Virginity and marriage.

[chero23]

You’re telling me sexual history isn’t typical first date small talk???

Maybe if you text with the person, for several days and then go out with them, you can start sensing what type of past they’ve had.

But, most individuals say, not to ask about a person’s sexual past on a 1st date.

 

[chero23]

Or anyone, regardless of sexual past.

I’d rather date a chaste non-virgin than a virgin with a porn (or any) addiction.

That is true, but everyone, especially today, has seen porn, or is aware of sex.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Maybe if you text with the person, for several days and then go out with them, you can start sensing what type of past they’ve had.

But, most individuals say, not to ask about a person’s sexual past on a 1st date.

I was being facetious.

Even as someone who met her husband online, I’m not a fan of texting as a means of getting to know a person, especially not before even going on a date. I think the over reliance on electronic communication hinders building a real connection.

 

[AdamP88]

That is true, but everyone, especially today, has seen porn, or is aware of sex.

Yeah, but there’s a huge difference between having seen porn and regularly seeking it out to the point of addiction.

 

[Rosebud77]

Ok I’ll bite. I did have what the OP wants with regard to virginity prior to my marriage.

And yet I agree with everyone on this thread who is stating that if you’re not willing to look past** a sin** from the past forgiven by God, to see current chastity, then you’re frankly letting the notion of physical virginity cloud your judgement.

Thank you for using the word " sin" rather than “mistake” as others have done

 

[Rosebud77]

That is true, but everyone, especially today, has seen porn, or is aware of sex.

Not true . I have never seen porn and have no wish to and depends on what you mean by “aware of sex”

 

[Rosebud77]

Turn this round?

Ladies; would you want a sexually experienced man or a virgin?

Reading Tess of the D’Urbervilles…

She has a baby out of wedlock; never sure if she assented or her ignorance was taken advantage of… We think the latter Baby, which she baptises, SORROW and which is refused Chrisian burial, dies,

She then meets Angel Clare

"They grow closer throughout Tess’s time at Talbothays, and she eventually accepts his proposal of marriage. Still, she is troubled by pangs of conscience and feels she should tell Angel about her past. She writes him a confessional note and slips it under his door, but it slides under the carpet and Angel never sees it.

After their wedding, Angel and Tess both confess indiscretions: Angel tells Tess about an affair he had with an older woman in London, and Tess tells Angel about her history with Alec. Tess forgives Angel, but Angel cannot forgive Tess. He gives her some money and boards a ship bound for Brazil, where he thinks he might establish a farm. He tells Tess he will try to accept her past but warns her not to try to join him until he comes for her."

This was Victorian England but the OPs words remind me that there is generally seen to be a difference in this between men and women

From this thread still is so?

 

[LethalMouse]

Not true . I have never seen porn and have no wish to and depends on what you mean by “aware of sex”

I do think the reference was to the youngsters of the day.

And I am sure “everyone” meant 90% not that there is literally no one who hasn’t.

 

[DeniseNY]

Would it not mean that the woman had “fallen” not just once, but many times?

Maybe, possibly. I have no idea

 

[AClaire11]

While I met my husband during my time away from the church, it has never bothered me that he wasn’t a virgin.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

Turn this round?

Ladies; would you want a sexually experienced man or a virgin?

I personally would prefer a virgin but I don’t make it a deal-breaker.

I think this kind of discussion often tends to blur the line between physical virginity and chastity. Even the OP, on further clarification, does admit that he would not rule out widows or rape victims, etc but would not want to marry someone who finds premarital sex to be no big deal.

After their wedding, Angel and Tess both confess indiscretions: Angel tells Tess about an affair he had with an older woman in London, and Tess tells Angel about her history with Alec. Tess forgives Angel, but Angel cannot forgive Tess. He gives her some money and boards a ship bound for Brazil, where he thinks he might establish a farm. He tells Tess he will try to accept her past but warns her not to try to join him until he comes for her."

This was Victorian England but the OPs words remind me that there is generally seen to be a difference in this between men and women

From this thread still is so?

I read that book, and I think the author (a man, BTW) made it very apparent that Angel is being a self-righteous hypocrite, and indeed his actions lead to eventual tragedy for Tess. When he finally repents, it is much too late, and he loses her.

Though certainly much of Thomas Hardy’s work seemed to challenge traditional Victorian sexual mores and he faced much opposition and outright censorship. In the originally published version (NOT the original work written by Hardy), due to censors’ demands, the story is changed to make Tess a complete innocent, Alec actually tricks her into sleeping with him by pretending to marry her. Only later was the original version, that leaves her culpability in sexual sin quite vague, published.

But I do think he was far from the only person who questioned sexual double standards in Victorian England.

 

[AClaire11]

I personally would prefer a virgin but I don’t make it a deal-breaker.

I think this kind of discussion often tends to blur the line between physical virginity and chastity. Even the OP, on further clarification, does admit that he would not rule out widows or rape victims, etc but would not want to marry someone who finds premarital sex to be no big deal.

**
I read that book, and I think the author (a man, BTW) made it very apparent that Angel is being a self-righteous hypocrite, and indeed his actions lead to eventual tragedy for Tess. When he finally repents, it is much too late, and he loses her.**

Though certainly much of Thomas Hardy’s work seemed to challenge traditional Victorian sexual mores and he faced much opposition and outright censorship. In the originally published version (NOT the original work written by Hardy), due to censors’ demands, the story is changed to make Tess a complete innocent, Alec actually tricks her into sleeping with him by pretending to marry her. Only later was the original version, that leaves her culpability in sexual sin quite vague, published.

But I do think he was far from the only person who questioned sexual double standards in Victorian England.

Yep, pretty much the main point of the book.

 

[Javan]

Ladies; would you want a sexually experienced man or a virgin?

