Virginity and marriage.

[LethalMouse]

Christians have failed miserably when it came to living up to ideals.

Such things like domestic violence, slavery, racism, and abuse of workers have given rise to movements that while addressing real evils brought about consequences that were not so good.

They say all it takes for evil to flourish is for good people to do nothing. There were a few faithful ones who spoke and acted against the evils listed above but the rest did nothing.

Hmm this thread you making me feel bad alsmways having you lumped in mentally with the other 3.

Maybe you just popped in with a few blurbs in the past and didn’t mean to get on the bandwagon…

Seriously though you sound real reasonable on this thread

 

[Xantippe]

I absolutely did NOT.

What I said was that the real reform would be prosecuting abuse AS assault, not adding a whole new layer of laws to address what I ADMITTED was an injustice.

Yep, that’s what I was talking about.

 

[SilverShadow22]

I suspect there were was probably some context to the police conversation.

Maybe they were telling him, hey you need to leave your girlfriend NOW because this is a toxic situation, and you shouldn’t stick around to see what’s next? Which would be very good advice either way. If he’s the abuser, he should go, and if he’s innocent, he should go, too.

That’s not literally the legal situation–you don’t just accuse somebody of something and BAM they go to jail–it’s a much more involved process than that.

Here’s a woman talking about her experience working in domestic violence with a police department:

xojane.com/issues/domestic-violence-unit-police-department

Done as in life ruined, reputation ruined, charges, possible conviction, done in a whole lot of ways aside from jail. Even 30 days in jail and a record could destroy his ability to get a good job.

If my anecdote doesn’t count, hers doesn’t either. I’m not getting dragged into that game.

I can’t stand it when people use cops as a weapon in family matters. Deal with it or leave. If it’s actual assault press charges like a normal person.

She did this more than once but he still married her. She went berserk while pregnant with his child and blah blah blah. She seems a bit more normal now that she had the baby but I still don’t trust her.

 

[Xantippe]

I just find it a very shaky position to take that it would be possible to completely change law enforcement’s approach to domestic violence without implementing new laws.

It’s hard enough with new laws, but without–forgetaboutit.

Ditto child abuse.

 

[SilverShadow22]

Yep, that’s what I was talking about.

So… A law that says one person attacking another is assault is NOT sufficient to prosecute assault in a domestic situation? Is that what you’re saying?

So we need a whole set of laws that guarantees that women can make any charge they want and get taken more seriously than a man just because they’re female? How is that equality?

 

[LethalMouse]

I suspect there were was probably some context to the police conversation.

Maybe they were telling him, hey you need to leave your girlfriend NOW because this is a toxic situation, and you shouldn’t stick around to see what’s next? Which would be very good advice either way. If he’s the abuser, he should go, and if he’s innocent, he should go, too.
**
That’s not literally the legal situation–you don’t just accuse somebody of something and BAM they go to jail–it’s a much more involved process than that.
**
Here’s a woman talking about her experience working in domestic violence with a police department:

xojane.com/issues/domestic-violence-unit-police-department

That isnt how it plays out.

Remember before it was NOT law that the police should wait it was essentially “unofficial”

Welcome to the reverse. I have an exwife, I have been accused of everything from spouse abuse/ rape/ child abuse/ rape. Up until the time my son could talk to much and he destroyed her.

Each accusation comes with the following

She gets a free woman advocate attorney

I pay an attorney about a thousand dollars

I lose access to my son for the default 6 day window and had to turn in my guns for such time.

Go to court and prove I am innocent

Judge finds me innocent and I lost 6 days I can never get back with my child like when i was supposed to have him for his birthday or when family came to visit during christmas etc…

Then I am out the thousand dollars.
Then the woman does this once every 6 months for 4 years.

OH AND EVEN WHEN YOUR KID CAN TALK AND NOT ONLY PROVES YOU INNOCENT BUTTTT TELLS SHE HITS HIM A BIT TOO HARD THE JUDGE GETS ANNOYED

BUT THERE IS NO NO NO Nothing in place for false protective orders so that no “victim” is scared to file… lol.

