Virgin Mary

[Icaboo]

Why is Marys virginity so important?

 

[VociMike]

Well, since God desired it of Mary, and since he made sure that the fact was included in his revelation to his Church, I think the proper question is, why was it important to God?

 

[Fidelis]

Why is Marys virginity so important?

First of all because it is true. The truth is always important in itself. Once you acknowledge this, then one can discuss the paractical implications that this this particular truth has for the whole deposit of Faith and in our daily lives of life.

 

[Crimson_Seraph]

I think the better arguement would be, why would it have been wrong for Mary and Joseph to have had a normal married life after the Birth of Christ? They were a devout and holy Jewish couple, and part of that is of course, having more children.

 

[VociMike]

I think the better arguement would be, why would it have been wrong for Mary and Joseph to have had a normal married life after the Birth of Christ? They were a devout and holy Jewish couple, and part of that is of course, having more children.

Your premise is wrong. When the virgin woman is conceived of the Holy Spirit, and when the man is told by an angel to take the woman as his wife, and when the woman bears God Incarnate, then the notion of “a normal married life” has already gone out the window. Their marriage was incredibly non-normal up to the birth of Christ (so non-normal that nothing similar happened to anybody else in all of history), so why would anybody assume that after the birth their marriage would suddenly become normal?

Or perhaps I should ask, why are so many people OK with how non-normal the marriage was up to the birth of Christ, but then demand that the marriage suddenly become normal afterwards?

 

[mlchance]

I think the better arguement would be, why would it have been wrong for Mary and Joseph to have had a normal married life after the Birth of Christ?

It wouldn’t have been wrong, so your “better argument” isn’t better at all. It’s flawed from the start.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[MDK]

Your premise is wrong. When the virgin woman is conceived of the Holy Spirit, and when the man is told by an angel to take the woman as his wife, and when the woman bears God Incarnate, then the notion of “a normal married life” has already gone out the window. Their marriage was incredibly non-normal up to the birth of Christ (so non-normal that nothing similar happened to anybody else in all of history), so why would anybody assume that after the birth their marriage would suddenly become normal?

Or perhaps I should ask, why are so many people OK with how non-normal the marriage was up to the birth of Christ, but then demand that the marriage suddenly become normal afterwards?

Because Protestants want to understand God their way, not His way accepting that God is a mystery beyond our complete understanding. They’ll pay lipservice to that, but in practice will not adhere to this.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Why is Marys virginity so important?

Why the Perpetual Virginity of Mary is Important
From catholic.com/thisrock/2005/0512sbs.asp

OBJECTOR: I still don’t see why the Church requires Catholics to believe that Mary remained a virgin instead of allowing them to have their own opinions. Does it really matter if Mary had other children?

CATHOLIC: Actually, it does matter. Every doctrine about Mary tells us something about Christ or something about ourselves or the Church. Mary’s perpetual virginity demonstrates her purity of heart and total love for God. In 388, St. Ambrose of Milan wrote that Mary’s virginity was “so great an example of material virtue” because it demonstrated her total devotion to Jesus. In Mary, we see an example of the purity our own hearts must have in total dedication to God. Her virginity also tells us something about the Church, which, like Mary, is both mother to the faithful and “pure bride to her one husband” (2 Cor. 11:2).

 

[JonNC]

Or perhaps I should ask, why are so many people OK with how non-normal the marriage was up to the birth of Christ, but then demand that the marriage suddenly become normal afterwards?

Seems to me it wasn’t a particularly normal marriage after His birth, either, what with Magi visiting, the necessity to travel to and hide in Egypt to avoid the murderous Herod, etc.
I personally see no reason not to accept her perpetual virginity, as has been held by most of the Church through history, including the early reformers.

MDK

Because Protestants want to understand God their way, not His way accepting that God is a mystery beyond our complete understanding. They’ll pay lipservice to that, but in practice will not adhere to this.

A rather Ad hominem, broad brushed comment, MDK. You are usually more charitable.

Jon

 

[Tom]

Why is Marys virginity so important?

First welcome to the forum.
Second, who should decide which truth is “important”? Shouldn’t God decide? Since He has chosen to disclose this truth, why would someone think it is not important?
So why do you think this truth, which God has revealed, is not important?

 

[Tom]

The fact that Mary and Joseph had planned to remain celibate in their marriage is revealed in Luke chapter 1.
If read in context you’ll see if these two people had planned on a “normal” sexual relationship after their marriage.
We know Mary and Joseph were good pious Jews. We know their marriage was to be in the near future. We know Gabriel is telling Mary what shall occur in the future.
So here you are, as Mary, about to be wed to Joseph. You and Joseph are either planning on a normal sexual relationship or you’re not. When you’re visited by an angel of God. Let’s see which the Holy Spirit leads us to believe.
www.Bible.com:

Luke 1, 26And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth, 27To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name was Mary. 28And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women. 29And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be. 30And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. 31And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. 32He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:33And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Wow, Gabriel certainly tells Mary some awesome information.

1. You shall conceive in your womb.
2. You shall bring forth a son
3. You shall call his name JESUS
4. He shall be great
5. He shall be called the Son of the Highest
6. The Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David
7. He shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever
8. Of his kingdom there shall be no end.

As Mary you’d have a lot of questions. Let’s see what YOU would ask, first think you’re planning a normal sexual relationship in marriage.

