Virtue while "parenting"

[Evania]

Hi everyone, I’m a 15 year old girl who takes care of 4 of her siblings at home since both parents are often at work. We homeschool.
Now here’s my question: how do I practice virtues and grow in my faith while at the same time, discipline the kids (who are 3, 6, 8, and 10, and the 3 year old and the 6 year old fight with each other almost constantly ) and still teach them about the faith?? I have been struggling with this for a little while now.

God bless!

Here was the original post for reference. She states that she has been struggling with this for awhile. Reading some of the advice this kid is being given is almost like hearing moms counsel another mom. Hello! She is not the mom. She is a kid! It is not natural for a 15 year old kid to be the mother of 5 children, let alone be responsible for their education. It would be fine if she babysat, tutored, or did farm chores. If a child has to raise their siblings in order to be the “most responsible”, then shouldn’t all of us parents do what her parents are doing and work outside the home, open a business, and leave our oldest at home to struggle?

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

The Amish here do not have an Amish school, so they are all homeschooled. The Mennonites here also homeschool. The Amish next county over do have a school, and yes they attend until 8th grade. Here the Amish children are often taught by siblings, and they are probably the most responsible and well rounded people I know. many farm families, for generations, have lived just like this. My aunt taught her siblings between chores, and her mother and uncles went over her lesssons at night after dinner. They grew up on a dairy farm so plenty of chores needed to be done. It was the Great Depression so my grandfather often was away working and my grandmother worked as a secretary as well. The girls ran the farm with my great uncles ( my grammas brothers) and schooled each other. Eventually grampa got a full-time position as a delivery man and things settled down for them. The aunt that was in charge of lessons went on to graduate top of her class at University of Vermont and then graduate from Boston College of Medicine. She is a pediatric cardiologist (retired), the next one down was a registered nurse, then my mom was a medical researcher. The sister between my mom and the next oldest died in childhood as so many did during that time. Rheumatic fever–the reason her sisters all made medicine their career. It can be done, and done well. I am not saying this is ideal, but I also don’t believe it constitutes abuse or educational neglect either. I homeschool my kids and I do use textbooks, we do yearly testing, follow lesson plans. But I know many other homeschooling families that do “unschooling.” they don’t have textbooks, they don’t test their kids, it’s all hands-on and active. They have no schedule or routine, no lesson plans, but still their kids turn out fine. A farm is a terrific classroom, that’s why schools take field trips to them. I see no indication that these kids are uncared for. If they were I’m pretty sure the daughter would be resentful instead of helpful. Kids her age teach younger siblings all the time, even kids that are in school full-time.

We have become such a litigious society that the first thing that comes to people’s minds is the idea that disagreement = legal action. So I just want to make it clear before going any further that it’s her parent’s right to raise her this way if they so choose, and it’s not for me to say, legally.

Morally/ethically/whatever, though, from a Catholic perspective, shouldn’t there be a distinction between parent and sibling? It sounds very much like this family is blurring the line, as they are (seemingly, based on what we know) making the 15 year old the primary caretaker of their 4 children. The role of an older sibling can definitely overlap with the role of a parent, but should it take over that role altogether when the parents are still around?

Furthermore, as I understand it, the Amish are called to live in isolation from the outside world. While, as I understand it, they do have an opportunity to reject their Amish heritage and interact with the outside society, it is rarely done. Catholic culture is, as you know, quite different. A Catholic is expected to interact with the outside world. While there are exceptions, they are few and far between.

So in that sense, I do not think it is very prudent to have a teen abandon her education. If you read this young lady’s blog, she sounds well educated with regards to the English language and our faith at least. But, she should definitely continue her education!

 

[3DOCTORS]

I agree that the OP should be able to get her own education. But bear in mind that this family is trying to think outside the box and that it does sound like they are doing a lot of things that are good, things that have fallen by the wayside in mainstream culture. Such as being close knit, independent, living their faith, homeschooling. There may be a larger pattern of balance that we just can’t see; for the hardships there may be compensations. And it doesn’t sound as if anyone is being abused. It’s just an unconventional situation so if we try to apply the rules we’re used to it might come off as bad when really it’s not.