 

[LethalMouse]

Oh and that doesnt even cover the situations where a woman is assualting a man and he defends himself even if he is super careful not to hurt her.

He is 8/10 or better done for. Finished, screwed.

 

[SilverShadow22]

that isnt how it plays out.

Remember before it was not law that the police should wait it was essentially “unofficial”

welcome to the reverse. I have an exwife, i have been accused of everything from spouse abuse/ rape/ child abuse/ rape. Up until the time my son could talk to much and he destroyed her.

Each accusation comes with the following

she gets a free woman advocate attorney

i pay an attorney about a thousand dollars

i lose access to my son for the default 6 day window and had to turn in my guns for such time.

Go to court and prove i am innocent

judge finds me innocent and i lost 6 days i can never get back with my child like when i was supposed to have him for his birthday or when family came to visit during christmas etc…

Then i am out the thousand dollars.
Then the woman does this once every 6 months for 4 years.

Oh and even when your kid can talk and not only proves you innocent butttt tells she hits him a bit too hard the judge gets annoyed

but there is no no no nothing in place for false protective orders so that no “victim” is scared to file… Lol.

Case in point!

Thank you, Lethal

 

[LethalMouse]

Case in point!

Thank you, lethal

No probs
.
…

Glad my life sucks enough to give good examples of disorder lol

 

[BlueEyedLady]

I can’t stand it when people use cops as a weapon in family matters. Deal with it or leave. If it’s actual assault press charges like a normal person.

He never has, and I can’t imagine he ever would, but if my 6’6 husband decided to hurt me (5’2, 118 lbs) how should I deal with it if not by calling the police? How would I even press charges without calling the police? How should my neighbors handle it if they overhear him beating me? What if heaven forbid, I had children in this situation?

BTW - If they’re still together, I can’t imagine your cousin was totally innocent. Crazy attracts crazy. A normal, innocent man would leave rather than subject himself to false police reports and possibly charges.

 

[Xantippe]

**So… A law that says one person attacking another is assault is NOT sufficient to prosecute assault in a domestic situation? Is that what you’re saying? **

So we need a whole set of laws that guarantees that women can make any charge they want and get taken more seriously than a man just because they’re female? How is that equality?

Yeah. If anybody can point me to an example of a country that does a super job prosecuting domestic violence without having specific domestic violence laws, I’m all ears.

The problem is that anything “domestic” (for example child abuse) tends to get bracketed as being not the same sort of thing as say, an adult hitting another adult just as hard in a public setting, so it does need to be treated explicitly as a separate phenomenon, rather than just thrown in with assault.

For many years it was A-OK to hit your own children in a way that would get you sent to jail if you did it to another unrelated adult. I think people are developing a conscience about this, but it helps a lot to have CPS as the angel on their shoulder to keep them from hitting their kids as hard as they would otherwise. (My mom used to break wooden spoons and spatulas on us kids when we were tweens and teens and backhanded my sister and me each at least once–I think it would have done my mom a lot of good to have to talk to the nice CPS lady–it would have put the fear of God into her and maybe she might have learned some actual teen parenting techniques.)

 

[LethalMouse]

He never has, and I can’t imagine he ever would, but if my 6’6 husband decided to hurt me (5’2, 118 lbs) how should I deal with it if not by calling the police? How would I even press charges without calling the police? How should my neighbors handle it if they overhear him beating me? What if heaven forbid, I had children in this situation?

BTW - If they’re still together, I can’t imagine your cousin was totally innocent. Crazy attracts crazy. A normal, innocent man would leave rather than subject himself to false police reports and possibly charges.

No not really, you think that the disordsred girl needs help… there are no damsels in distress so the sad disturbed ones look the most similar lol.

