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Br.Rich_SFO
Guest
Have you got any feedback on the monthly Websites. After about15 or 20 I simply stopped doing them. They in my opinion drifted away from their primary purpose.
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PaixGioiaAmor
Guest
Yeah. And everyone knows that. No need for a 4 hour class on it.Those people who actually care do not break the rules repeatedly re being alone with a child/young adult.
The major warning sign is wanting to be ALONE - be their SPECIAL friend etc - do things with them their parents won’t do etc.
And if I EVER had a reason to believe that ANYONE had harmed a child, I would seek out the proper authorities and inform them of my suspicion as well as any evidence I might have. I don’t need VIRTUS handing out a list of law enforcement agencies (as though anyone doesn’t know how to contact the local police) and social service agencies.
The program is a waste of time and resources.
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Eilish_Maura
Guest
Yeah - the program is so unnecessary and this information is so well known that we STILL have problems with young people becoming victims of predators and folks still stand back and say ‘I can’t believe he/she could do such a thing’.Yeah. And everyone knows that. No need for a 4 hour class on it.
And if I EVER had a reason to believe that ANYONE had harmed a child, I would seek out the proper authorities and inform them of my suspicion as well as any evidence I might have. I don’t need VIRTUS handing out a list of law enforcement agencies (as though anyone doesn’t know how to contact the local police) and social service agencies.
The program is a waste of time and resources.
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PaixGioiaAmor
Guest
VIRTUS is unncessary.
Long ago, our diocese had a policy in place. It was one page long. It basically said that no one may violate the law or ethics and harm a child. It then had provisions for the reporting of such acts and what action would be taken. It was short, sweet - and covered the bases.
Why did the problems occur? Because we violated our own policy. Abuse cases were not handled in accordance with the existing policy. If that policy would have been followed, there would have been no “crisis” in the Church, at least not locally.
Since it wasn’t followed, problems happened. What then followed was the biggest over-reaction and creation of beaurocracy ever known to man. New, 90 page policies were created. VIRTUS came to be. And it’s all a waste of time (not to even mention money). None of it protects children anymore than the old policy did.
I say go back to the former policy. Only this time, let’s actually follow it.
Long ago, our diocese had a policy in place. It was one page long. It basically said that no one may violate the law or ethics and harm a child. It then had provisions for the reporting of such acts and what action would be taken. It was short, sweet - and covered the bases.
Why did the problems occur? Because we violated our own policy. Abuse cases were not handled in accordance with the existing policy. If that policy would have been followed, there would have been no “crisis” in the Church, at least not locally.
Since it wasn’t followed, problems happened. What then followed was the biggest over-reaction and creation of beaurocracy ever known to man. New, 90 page policies were created. VIRTUS came to be. And it’s all a waste of time (not to even mention money). None of it protects children anymore than the old policy did.
I say go back to the former policy. Only this time, let’s actually follow it.
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pnewton
Guest
Regardless of the PR, I do not believe for one second that VIRTUS programs are for the protection of the children. That does not mean it is worthless. VIRTUS is for the protection of assets first and foremost. If protecting children was the only goal, this could be accomplished far more cheaply and efficiently by standardized rules being in place, as mentioned above. The time and money invested in these mundane classes could be better spent on structural changes to make the Church safer.
I agree that simple enforcement of common sense rules do far more good than training developed by lawyers.
I agree that simple enforcement of common sense rules do far more good than training developed by lawyers.
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Eilish_Maura
Guest
One page long policy.
Really prepares someone to be aware of inappropriate behavior.
THAT is just CYA stuff – it does nothing to protect anyone, especially not youth.
The tools taught in VIRTUS can translate to any situation - not so with BSA program or any of the older ‘policy’ driven programs.
Really prepares someone to be aware of inappropriate behavior.
THAT is just CYA stuff – it does nothing to protect anyone, especially not youth.
The tools taught in VIRTUS can translate to any situation - not so with BSA program or any of the older ‘policy’ driven programs.