Negotiation is key; if the OP is being entrusted with this much responsibility, she also has some bargaining power with her parents if she can use it with respect and charity. If they appreciate how hard she is working, and how without her they would not be able to put so much into their goals for a family business (which it sounds like they hope will benefit everyone ultimately), they would surely be approachable with suggestions to rearrange some schedules so she gets a break and has enough time to study and also have some down time and fun.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

I agree that the OP should be able to get her own education. But bear in mind that this family is trying to think outside the box and that it does sound like they are doing a lot of things that are good, things that have fallen by the wayside in mainstream culture. Such as being close knit, independent, living their faith, homeschooling.

I’m not disputing the idea that there may be positives here. If you read her blog, she sounds like she’s been raised quite well up until this point, and it doesn’t sound like she’s been abused at all.

But you say they are homeschooling, as if homeschooling is inherently a good thing. I believe it’s good when it’s good and it’s bad when it’s bad. If homeschooling consists of letting your 15 year old daughter parent 4 younger children, then I say that is **bad **homeschooling.

Negotiation is key; if the OP is being entrusted with this much responsibility, she also has some bargaining power with her parents if she can use it with respect and charity. If they appreciate how hard she is working, and how without her they would not be able to put so much into their goals for a family business (which it sounds like they hope will benefit everyone ultimately), they would surely be approachable with suggestions to rearrange some schedules so she gets a break and has enough time to study and also have some down time and fun.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not against asking children to pitch in. But, come on, there’s got to be a limit here. It sounds like they are essentially abrogating their roles as parents to her. No child should have the responsibility of being the primary teacher of 4 younger siblings in both the faith and other studies, while at the same time helping on the farm, helping around the house and educating herself. That’s crossing the line, IMHO.

Again, she is an amazing kid insofar as she has been able to keep it together thusfar. Most kids these days probably wouldn’t be able to handle half of what she does. But these parents have to step up and perform most of their duties as parents. It’s not fair to her at all.

 

[Evania]

I’m not disputing the idea that there may be positives here. If you read her blog, she sounds like she’s been raised quite well up until this point, and it doesn’t sound like she’s been abused at all.

But you say they are homeschooling, as if homeschooling is inherently a good thing. I believe it’s good when it’s good and it’s bad when it’s bad. If homeschooling consists of letting your 15 year old daughter parent 4 younger children, then I say that is **bad **homeschooling.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not against asking children to pitch in. But, come on, there’s got to be a limit here. It sounds like they are essentially abrogating their roles as parents to her. No child should have the responsibility of being the primary teacher of 4 younger siblings in both the faith and other studies, while at the same time helping on the farm, helping around the house and educating herself. That’s crossing the line, IMHO.

Again, she is an amazing kid insofar as she has been able to keep it together thusfar. Most kids these days probably wouldn’t be able to handle half of what she does. But these parents have to step up and perform most of their duties as parents. It’s not fair to her at all.

Well said.

 

[Xantippe]

With all this talk of the Amish, I think some of us are losing track of how many different work obligations these parents both have. They would be very, very busy people even if they had no kids at all, and it’s about to get busier if they are the ones who will be running the B and B. I’ve lived this situation in my own family of origin, and yes, it is possible for parents who have an exciting new business venture to forget a child or two (or three or four). If I were the friend of the parents, I would urge them to shelve at least one of these work projects. I don’t know if any of you have worked long-term in a tourist business, but it’s very different from the 9-5 world. When I was a teenager doing it, we’d try to open the door at 8 AM and keep going as long as there was traffic on the road, which might be until well after 9 PM at night, and to do that every single day of the week, for the entire tourist season (and yes, a lot of church got skipped by my formerly regularly churchgoing Protestant family). Where does dinner, household chores and family interaction come into this? It was very easy for all dinner conversation to be 100% store talk. As I said upthread, my youngest sibling was rather neglected during those years. He turned out OK, but his life could have been much better. He needed much closer supervision and much more support. (I personally loved the experience, but we all forgot about my little brother.) And you cannot overestimate how much more taxing running a B and B is. I would hesitate to recommend that particular business to any family with children, because it’s potentially a 24/7 job. (I’m really hoping they’re not actually going to run the B and B, but just building it for somebody else.)

