinly curious) has there been actual historic proof been found of what has been written in the quaran like there has been with the Holy Bible?

Here is a good link on the basic summary of the Christmas Story:
christianity.about.com/od/biblestorysummaries/p/christmasstory.htm

A summary of the Gospel of Luke:
christianity.about.com/od/newtestamentbooks/qt/gospellukeintro.htm
 
In the bible, Joseph assumed that Mary had committed adultery and almost ended their engagement. I think that if he knew and was worried about it, others in the town they lived in also knew and had made the same assumption.

Matthew 1:18
18 Now the generation of Christ was in this wise. When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child, of the Holy Ghost. 19 Whereupon Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing publicly to expose her, was minded to put her away privately. 20 But while he thought on these things, behold the Angel of the Lord appeared to him in his sleep, saying: Joseph, son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife, for that which is conceived in her, is of the Holy Ghost. 21 And she shall bring forth a son: and thou shalt call his name Jesus. For he shall save his people from their sins. 22 Now all this was done that it might be fulfilled which the Lord spoke by the prophet, saying: 23 Behold a virgin shall be with child, and bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. 24 And Joseph rising up from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him, and took unto him his wife. 25 And he knew her not till she brought forth her first born son: and he called his name Jesus
Click to expand...
 
TracyR said:
I am not familiar with Islam so please forgive me.
But no we are not talking about the same Mary at all. Mary was without sin and concieved Jesus by the Holy Spirit. The angel Gabriel came to her and told her that she was chosen by God to have God’s son.

Depending on the Christian faith we are talking about , Catholics believe that Mary was born without sin, Protestant Christians believe that she was a vessel of God’s divine plan.
In those days if you were not married and with child it was very frowned upon.
I can’t imagine the mother of God’s son saying she would ever want to die. She was about to become the most important mother in the whole world!

As for where Jesus was born , he was born in a stable( barn) laid in a manger and was welcomed into the world by Mary, Joseph and the stable animals. He was not born under a palm tree. They would have been out in public! Plus its not at all historically accurate at all.

The beauty of archeology and historical records is that the author Luke was a medical doctor and was able to research and find the correct information to record in his book about the birth of Jesus. The Holy Bible is the actual historical book of things that actually and really happened in those times.
I currently watched a movie , it was actually about the Holy Bible and the Book of Mormon. You ask what does that have to do with the Quaran? Well it bascially debunked the history of the book of Mormon because no real or true historical findings could be found that this religon claims. But the Holy Bible, there are archeologists that work all of the time and find actual proof from the Bible that these people and places actually existed. You can read in the Bible places that Jesus actually visited and they found actual proof.

I’m curious,( not at all to stir debate of any kind but genuinly curious) has there been actual historic proof been found of what has been written in the quaran like there has been with the Holy Bible?

Here is a good link on the basic summary of the Christmas Story:
christianity.about.com/od/biblestorysummaries/p/christmasstory.htm

A summary of the Gospel of Luke:
christianity.about.com/od/newtestamentbooks/qt/gospellukeintro.htm
Click to expand...
i believe in islam jesus and his mother were without sin

mohamed said :- No son of Adam shall be born unless that he should be afflicted (touched) by Satan at the hour of birth, when he initiates his life crying out of the Satan’s touch, except Maryam and her son."

Mohammed at one point was bewitched !!!
  • that’s profe that christians at the 7th century were believing that mary and jesus were without sin if we assume that mohammed was learning from them about jesus and mary
yes she did not born jesus under palm tree because it will be in public

i dont think there is any historical prof about what the quran said about mary or jesus

and what really drive me crazy that Muslims say that quran is the only book who defend mary as virgin because the jews told her you made an Adultery But the reality is her people never said that and quran was the first to make this story
 
kmuestwin said:
In the bible, Joseph assumed that Mary had committed adultery and almost ended their engagement. I think that if he knew and was worried about it, others in the town they lived in also knew and had made the same assumption.

Matthew 1:18
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we cannot just go with what you think we need real claim

you are saying that Joseph assumed but he never Claims + at that time she was engage to him and Jesus was not even born yet

look at what quran says

1- she born the child Jesus

2- she was carrying him to her people in her hands

3- her people said to her why you did this your father was not evil man and your mother was not prostitute

if her people claim that she made adultery they will stone her right away plus this is totally against the bible story because when she born Jesus Joseph was her husband to protect her from any claim and to be the father of jesus

so quran was the first to make such a claim and we cannot connect it with what you just said

and i have to ask where is St Joseph in the quran ?!!
 