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puzzleannie
Guest
not required so I don’t do it.Have you got any feedback on the monthly Websites. After about15 or 20 I simply stopped doing them. They in my opinion drifted away from their primary purpose.
takes all my time to do mandatory training and reporting required by dioceses of PGC and Touching Safety.
for the record, because I did not expect it, when the program started, and having now presented the training about 40 times, I am astounded at the number of new volunteers who state they have never heard this info, which seems to be ordinary common sense, including some who claim to have had similar training through their day jobs.
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Abigail
Guest
I attended the VIRTUS training and found it to be basic, common sense stuff. It focuses on identifying abusers before they are able to hurt children. While that sounds reasonable, it’s a lot more difficult than it sounds.
The problem is that abusers are usually VERY good at gaining the trust of parents and those in authority. They make friends with children and swear them to secrecy. Even after an abuser is caught and convicted, people will continue to defend and support them, and refuse to believe what they did, because they seemed so “nice.”
Unfortunately, until an abuser is caught in the act, all the suspect actions discussed in VIRTUS are simply suspicions. Without proof, someone who accuses an abuser can be opening themselves up to a lawsuit for slander, or to being shunned in their parish. If the abuser has ingratiated himself with enough people who have enough power, which is what they try to do and are frequently very successful at, the abuser will be protected. Which is what started the whole crisis in the first place.
I don’t know that there’s a solution to this, but I do know that it’s a whole lot more complicated than reporting “red flags” and expecting someone will do something. It’s a “he said, she said,” with a well-meaning person up against an expert at deceit and manipulation. Not hard to see why abusers get away with it.
The problem is that abusers are usually VERY good at gaining the trust of parents and those in authority. They make friends with children and swear them to secrecy. Even after an abuser is caught and convicted, people will continue to defend and support them, and refuse to believe what they did, because they seemed so “nice.”
Unfortunately, until an abuser is caught in the act, all the suspect actions discussed in VIRTUS are simply suspicions. Without proof, someone who accuses an abuser can be opening themselves up to a lawsuit for slander, or to being shunned in their parish. If the abuser has ingratiated himself with enough people who have enough power, which is what they try to do and are frequently very successful at, the abuser will be protected. Which is what started the whole crisis in the first place.
I don’t know that there’s a solution to this, but I do know that it’s a whole lot more complicated than reporting “red flags” and expecting someone will do something. It’s a “he said, she said,” with a well-meaning person up against an expert at deceit and manipulation. Not hard to see why abusers get away with it.
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ABostonCatholic
Guest
Perhaps, too, for some more astute viewers, VIRTUS could teach some otherwise innocent people what not to do. In other words, someone might want to be alone with children for innocent purposes, but when they see that as the biggest warning sign, it’ll hopefully click in their heads that they need to stop their behavior lest they become falsely accused of something.I attended the VIRTUS training and found it to be basic, common sense stuff. It focuses on identifying abusers before they are able to hurt children. While that sounds reasonable, it’s a lot more difficult than it sounds.
The problem is that abusers are usually VERY good at gaining the trust of parents and those in authority. They make friends with children and swear them to secrecy. Even after an abuser is caught and convicted, people will continue to defend and support them, and refuse to believe what they did, because they seemed so “nice.”
Unfortunately, until an abuser is caught in the act, all the suspect actions discussed in VIRTUS are simply suspicions. Without proof, someone who accuses an abuser can be opening themselves up to a lawsuit for slander, or to being shunned in their parish. If the abuser has ingratiated himself with enough people who have enough power, which is what they try to do and are frequently very successful at, the abuser will be protected. Which is what started the whole crisis in the first place.
I don’t know that there’s a solution to this, but I do know that it’s a whole lot more complicated than reporting “red flags” and expecting someone will do something. It’s a “he said, she said,” with a well-meaning person up against an expert at deceit and manipulation. Not hard to see why abusers get away with it.
Also, I think some people on this board are forgetting the old saying that “common sense ain’t that common.”
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Sr_Sally
Guest
We had to be fingerprinted, go through a background check, etc, etc. I also found the training common sense, but what they emphasized was how those of us who would not harm a child need to change our behavior–for example, the no wrestling rule. That clears the ‘white noise’ and makes the behavior of those who are out to harm children stand out a little more. Hopefully, an environment like that would be enough of a deterrent.