 

[Xantippe]

He never has, and I can’t imagine he ever would, but if my 6’6 husband decided to hurt me (5’2, 118 lbs) how should I deal with it if not by calling the police? How would I even press charges without calling the police? How should my neighbors handle it if they overhear him beating me? What if heaven forbid, I had children in this situation?
**
BTW - If they’re still together, I can’t imagine your cousin was totally innocent. Crazy attracts crazy. A normal, innocent man would leave rather than subject himself to false police reports and possibly charges.**

There is that.

If I had a male relative in that situation, I would tell him to RUN.

 

[SilverShadow22]

He never has, and I can’t imagine he ever would, but if my 6’6 husband decided to hurt me (5’2, 118 lbs) how should I deal with it if not by calling the police? How would I even press charges without calling the police? How should my neighbors handle it if they overhear him beating me? What if heaven forbid, I had children in this situation?

BTW - If they’re still together, I can’t imagine your cousin was totally innocent. Crazy attracts crazy. A normal, innocent man would leave rather than subject himself to false police reports and possibly charges.

This is not what I’m talking about.

I’m talking about an argument and you decide to call the cops and say he hit you or threatened to or you felt unsafe and you did this to ‘win’ or control, threaten, or manipulate him, to force him to do your bidding, or convince him not to leave you.

I just said if it’s assault then by all means call the cops and press charges. Calling the cops for less than chargeable offenses (in a domestic situation) isn’t really helping anything, now is it?

In fact if he were the sort of person to hurt you then calling the cops before he did something to merit being taken away immediately… You just got put in even more danger, didn’t you? Or does an abuser LIKE visits from the cops?

 

[Xantippe]

This is not what I’m talking about.

I’m talking about an argument and you decide to call the cops and say he hit you or threatened to or you felt unsafe and you did this to ‘win’ or control, threaten, or manipulate him, to force him to do your bidding, or convince him not to leave you.

I just said if it’s assault then by all means call the cops and press charges. Calling the cops for less than chargeable offenses (in a domestic situation) isn’t really helping anything, now is it?

In fact if he were the sort of person to hurt you then calling the cops before he did something to merit being taken away immediately… You just got put in even more danger, didn’t you? Or does an abuser LIKE visits from the cops?

One of our posters got a visit from the police for a domestic (I forget what the precipitating event was), the police told her to leave immediately, she left with her daughters, and then her husband shot himself.

So yeah, as horrible as that was, it could have been much worse–it could have been one of those deals where the guy shoots his entire family and then himself.

 

[SilverShadow22]

Yeah. If anybody can point me to an example of a country that does a super job prosecuting domestic violence without having specific domestic violence laws, I’m all ears.

The problem is that anything “domestic” (for example child abuse) tends to get bracketed as being not the same sort of thing as say, an adult hitting another adult just as hard in a public setting, so it does need to be treated explicitly as a separate phenomenon, rather than just thrown in with assault.

For many years it was A-OK to hit your own children in a way that would get you sent to jail if you did it to another unrelated adult. I think people are developing a conscience about this, but it helps a lot to have CPS as the angel on their shoulder to keep them from hitting their kids as hard as they would otherwise. (My mom used to break wooden spoons and spatulas on us kids when we were tweens and teens and backhanded my sister and me each at least once–I think it would have done my mom a lot of good to have to talk to the nice CPS lady–it would have put the fear of God into her and maybe she might have learned some actual teen parenting techniques.)

If this is indeed the case and not simply the views of the present applied to the past, I may reconsider my impressions of the situation.

But I am probably way more lenient about corporal punishment and as I commented on a thread on that subject, received quite a bit of it myself. And it wasn’t the physical that hurt, not nearly so much as the emotional that went with it. A scorching scolding hurt me worse than any paddling could.

 

[LethalMouse]

Yeah. If anybody can point me to an example of a country that does a super job prosecuting domestic violence without having specific domestic violence laws, I’m all ears.