Considering how many male virgins are also porn addicts, if I were still on the market, I think I would prefer a sexually experienced man with no porn addiction, so long as he had repented and was now living a chaste life.

 

[Rau]

Considering how many male virgins are also porn addicts…

What proportion of male virgins are porn addicts?

 

[Xantippe]

What proportion of male virgins are porn addicts?

Too many.

 

[Javan]

What proportion of male virgins are porn addicts?

I doubt there’s any way to get hard numbers on it, but anecdotally? Every male virgin I know over the age of 18. They are constantly lamenting their inability to find a woman, yet they also admit they can’t be bothered to put forth effort into meeting anyone since they have an infinite amount of porn at their fingertips.

 

[AdamP88]

I doubt there’s any way to get hard numbers on it, but anecdotally? Every male virgin I know over the age of 18. They are constantly lamenting their inability to find a woman, yet they also admit they can’t be bothered to put forth effort into meeting anyone since they have an infinite amount of porn at their fingertips.

As someone already said…after a point there are probably more virgins due to lack of opportunity rather than anything else.

 

[ToeInTheWater]

As someone already said…after a point there are probably more virgins due to lack of opportunity rather than anything else.

While I certainly believe in forgiveness of repented sins…I do think we have to caution ourselves not to make light of sexual sin, either.

Some of the posts here seem to betray an attitude that it is impossible for a man to remain chaste, that if he’s not having actual sex, then he MUST be a porn addict. And so, might as well choose the sexually experienced non-porn addict, who knows how to make love to a real woman, than an awkward virgin who only knows about sex through unrealistic porn images.

Something about that just seems wrong. I realize many, likely most, men, fall short of the ideal when it comes to Catholic sexual ethics, including the OP of this topic. However, the attitude that “all men are unchaste in some way so physical virginity doesn’t matter” seems really cynical, and also unfair to men who DO care about chastity and strive for it.

It seems that if they want to wind up happily married, CAF men reading his who are virgins but struggle with porn, should just start having sex with any woman who’ll have them, maybe even get with hookers or something, since every sexual sin is equally bad, and at least it will help them eventually get married and have a legitimate outlet for sex, since women would rather have a sexually active man who doesn’t use porn than vice versa.

Or, should I just take this topic as proof that sexually chaste men simply don’t exist after a “certain age”, and that women just need to settle for men who “respect their values” on chastity, not actually share them.

ETA: I’d also suspect that most men who care about this issue, would still prefer a virgin woman who masturbates to romance novels to a sexually experienced woman, but maybe that’s just me.

 

[Xantippe]

While I certainly believe in forgiveness of repented sins…I do think we have to caution ourselves not to make light of sexual sin, either.

Some of the posts here seem to betray an attitude that it is impossible for a man to remain chaste, that if he’s not having actual sex, then he MUST be a porn addict. And so, might as well choose the sexually experienced non-porn addict, who knows how to make love to a real woman, than an awkward virgin who only knows about sex through unrealistic porn images.

Something about that just seems wrong. I realize many, likely most, men, fall short of the ideal when it comes to Catholic sexual ethics, but “all men are unchaste in some way so physical virginity doesn’t matter” seems really cynical, and also unfair to men who DO care about chastity and strive for it.

Or, should I just take this topic as proof that such men simply don’t exist after a “certain age”, and that women just need to settle for men who “respect their values” on chastity, not actually share them.

Well, I guess some of us are a little fed up with male virgin porn/masturbation addicts who think that they “deserve” a female virgin, as if that were actually their counterpart.

It’s especially annoying when combined with self-righteousness toward women with pasts involving actual live human people.

Oh, and the “I want a virgin”/“Oh, yeah, I mean that a widow or a victim of rape would be OK” two-step gets old after a while. Think people, think! Not all sex is sin, and not all sexual intercourse is consensual.

There are a lot of victims of sexual abuse or rape walking around, and “I want a virgin” is incredibly hurtful and damaging to people who never had a choice in the matter.

 

[Lea101]

While I certainly believe in forgiveness of repented sins…I do think we have to caution ourselves not to make light of sexual sin, either.

Some of the posts here seem to betray an attitude that it is impossible for a man to remain chaste, that if he’s not having actual sex, then he MUST be a porn addict. And so, might as well choose the sexually experienced non-porn addict, who knows how to make love to a real woman, than an awkward virgin who only knows about sex through unrealistic porn images.

Something about that just seems wrong. I realize many, likely most, men, fall short of the ideal when it comes to Catholic sexual ethics, including the OP of this topic. However, the attitude that “all men are unchaste in some way so physical virginity doesn’t matter” seems really cynical, and also unfair to men who DO care about chastity and strive for it.

It seems that if they want to wind up happily married, CAF men reading his who are virgins but struggle with porn, should just start having sex with any woman who’ll have them, maybe even get with hookers or something, since every sexual sin is equally bad, and at least it will help them eventually get married and have a legitimate outlet for sex, since women would rather have a sexually active man who doesn’t use porn than vice versa.

Or, should I just take this topic as proof that sexually chaste men simply don’t exist after a “certain age”, and that women just need to settle for men who “respect their values” on chastity, not actually share them.

ETA: I’d also suspect that most men who care about this issue, would still prefer a virgin woman who masturbates to romance novels to a sexually experienced woman, but maybe that’s just me.

I think you’re reading into this too much.

People would rather have a sexually experienced man with no porn addiction because who wants someone with a current porn addiction?

Plus key word repented.

A porn addict who trades this habit for another one (sleeping with real women), is still sinning. As opposed to a guy who slept with a few women/one woman or a male virgin who has already beaten his porn addiction, regretted it, and tries his absolute best to be chaste and holy.