And of course, we need to alsways pray–for protection for our children and all the children in our parishes, and also for the turning away from sin of those who are out to harm children.
And of course, we need to alsways pray–for protection for our children and all the children in our parishes, and also for the turning away from sin of those who are out to harm children.
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puzzleannie
Guest
the point of virtus is also to teach those responsible for children how to conduct themselves and their programs to protect children, and also to protect themselves, from being in situations which allow or faciliate abuse. Again things which I thought would be no-brainers always come as news to many participants.
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Dismas2004
Guest
I like the idea behind VIRTUS, however I have some serious grave reservations. My thoughts…
This bishop’s “political” decision to show how open they were and how they were not going to hide anything anymore, and thus allow the media into their proceeding in Dallas did one thing. It allowed the media to take the reigns of the Church from the Pope and let the media have them. Now Bishop’s everywhere are scared to do the right thing in favor not rocking the boat.
We all have a calling within, but when we fail to listen to it out of fear, we let Christ slip away from us and forget the words of JP II the Great, “Be Not Afraid!”
Will you write your Bishop and let him know that VIRTUS is a step in the right direction, but making it a broad blanket of prejudice against those who have made poor choices and hence been transformed by grace speaks nothing of Christ, but of man.
- I like the idea of being proactive and spotting those who would harm another.
- We must limit this to just sex offenders. There are those who take advantage of people for other reasons, like financial.
- Making VIRTUS mandatory for work in the Church has had some very negative consequences…
Did you know that you may not volunteer for the Church if you have been convicted of any crime, even if it is not sex related or involved kids? - The last points contradicts what we believe to be true, that is, that the Grace of Christ can convert our hearts and transform our lives into a new creation.
This bishop’s “political” decision to show how open they were and how they were not going to hide anything anymore, and thus allow the media into their proceeding in Dallas did one thing. It allowed the media to take the reigns of the Church from the Pope and let the media have them. Now Bishop’s everywhere are scared to do the right thing in favor not rocking the boat.
We all have a calling within, but when we fail to listen to it out of fear, we let Christ slip away from us and forget the words of JP II the Great, “Be Not Afraid!”
Will you write your Bishop and let him know that VIRTUS is a step in the right direction, but making it a broad blanket of prejudice against those who have made poor choices and hence been transformed by grace speaks nothing of Christ, but of man.
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Phemie
Guest
My teen years would have been much poorer if VIRTUS had been in place. The English/drama teacher whose shoulder I cried on more times than I care to remember would never have allowed himself to be in the position to help me with my problems. There was NEVER any untoward behaviour on his part. We were all friends with him AND his wife, who had to be the most understanding woman on the planet. I babysat their kids and spent many hours in their home.
He was just a dedicated teacher who wanted nothing but the best for his students. Sad that, because of what had happened in the world in the intervening years, by the time he ended his career some 25 years later his last students weren’t as lucky as his first students.
He was just a dedicated teacher who wanted nothing but the best for his students. Sad that, because of what had happened in the world in the intervening years, by the time he ended his career some 25 years later his last students weren’t as lucky as his first students.
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ClodialG
Guest
Okay, so first, I think I should give a quick background on myself, I’m 18 years old, a game developer, tech evangelist, and I’m agnostic. Yes, I said I’m agnostic.
That being said, I attended a virtus training last week, not to bash it or anything, but for a youth group I partake in. Now, I noticed one thing, one MAJOR thing that I, because I was afraid of getting my own ideas getting knocked down without even another thought by everyone else in the room, was when they talked about “monitoring programs.”
Does the idea make sense? Yes, it does. You don’t want your kids near dangerous people so you make sure they don’t talk to potentially dangerous people. But, at what lengths will people go for this sense of security? What grinded my gears that night was how the coordinators EMPHASIZED how parents should take away educational opportunities away from their children. What is that educational opportunity? The Computer.