The Church tells Catholics that we must believe the Gospel account of Mary, Joseph and Jesus, and the Gospel says that their enemies went about spreading lies about them, in order to keep people from believing in the Truth.

Two big lies against Christianity were started very early on :

i) Lies about the Blessed Ever-Virgin Mary (I will not repeat the slander against her, it is filthy trash and of the devil),

And

ii) about Jesus, when they (His enemies), according to the Gospel, said Jesus’ body was taken out of the tomb by His Apostles or others, and therefore that is why His body was not found in His tomb later.

Now prophecy said the Almah (in English, it is translated “maid”) would be the one to give birth to the Son of God, the Saviour of Mankind : God’s Annointed, and the True King of Israel, who are God’s people. An almah (or maid) is a

i) young girl,
ii) under the shielding protection of her father (or her father’s family), is
iii) betrothed and unwed, and
iv) therefore a virgin.

Mary fits the prophet’s description perfectly. She was a young girl betrothed to Joseph but not yet wed owing to the laws of Israel ( she having to ensure that her family’s name would not perish, which thing God commanded would never happen to His faithful.)

Notice that the enmies of Mary and her Son make a point to attack - even very early on - Jesus and His Mother, to distort the Truth about them. Even very early on the enemies of Mary and her Son knew these two special people, and the things God did to and through them, had the power to convert the whole world to the True Faith in Almighty God, Creator of all that is, seen and unseen. So their enemies spread gossip, slander and lies about them, in order to create confusion. It failed to stop the Church from spreading across the whole world, but the lies still cause and create confusion for some even to this day.

Pax (Latin for “Peace”),
Tim
 
I have heard Islam believes in the Immaculate Conception. I don’t read the Quran but respect my friends in Islam. Great question, we rarely see that discussed here to any degree. Theres a contradiction here, No?

Muslim’s reject the doctrine of inherited sin through Eve and Adam, “Original Sin” but teach the Immaculate Conception of Mary. I find this facinating and would love to hear the thinking? Because one is contingent upon the other in Christianity.

My question is: since you reject the doctrine of inherited sin and believe all men are born without sin, why do Muslim’s teach the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception of Mary? As I mention I don’t know or read the Quran, so there may well be a Great reason I’m not aware of?

God Bless, GT
 
Islam is a dangerous deceptive religion, but no more or less so than christianity or judaism
 
algebra said:
Islam is a dangerous deceptive religion, but no more or less so than christianity or judaism
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You sure you are “Agnostic” and not Atheist?

Either way, thanks for that thought provoking contribution.
 
kmuestwin said:
In the bible, Joseph assumed that Mary had committed adultery and almost ended their engagement. I think that if he knew and was worried about it, others in the town they lived in also knew and had made the same assumption.

Matthew 1:18
Click to expand...
Hi kmuestwin,

No, others wouldn’t have assumed that Mary committed adultery, for she would have been stoned to death for such grievous sin.

Joseph knew* he *wasn’t the father, for although engaged to be married, they had not had marital union, thus he thought she had committed adultery. Nevertheless, to protect Mary, he was going to quietly divorce her, until, of course the angel appeared and explained that the child she carried was the Son of God, and that he should marry her and protect the child and mother and care for them.
 
arabic_catholic said:
since i was kid islam taught us about virgin mary and told his story about her and how she was virgin ,great, and holy woman and the mother of Jesus the messenger of Allah

but when i start to know the christian version of the holy mother mary i start to compare it with the islamic one and that made me wounder are we talking about the same mary.

Hello arabic catholic, 👋

And welcome to you! :hug3:

It is wonderful to see you questioning untruths and I believe the Holy Spirit is guiding you and you are listening to His voice by seeking the truth.