The problem is that anything “domestic” (for example child abuse) tends to get bracketed as being not the same sort of thing as say, an adult hitting another adult just as hard in a public setting, so it does need to be treated explicitly as a separate phenomenon, rather than just thrown in with assault.
**
For many years it was A-OK to hit your own children in a way that would get you sent to jail if you did it to another unrelated adult**. I think people are developing a conscience about this, but it helps a lot to have CPS as the angel on their shoulder to keep them from hitting their kids as hard as they would otherwise. (My mom used to break wooden spoons and spatulas on us kids when we were tweens and teens and backhanded my sister and me each at least once–I think it would have done my mom a lot of good to have to talk to the nice CPS lady–it would have put the fear of God into her and maybe she might have learned some actual teen parenting techniques.)

There was wrong undoubtably at times in pkaces and I am not going all super historian lawyer because the devil is in the details not the truth.

But this trick statement ignores that while this statement is true it still is.

In fact everything you do from picking your kid up to take them kicking and screaming somewhere they dont want to go to a very non abusive spanking is 100% illegal to do to soem random adult at the mall.

 

[LethalMouse]

Yeah. If anybody can point me to an example of a country that does a super job prosecuting domestic violence without having specific domestic violence laws, I’m all ears.

The problem is that anything “domestic” (for example child abuse) tends to get bracketed as being not the same sort of thing as say, an adult hitting another adult just as hard in a public setting, so it does need to be treated explicitly as a separate phenomenon, rather than just thrown in with assault.

For many years it was A-OK to hit your own children in a way that would get you sent to jail if you did it to another unrelated adult. I think people are developing a conscience about this, but it helps a lot to have CPS as the angel on their shoulder to keep them from hitting their kids as hard as they would otherwise. (My mom used to break wooden spoons and spatulas on us kids when we were tweens and teens and backhanded my sister and me each at least once–I think it would have done my mom a lot of good to have to talk to the nice CPS lady–it would have put the fear of God into her and maybe she might have learned some actual teen parenting techniques.)

Wow really? I just read your “abusive childhood” momma wooden spoon and a backhand? How about not be horrible. Parents NOW have the fear of God instead of kids… and kids no longer behave whatsoever lol.

And to be frank I am reminded of a guy i knew. He dared to threaten to call cps on his parents. They handed him the phone.

CPS took him. And his parents said fine go bye.

Kid came crawling back.

You are in essence advocating the state over the family. Some of us prefer the family.

I wish my dad would have hit me. He threatend to send me off to go be a state kid. Far more torturous that a hit. Never thought of it that way before directly… huh… but yeah I even yelled at him once when he said about

I remeber my friends mom hitting me, had no affect but respect.

Lol nothing of the sorts sticks with me as abuse.

But also I said before you mentioned your bad time with hubby and you sounded very bad… so I imagine a bad kid gets the spoon a bit more often?? Hmmm

 

[Rau]

Hypothetical: I reconsider my views on having a child right now, and I decide it’s time to go off birth control. But let’s say hubby disagrees and wants to stick with the original plan (stopping birth control in 1-2 years). What do I do? Do I go against his wishes and try to unilaterally decide we’re going to be parents, or do I submit to his decision?

If you changed your view of the rightness of the pill, and wanted to cease taking it, you’d be entirely free to do so. Hubby then has several options, eg. No Sex, Periodic continence, condom, accept that sex may produce a baby. Of course, you’d have a say in all that too.

The dichotomy you presented was false.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

If you changed your view of the rightness of the pill, and wanted to cease taking it, you’d be entirely free to do so. Hubby then has several options, eg. No Sex, Periodic continence, condom, accept that sex may produce a baby. Of course, you’d have a say in all that too.

The dichotomy you presented was false.

Barring a sincere religious conversion, that would be a very churlish thing to do. I’m not convinced that wouldn’t be awful to do that even if I did convert.

I don’t make huge decisions like that and then expect him to just find a way to live with it.