I understand why a parent would monitor their child’s facebook accounts and it makes sense for a parent to make sure that their child isn’t making a fool of him/herself on youtube but what I’ve realized from the numerous ted talks to being a computer programmer for roughly 4 years with a little background in music composition, graphic design, web design, journalistic writing, and communicating on a computer.
I realized that parents and children have to understand the importance and power of the computer.
I mean, we live in an age where demonstrations can happen with just a single text message. We live in an age where communist countries fall to the power of the people (China). We live in an age where CHILDREN, yes, NINE YEAR OLDS, EIGHT YEAR OLDS, and even SEVEN YEAR OLDS are able to start their own companies. Why? because their parents fostered their abilities to be creative, to INNOVATE, to INVENT. Hell, a kid with asperger’s expanded Einstein’s Theory of Relativity, went to college at 12, and is trying to disprove the big bang theory. Kids have power, nowadays, unseen from the last generation.
So, what could happen when a parent takes away a child’s ability to create and explore? They can’t find their passions, they can’t follow their dreams, they can’t be the next Gandhis, the MLK’s, they can’t because they can’t explore new horizons, new opportunities.
I know this sounds extreme, but this is a really good possibility of the effects of removing what is essentially the entire world away from the creative mind of a child.
What has to happen is that parents have to EDUCATE their children about what computers are capable of. I mean, when I first opened up realBASIC when I was in my junior year of high school and got my terrible terrible emac to spit out “Hello World!”, that was just, one of the most freeing points of my life. Educating a child to use a computer for things OTHER THAN GAMES AND SOCIAL MEDIA can create new nobel prize winners, people capable of actually making a difference in the world. If parents, educators, or adults have to monitor a child’s computer use, how will anyone want to create and express themselves if they’re constantly going to be judged and watched for everything they do?
Like, I didn’t want to post this, I didn’t even have enough courage to say this, yesterday. But, even though I didn’t speak my mind yesterday, I just want to say that Virtus training seminars have to relook their stance on technology. I want to live in a world with those Autistic math prodigies who found a way to beat Einstein. I want to try the apps made by 6th graders for the ipad. I want to see a better world created by the hands of innovation of invention and taking away that ability from kids is but a sad loss for humanity as a whole.
So, how should parents, educators, and guardians, how should they try to EDUCATE the endless possibilities of the computer? They learn next to them. I mean, I wish my dad said, “Hey, wanna spend this weekend making a video game together?” but that never happened. I was just lucky that my parents realized the endless possibilities there are for technology when I started making video games.
What parents also have to realize, that if they want to establish a trust with their children to want to tell them that something wrong is happening to them, they have to trust their kids. Teach them the wrongs of the internet. Teach them new ways to use a computer. But NEVER should they take away any creative mind’s right to re-invent the world. Something I wish my parents didn’t do to my sister. Now, she doesn’t know what she wants to do with her life, because she didn’t explore what’s going on in other countries. She didn’t know that you can write that next “Harry Potter”. She didn’t know that you can compose the next “Baba Yetu”. She didn’t know that you can make the next “Bastion”. She didn’t know that you can solve difficult DNA sequences. She didn’t know because she wasn’t given the chance, where as I, (Okay, so my sister actually isn’t restricted and because of it, she’s become a really good guitarist) I’m a writer. I write articles for a good 10,000 people to read how everything has the opportunity to give people ideas to create a better world. I make games that describe struggles in life. I have a chance to express my ideas.
You can bash me for my opinions, I don’t mind. I mean, I didn’t even have the courage to say this at my Virtus Training. But, I just had to say it somewhere. Oh, and if you are a Virtus coordinator, please, look at a computer. Open up Microsoft Word. Open up Microsoft Powerpoint. Open up MS Paint. Open up Command Prompt. Hell, if you have a spare computer, open it up and look inside. Just think of the possibilities.
That being said, I attended a virtus training last week, not to bash it or anything, but for a youth group I partake in. Now, I noticed one thing, one MAJOR thing that I, because I was afraid of getting my own ideas getting knocked down without even another thought by everyone else in the room, was when they talked about “monitoring programs.”