If you are truly interested in becoming Catholic, then find a Catholic Church near you and talk to the Priest so you can join RCIA (The Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults). This is a group that consists of other people seeking the teachings of the Lord through the Lord, and they go through a “journey” (or process) to learn and see if they really want to be baptized and/or fully received into full communion with the Lord’s Church. They are taught by certified Catechists (those “teachers” of the faith/Doctrines who have been officially taught and are authorized to teach) and each candidate (one who has been validly baptized) or catechumen (one who has not been validly baptized) gets a Catholic sponsor (a faithfully practicing Catholic volunteer) who will attend these RCIA weekly sessions with the interested person in RCIA.

At the East Vigil, those who went through the process and want to become Catholic will receive the Sacraments and thus become Catholic. 🙂

As you can already see, the Qu’ran is not a book of complete truth, and Mohammed was not a prophet of God. Compare Jesus and His teachings to those of Mohammed, and compare the lifestyles of the two. Who would you say was really of God and sent by God?

Blessings of God,

CEM
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kmuestwin said:
In the bible, Joseph assumed that Mary had committed adultery and almost ended their engagement. I think that if he knew and was worried about it, others in the town they lived in also knew and had made the same assumption.

Matthew 1:18
Click to expand...
You do realize in the last part of the quote that means that him and Mary ended up having sex, so she did not remain a virgin all her life and that means she probably had other kids. Because in those times, they usually had sex to HAVE other kids.

“25 And he knew her not till she brought forth her first born son: and he called his name Jesus”
 
I see. So what did it actually mean? To most people it would be seen as that they had sex, but apparently that is not the case?

Okay I looked it up. It really has to do with interpretations. The catholics interpret it as something different.
 
How do you figure only Catholics read this verse as so? Not Lutherans along with many other Christians?

Matter of fact, wouldn’t it safer to say, the majority of Christians truly believe this? What indicates otherwise from Scripture? Contrary, is this not what scripture indicates? Maybe I’m reading this wrong? :eek:
 
Luther:
*“When Matthew says that Joseph did not know Mary carnally until she had brought forth her son, it does not follow that he knew her subsequently; on the contrary, it means that he never did know her” *

From the Formula of Concord (Lutheran Confessions)
On account of this personal union and communion of the natures, Mary, the most blessed Virgin, bore not a mere man, but, as the angel [Gabriel] testifies, such a man as is truly the Son of the most high God, who showed His divine majesty even in His mother’s womb, inasmuch as He was born of a virgin, with her virginity inviolate. Therefore she is truly the mother of God, and nevertheless remained a virgin.

Jon
 
BlueShadow123 said:
I see. So what did it actually mean? To most people it would be seen as that they had sex, but apparently that is not the case?

Okay I looked it up. It really has to do with interpretations. The catholics interpret it as something different.
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Sorry, there is nothing in that states that Mary and Joseph ever had sex.
That is 100% false. There is no proof that Mary went on to ever have other children either.
 
TracyR said:
Sorry, there is nothing in that states that Mary and Joseph ever had sex.
That is 100% false. There is no proof that Mary went on to ever have other children either.
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But there is no proof that she didn’t.

Therefore you do NOT know. You can assume she didn’t. But that doesnt mean she didn’t. I mean geez, they were married, you would assume they would. 🤷

Either way, why does it matter? She was married, so she wouldn’t be in the wrong to do so.

It really doesn’t matter.
 
BlueShadow123 said:
But there is no proof that she didn’t.

Therefore you do NOT know. You can assume she didn’t. But that doesnt mean she didn’t. I mean geez, they were married, you would assume they would. 🤷

Either way, why does it matter? She was married, so she wouldn’t be in the wrong to do so.

It really doesn’t matter.
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But dear BlueShadow, your statement then begs the question : on what grounds do you know that “it really doesn’t matter” ?

… If perhaps it does not matter to men, does that mean it necessarily doesn’t matter to God, either ? And if it even “might” matter to God, would it not thus then matter to His people ?

Pax,
Tim
 
Yes, but we are talking Jesus Christ and the Holy Family of Joseph and Mary both of whom God sent the Angel Gabriel to visit which is in the Bible, as is Hail Mary, Full of Grace, you have found favor with the Lord, blah, blah blah, . Now who reached that plateau?

Do you think sexual error in judgement comes onto play here? I find that facinating. Especially considering how many men and women live a consecrated life in Christ today, right now. Never mind the Saints and yesterday. Martyred Virgins? I’m amazed, I played contact sports for years and I assure you they have more heart than I do.
 
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