I’ve been there living in a family with a farm and lots of other gigs going and then a whole new demanding business starting. In the excitement of starting an exciting new business, parents can forget about kids, especially when both parents are working in the business and are in the first phase of infatuation with it. It’s really hard to find balance. If I were the friends of the OP’s parents, I would urge them to cut back on one or two or even three of the things they do.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Here was the original post for reference. She states that she has been struggling with this for awhile. Reading some of the advice this kid is being given is almost like hearing moms counsel another mom. Hello! She is not the mom. She is a kid! It is not natural for a 15 year old kid to be the mother of 5 children, let alone be responsible for their education. It would be fine if she babysat, tutored, or did farm chores. If a child has to raise their siblings in order to be the “most responsible”, then shouldn’t all of us parents do what her parents are doing and work outside the home, open a business, and leave our oldest at home to struggle?

This. She’s NOT THE MOM, and having a 15 year old girl title her OP "Virtue while ‘parenting,’ " tells quite a lot of the story here. She’s struggling and her OP says she is, and these are struggles she’s not equipped for. She didn’t bear these children, and she doesn’t have a husband to help her, because she’s THE SISTER NOT THE MOTHER!

The parents have dumped the care of their children onto the older daughter, because she’s capable, but she’s not equipped and this is not her role.

 

[gardenswithkids]

Firstly, we live on a farm that has over 1,000 animals, that require food, water, etc.

Mom works part-time as a Public Health Nurse (Mon. & Tues.), but on Wednesdays, she sometimes teaches CPR. Thursdays are piano lessons, Fridays we will sometimes go to Mass/Adoration, and Saturdays/Sundays are for catching up on everything else.
Dad is building a B&B that will be opening in June, and since he is doing most of the work himself, he is gone at 6 AM and home by 5 PM. Long days

Hi CruceSignati-
I can see why routine is difficult in your family due to your mother’s** part time** work schedule.

It is wonderful that you help your parents, but I don’t think it is helpful to think that you are “parenting”. You are watching your brothers and sisters two days a week while your mother cares for the sick to help provide for your family. If she worked on every weekend and you attended school M-F and then babysat on Sat and Sun, it wouldn’t raise all the eyebrows that you raised here that place your parents in the position of being accused of educational and parental neglect.

As others have pointed out, you are the sister, not the parent. Have your own parents ever pointed that out to you? I am a homeschooling mother of a large family–and it’s something I sometimes have to remind my older children of that as well–sometime even when I’m in the very same room! Your parents need your help and they need you to babysit sometimes and to set a good example, but they don’t need you to be another parent for their children. As to being the teacher, I suggest you think of yourself as the teacher’s aide rather than the teacher. You are not the teacher either.

As to your original question, we learn the virtues best by practicing them.

 

[7armyrugrats]

Hi CruceSignati-
I can see why routine is difficult in your family due to your mother’s** part time** work schedule.

It is wonderful that you help your parents, but I don’t think it is helpful to think that you are “parenting”. You are watching your brothers and sisters two days a week while your mother cares for the sick to help provide for your family. If she worked on every weekend and you attended school M-F and then babysat on Sat and Sun, it wouldn’t raise all the eyebrows that you raised here that place your parents in the position of being accused of educational and parental neglect.

As others have pointed out, you are the sister, not the parent. Have your own parents ever pointed that out to you? I am a homeschooling mother of a large family–and it’s something I sometimes have to remind my older children of that as well–sometime even when I’m in the very same room! Your parents need your help and they need you to babysit sometimes and to set a good example, but they don’t need you to be another parent for their children. As to being the teacher, I suggest you think of yourself as the teacher’s aide rather than the teacher. You are not the teacher either.