1. Any question you shall conceive a child? If you’re planning a normal sexual relation there should be no question.
2. It shall be a son, great news! No question, but great news!
3. Jesus? O.K. I might ask about the name, it wasn’t uncommon name, but to be told by an angel what He would be named is a little unusual.
4. Wow, He shall be great. What do you mean “great”?
5. Son of the Highest? That’s a title reserved for kings!
6. The throne of David? This is to be the messiah we’ve been waiting for? Well, Joseph and I are both of the house of David. Now I have questions!!!
7. He shall reign over the house of Jacob forever? How can my son reign over the house of Jacob forever?
8. His kingdom will have no end? How shall this be?

If I were Mary, I would have asked a great many questions. The only thing I would never have questioned is how I shall become pregnant, Mary knew how children were conceived!

Now read the list again with the knowledge that you planned on celibacy in your marriage!
The first, last and ONLY question I’d have would be “How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?”

So, what question does Mary ask?
www.Bible.com:

Luke 1, 34Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

 

[Tom]

What does this question imply?
www.Bible.com:

Luke 1, 34Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

Was she stupid? Did she not understand where babies came from? No, she say’s she knows not man, so, she understands how babies are conceived.

Was she speaking of her present state of virginity? That would have been ridiculous! Gabriel is telling you, in the future, you’re going to conceive, and you question your present state of virginity? She asks, not with her present state of virginity, but with her future state of virginity. Gabriel is telling her what shall in the future happen, she is answering with her future virginity!

“I know not man” was her position in life, not her current state.
Same as saying “I am a virgin”, today, tomorrow, into my marriage, forever!

 

[Non_sum_dignus]

I think the better arguement would be, why would it have been wrong for Mary and Joseph to have had a normal married life after the Birth of Christ? They were a devout and holy Jewish couple, and part of that is of course, having more children.

If I were Joseph, I think I would have considered Mary the bride of God after being briefed by an angel, who told me what the baby’s name would be and that he was the fulfillment of ancient prophecy.

Can anyone really imagine God, after Jesus was born, saying to Joseph, “Okay, I’m done with her now. She’s all yours.” Can anyone really imagine Joseph even thinking about treating Mary as his wife after God Himself had taken her as his bride?

My question deals with the pathological need in some quarters for Mary not to be virginal and sinless.

 

[NTOT]

Why is there such a need for some to doubt, or even to go so far as to try to discredit, Mary’s virginity?

 

[Tom]

Joseph was well aware of their mutual decision to remain celibate within their marriage. That is one of the reasons the annunciation of the conception of Jesus is recorded in two places in Scripture. Luke addresses the annunciation from the side of Mary, while Matthew address the annunciation from the side of Joseph.
www.bible.com:

Matthew 1: 18 Now this is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about. When his mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, 7 but before they lived together, she was found with child through the holy Spirit.
19 Joseph her husband, since he was a righteous man, 8 yet unwilling to expose her to shame, decided to divorce her quietly.
20 Such was his intention when, behold, the angel of the Lord 9 appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary your wife into your home. For it is through the holy Spirit that this child has been conceived in her.
21 She will bear a son and you are to name him Jesus, 10 because he will save his people from their sins.”
22 All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet:
23 “Behold, the virgin shall be with child and bear a son, and they shall name him Emmanuel,” which means “God is with us.”
24 When Joseph awoke, he did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took his wife into his home.
25 He had no relations with her until she bore a son, 12 and he named him Jesus.

This is the reason they had no sex after they were married but prior to the birth of Jesus. Gabriel never tells him not to. After all she was already pregnant. They were both under a vow of celibacy.
The question then becomes why, after the birth of Jesus did they have to remain celibate? The answer is in the book of Numbers chapter 30, specifically verse 3 - 9. Joseph knew of her vow, was part of it, and allowed it. He could never have her break it under punishment (Numbers 30:14 – 16).
www.bible.com:

Numbers 30: 3 When a man makes a vow to the LORD or binds himself under oath to a pledge of abstinence, he shall not violate his word, but must fulfill exactly the promise he has uttered.
4 "When a woman, while still a maiden in her father’s house, makes a vow to the LORD, or binds herself to a pledge,
5 if her father learns of her vow or the pledge to which she bound herself and says nothing to her about it, then any vow or any pledge she has made remains valid.
6 But if on the day he learns of it her father expresses to her his disapproval, then any vow or any pledge she has made becomes null and void; and the LORD releases her from it, since her father has expressed to her his disapproval.
7 "If she marries while under a vow or under a rash pledge to which she bound herself,
8 and her husband learns of it, yet says nothing to her that day about it, then the vow or pledge she had made remains valid.
9 But if on the day he learns of it her husband expresses to her his disapproval, he thereby annuls the vow she had made or the rash pledge to which she had bound herself, and the LORD releases her from it.

Numbers 30: 14 "Any vow or any pledge that she makes under oath to mortify herself, her husband can either allow to remain valid or render null and void.
15 But if her husband, day after day, says nothing at all to her about them, he thereby allows as valid any vow or any pledge she has made; he has allowed them to remain valid, because on the day he learned of them he said nothing to her about them.
16 If, however, he countermands them some time after he first learned of them, he is responsible for her guilt."

 

[Tom]

So, what do we think? Mary and Joseph, good pious Jews, well versed in the Torah, both visited by the angel of God, Gabriel, both knowing the child in the womb of Mary is the Son of God, both understanding they are under a vow of celibacy, both understanding the ramifications of breaking this vow, just figured, what the heck sex is too important? Ya think?