Does the idea make sense? Yes, it does. You don’t want your kids near dangerous people so you make sure they don’t talk to potentially dangerous people. But, at what lengths will people go for this sense of security? What grinded my gears that night was how the coordinators EMPHASIZED how parents should take away educational opportunities away from their children. What is that educational opportunity? The Computer.
I understand why a parent would monitor their child’s facebook accounts and it makes sense for a parent to make sure that their child isn’t making a fool of him/herself on youtube but what I’ve realized from the numerous ted talks to being a computer programmer for roughly 4 years with a little background in music composition, graphic design, web design, journalistic writing, and communicating on a computer.
I realized that parents and children have to understand the importance and power of the computer.
I mean, we live in an age where demonstrations can happen with just a single text message. We live in an age where communist countries fall to the power of the people (China). We live in an age where CHILDREN, yes, NINE YEAR OLDS, EIGHT YEAR OLDS, and even SEVEN YEAR OLDS are able to start their own companies. Why? because their parents fostered their abilities to be creative, to INNOVATE, to INVENT. Hell, a kid with asperger’s expanded Einstein’s Theory of Relativity, went to college at 12, and is trying to disprove the big bang theory. Kids have power, nowadays, unseen from the last generation.
So, what could happen when a parent takes away a child’s ability to create and explore? They can’t find their passions, they can’t follow their dreams, they can’t be the next Gandhis, the MLK’s, they can’t because they can’t explore new horizons, new opportunities.
I know this sounds extreme, but this is a really good possibility of the effects of removing what is essentially the entire world away from the creative mind of a child.
What has to happen is that parents have to EDUCATE their children about what computers are capable of. I mean, when I first opened up realBASIC when I was in my junior year of high school and got my terrible terrible emac to spit out “Hello World!”, that was just, one of the most freeing points of my life. Educating a child to use a computer for things OTHER THAN GAMES AND SOCIAL MEDIA can create new nobel prize winners, people capable of actually making a difference in the world. If parents, educators, or adults have to monitor a child’s computer use, how will anyone want to create and express themselves if they’re constantly going to be judged and watched for everything they do?
Like, I didn’t want to post this, I didn’t even have enough courage to say this, yesterday. But, even though I didn’t speak my mind yesterday, I just want to say that Virtus training seminars have to relook their stance on technology. I want to live in a world with those Autistic math prodigies who found a way to beat Einstein. I want to try the apps made by 6th graders for the ipad. I want to see a better world created by the hands of innovation of invention and taking away that ability from kids is but a sad loss for humanity as a whole.
So, how should parents, educators, and guardians, how should they try to EDUCATE the endless possibilities of the computer? They learn next to them. I mean, I wish my dad said, “Hey, wanna spend this weekend making a video game together?” but that never happened. I was just lucky that my parents realized the endless possibilities there are for technology when I started making video games.
What parents also have to realize, that if they want to establish a trust with their children to want to tell them that something wrong is happening to them, they have to trust their kids. Teach them the wrongs of the internet. Teach them new ways to use a computer. But NEVER should they take away any creative mind’s right to re-invent the world. Something I wish my parents didn’t do to my sister. Now, she doesn’t know what she wants to do with her life, because she didn’t explore what’s going on in other countries. She didn’t know that you can write that next “Harry Potter”. She didn’t know that you can compose the next “Baba Yetu”. She didn’t know that you can make the next “Bastion”. She didn’t know that you can solve difficult DNA sequences. She didn’t know because she wasn’t given the chance, where as I, (Okay, so my sister actually isn’t restricted and because of it, she’s become a really good guitarist) I’m a writer. I write articles for a good 10,000 people to read how everything has the opportunity to give people ideas to create a better world. I make games that describe struggles in life. I have a chance to express my ideas.
You can bash me for my opinions, I don’t mind. I mean, I didn’t even have the courage to say this at my Virtus Training. But, I just had to say it somewhere. Oh, and if you are a Virtus coordinator, please, look at a computer. Open up Microsoft Word. Open up Microsoft Powerpoint. Open up MS Paint. Open up Command Prompt. Hell, if you have a spare computer, open it up and look inside. Just think of the possibilities.
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