As to your original question, we learn the virtues best by practicing them.

Yep, and 6 AM to 5 PM for dad being gone really isn’t much longer than most dads, and far less than my kids’ dad is gone each day! When he’s not deployed, his average work day is 4 AM leaving the house, returning home around 8 PM. Plenty more time is spent with mom than most kids get it seems to me. If mom worked full time and kids were in public school, sister would still be babysitting just as many hours each week before and after school as she does now in current situation.

 

[Bonnie]

If the mother is indeed home 4 days a week and the father every evening, the girl should not have to be organizing the household, including the teaching. Either she exaggerated her responsibilities or the parents are dropping the ball.

 

[EasterJoy]

Oh, the horror of children having responsibilty.

These will probably be the most productive, responsible adults in the whole area when they grow up.

I have a friend whose father put responsibilities onto him at the age of 14 and 15, responsibilities that he was not ready for, and it did not help him become more responsible. It helped him become terrified of screwing up. He actually had to unlearn the internal dialogue that being put into that position taught him in order to become an effective leader.

This often happens to the adult children of alcoholics. They had to become “wonderfully” responsible when they were young, but like making a colt into a plow horse, putting responsibility onto a child who is too young for it can do a lot of harm. They develop an unsustainable view of what their responsibilities are in this world, and it can end very badly. It often does.

This is not to say that families may not need teens to “step up to the plate”. It is to say, however, that this teen ought to feel she has the support and coaching of her parents when it comes to the help she gives to her family. She should not feel like a parent. It would be good for her to go to her mom and say, “Mom, when I take care of the younger ones, I feel like I’m trying to be their parent, and I’m too young to be a parent. I know you need my help, but can you help me out? Am I trying to do things that aren’t my job? How should I handle this? It really has me stressed out.” Let’s say this: There aren’t a lot of mothers of 15 year old girls who are going to tell them, “You’re ready to be a mother”!

I would encourage the girl to keep on asking for the help she needs for as long as she feels the way she does. Working hard is one thing; taking on a role that is simply too much for your shoulders is another. If her parents ignore her or minimize her requests for help, consulting with a godparent, a grandparent, or her pastor is something she ought to try. She should not resign herself to being overwhelmed, as if it were her lot in life.

 

[Xantippe]

“If the mother is indeed home 4 days a week and the father every evening, the girl should not have to be organizing the household, including the teaching. Either she exaggerated her responsibilities or the parents are dropping the ball.”

There’s the farm (hundreds and hundreds of critters), the dad’s construction project, the mom’s nursing job, and the mom’s CPR teaching. If they are going to also be running a B and B (and I sincerely hope they aren’t going to), it’s only going to get worse.

When you’ve got so much going on, it’s easy for the children and their welfare to get back-burnered. That’s OK for a short period of time, but it can’t be a permanent way of life.

“This is not to say that families may not need teens to “step up to the plate”. It is to say, however, that this teen ought to feel she has the support and coaching of her parents when it comes to the help she gives to her family. She should not feel like a parent. It would be good for her to go to her mom and say, “Mom, when I take care of the younger ones, I feel like I’m trying to be their parent, and I’m too young to be a parent. I know you need my help, but can you help me out? Am I trying to do things that aren’t my job? How should I handle this? It really has me stressed out.” Let’s say this: There aren’t a lot of mothers of 15 year old girls who are going to tell them, “You’re ready to be a mother”!”

Amen to that. It’s one thing to be apprenticed to your parents in domestic arts, but if they’re routinely not home for an entire working day, it’s not an apprenticeship.

Remember–the youngest two kids are fighting continuously in their parents’ absence. If this situation were working out ideally, the OP wouldn’t have written in.

Also, what happens when the OP goes off to college in 2 or 3 years? Will the next sibling (who will be around 13 then) be able to step into her shoes? Also, will the OP be able to go to college? Is she being academically prepared to be able to go to college if that’s what she wants? I expect she’s quite the reader (homeschooled children generally are), but what about her math and science education?